It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103292 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Since: Dec 10

North Adelaide, Australia

#103479 Apr 4, 2013
R-12 Freon wrote:
<quoted text>
None of it is nonsense.
I'm using my guns to protect my family and myself from those that will do direct and immediate harm to myself or family.
A: You are not being prevented from doing that so why do you keep going on about it.
You know the criminal element in both Co & CT are small compared to the law abiding and decent responsible citizens of those states.
Stronger restrictions will mostly affect them and their ability to protect their families. Criminals don't obey the law so really this legislation does Nothing to stop 98% of the Real gun violence (the criminal). In fact it's counter productive being that Now the good guy, who obey's the law has more hurdles to jump to protect himself.
Why are you so much for letting real criminals off the hook and so against letting the good guys defend themselves from it?
A: I am for strong laws being enforced, be it against criminals or gun control....you can't have one without the other, and the argument that your country is having, is to get rid of assault guns for a safer community, so why are you against that? it is not like you don't still have plenty of other guns to chose from and they will kill, which is what you want....just not en masse like a an assault weapon...
Vizhnu

Chandigarh, India

#103480 Apr 4, 2013
Sometimes when I am in Australia and I need to go to the bathroom, I just stop and do a big smelly bum-nugget on the footpath.

Since: Dec 10

North Adelaide, Australia

#103481 Apr 5, 2013
DavidQ762 wrote:
<quoted text>
It's simple really. It's because misery loves company. They lose touch with REALITY and try to make life suit them. Which of course will NEVER happen. They live under the delusion that papa-gov will provide all of the security they need. And then cold, hard FACT hits them. And they are left being shivering denizens, wondering what happened....
In part yes we believe the government should protect us after all we are giving a good portion of our weekly fortnightly or monthly wages to ensure that the government delves it out in a responsible way......that is how social democracy works....saves us the trouble...and we assist with alarms and security doors, gates etc...and you don't have to be scared of lunatics waving all those guns around...funny how that works for us...and our kids can go to school with safety and without the need for armed guards or metal detectors, as we would never support the NRA thinking for us.....we as you can see have our own brains...and we recognise bullshit like the type the NRA .
propaganda machine sell you hicks coming a feckin' mile a way....

Since: Dec 10

North Adelaide, Australia

#103482 Apr 5, 2013
Vizhnu wrote:
Sometimes when I am in Australia and I need to go to the bathroom, I just stop and do a big smelly bum-nugget on the footpath.
And then go home and rape and murder educated young women trying to get home....onyer shit stick.
konnon

Pittsburgh, PA

#103483 Apr 5, 2013
youtube.com/watch... …………
Excuse Again? Its the Humans the Guns are Harmless

“Topix is lowlife scum with no”

Since: Jun 12

respect for anyone...

#103484 Apr 5, 2013
konnon wrote:
youtube.com/watch?v=i_QjjFEZpo 4 …………
Excuse Again? Its the Humans the Guns are Harmless
I guess I must be missing something but I've watched that video 2 or 3 times now, is that guy supposed to be funny?

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#103485 Apr 5, 2013
Been 6 YEARS NOW!!!. I have a real bad feeling that this thread is going to out live me!

Jasbir Singh

Nedlands, Australia

#103486 Apr 5, 2013
Pessimist wrote:
<quoted text>
How does having the Queens head on our coins make us “prisoners” have you nothing better than that?
Because we arent a republic you knob...
FYI

Denver, CO

#103487 Apr 5, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
Isn't it hilarious that when the libturds can't come back with a response of any substance, they come back with the old tried and sad ad hominem penis attack. LMAO!!!(Straight out of the libturd playbook.)
"AGREED"BE WELL MY FRIEND, Regards
GoGoBar

Thailand

#103488 Apr 5, 2013
12,ooo murders per year

225 Justifiable Homicide by Firearm (Self Defense)

Damn those gun Corporations are slipperier than a Tobacco Supplier.

It is a good thing the people have the first ammendment or the Corporations could make citizens buy anything.. Forever!
british oppression

Australia

#103492 Apr 5, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
How does that solve the problem Americans have with an over use of guns that are not necessary where is the logic? It shows how clearly it is imbedded in your pshyche to continue to believe you are being put upon even by a simple and reasonable aim for reducing assault weapons to limit the deaths incurred by them....you are no hoppers and clearly want to live in a country dominated by the gun and not common sense....else these weapons would be dumped in a crushing machine by any lengths of the imagination of saner countries....Those who live by the sword die by the sword and it couldn't happen to a better country. LOL
1. Taxation Without Representation
To fund its military projects, and to assert its control over an increasingly independent group of colonies, Britain began to enforce painfully high taxes and tariffs on such goods as molasses, paper, sugar, and tea. With no representation in Parliament, American colonists who felt the taxes to be excessive had no recourse other than civil disobedience.
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2. No Free Trade
During the 18th century, Britain was an empire in competition, sometimes militarily and sometimes economically, with other empires. In order to prevent other nations from benefitting from the North American colonial market, Britain brought its navy to bear against U.S. attempts to purchase non-British goods. Given the prohibitively high trade tarrifs enforced by Britain (see below), this policy was for all practical purposes unenforceable.
3. Unlimited Search and Seizure
To discourage smuggling, the British government awarded Writs of Assistance to British officers in the colonies. The Writs gave officers the power to search any residence or building, without warning or supervision, and to confiscate whatever they deemed to be smuggled or otherwise improperly obtained goods. This widely abused policy would ultimately inspire the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
4. Destruction of Colonial Government
The governments of the colonies, unrepresented in the British system and remote from the imperial legislative process, began to create their own elected bodies. The British government did not care for this idea, and took extra measures to see to it that local elected colonial government did not achieve autonomy, even with respect to matters that did not directly affect the larger British Empire.
5. Oppression of Political Protesters
As colonial protest against British government became more common, British colonial law enforcement authorities took measures to crack down on dissent. Among the more infamous examples of this were the 1769 imprisonment of Alexander McDougall (on "libel" charges) for his work To the Betrayed Inhabitants of the City and Colony of New York, and the 1770 Boston Massacre in which British troops fired on a crowd of colonial protesters, killing five
6. Immunity for Corrupt and Abusive British Officers
The Boston Massacre trial was an interesting spectacle. Eight British soldiers were accused, but defended by the future president John Adams, who won acquittal for six of the eight and the equivalent to a dishonorable discharge for the other two. Still, British leaders were concerned enough to pass a law mandating that any British officers accused of an offense be tried in England (where witnesses would be hard to find) rather than in the colonies.
7. Direct Control of the Criminal Justice System
Over a period of decades, as distrust of colonial authorities grew, the British government began to deny jury trials
colt45

Australia

#103494 Apr 5, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
It is reminiscent of the NRA and supporters chant (it's not the guns) they have nothing to support their argument so they chant nonsense and propaganda........yada,yada,ya da, yuk yuk.
DOWN WITH THE NRA....DOWN WITH THE NRA....DOWN WITH THE NRA......
Many international treaties may well be NULL AND VOID! That’s right, under international law, the governments of Australia, New Zealand and Canada don't have any legitimate authority to govern the inhabitants of those countries and their parliaments hold no lawful rights to represent Independent Sovereign Nations.
The questions for you are: What are their representatives doing in the Solomon Islands and what authority do they have to be here?
It seems fantasy is not confined to the pages of fairy tales. An essential component of all fiction is that the story is essentially false - a lie as it were - but depicted in such a way as to capture the imagination of the audience, sweeping them into a world of make believe as they observe, spellbound by the complexities of the storyline.
It’s about time your blindfolds were removed to allow you to see the truth and after reading this article, anyone that continues to allow this massive fraud and deception becomes a guilty party to it!
At this point, you will want me to prove these claims and ask if I have any proof. The answer is YES I DO and the proof is easily accessible to you all. The following information will relate predominantly to Australia, but what has to be remembered, is that New Zealand and Canada are also in the exact same position.
colt45

Australia

#103495 Apr 5, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
None of it is nonsense.
I'm using my guns to protect my family and myself from those that will do direct and immediate harm to myself or family.
A: You are not being prevented from doing that so why do you keep going on about it.
You know the criminal element in both Co & CT are small compared to the law abiding and decent responsible citizens of those states.
Stronger restrictions will mostly affect them and their ability to protect their families. Criminals don't obey the law so really this legislation does Nothing to stop 98% of the Real gun violence (the criminal). In fact it's counter productive being that Now the good guy, who obey's the law has more hurdles to jump to protect himself.
Why are you so much for letting real criminals off the hook and so against letting the good guys defend themselves from it?
A: I am for strong laws being enforced, be it against criminals or gun control....you can't have one without the other, and the argument that your country is having, is to get rid of assault guns for a safer community, so why are you against that? it is not like you don't still have plenty of other guns to chose from and they will kill, which is what you want....just not en masse like a an assault weapon...
Whilst the Japanese government is fully aware that the Australian government can't prove the Commonwealth of Australia is a nation it knows it has nothing to fear from that government's threat to take its anti-whaling case to the International Court of Justice. This year Australia's Antarctic waters will run blood-red again! The American government has scientists searching for natural resources on the Antarctic territories of Australia and New Zealand because those territories were given by the United Nations and neither country can prove it has the national standing (locus standi) to enforce its territorial rights!

Meanwhile, low calibre, spineless Australian politicians like Dr. Bob Brown, Parliamentary Leader of the Australian Greens would rather maintain the illusion of Australia's sovereignty, obtain his salary and protect his superannuation than do anything realistic to stop Japanese whaling in 'Australian' Antarctic waters. Likewise all of Australia's posturing, self-centred parliamentarians, before they can take their parliamentary seats, must take an oath or affirmation to a foreign monarch appointed by a foreign parliament half a world away in Westminster! This is mandatory and specified in 'their' constitution (see: section 42 Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act, 1900).

But it gets worse – a whole lot worse. On the 11th of August, 2003 the 24th Governor-General to Australia, Major General Philip Michael Jeffery AC, CVO, MC was appointed to his position by a forged instrument. We know this because we were told by Baron Falconer, who at the time was British Lord Chancellor. Apparently an out of date Royal Seal was used and the public record clearly shows that Queen Elizabeth II wasn't anywhere near the place of signing as specified on the face of Jeffery's Appointment document! See: the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act, 1981 (UK).

Further to the subject of Governor Generals – as there have been no legitimate appointments in that regard, did Australian Governor-General Kerr have any authority to sack the Whitlam Government in February 1975?- He ‘allegedly’ received his first pay-off of $US200, 000.00 credited to his account number 767748 at the Singapore branch of the Nugan Hand Bank In December 1974, to do just that!

Since: Dec 10

North Adelaide, Australia

#103496 Apr 5, 2013
colt45 wrote:
<quoted text>
Whilst the Japanese government is fully aware that the Australian government can't prove the Commonwealth of Australia is a nation it knows it has nothing to fear from that government's threat to take its anti-whaling case to the International Court of Justice. This year Australia's Antarctic waters will run blood-red again! The American government has scientists searching for natural resources on the Antarctic territories of Australia and New Zealand because those territories were given by the United Nations and neither country can prove it has the national standing (locus standi) to enforce its territorial rights!
Meanwhile, low calibre, spineless Australian politicians like Dr. Bob Brown, Parliamentary Leader of the Australian Greens would rather maintain the illusion of Australia's sovereignty, obtain his salary and protect his superannuation than do anything realistic to stop Japanese whaling in 'Australian' Antarctic waters. Likewise all of Australia's posturing, self-centred parliamentarians, before they can take their parliamentary seats, must take an oath or affirmation to a foreign monarch appointed by a foreign parliament half a world away in Westminster! This is mandatory and specified in 'their' constitution (see: section 42 Commonwealth of Australia Constitution Act, 1900).
But it gets worse – a whole lot worse. On the 11th of August, 2003 the 24th Governor-General to Australia, Major General Philip Michael Jeffery AC, CVO, MC was appointed to his position by a forged instrument. We know this because we were told by Baron Falconer, who at the time was British Lord Chancellor. Apparently an out of date Royal Seal was used and the public record clearly shows that Queen Elizabeth II wasn't anywhere near the place of signing as specified on the face of Jeffery's Appointment document! See: the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act, 1981 (UK).
Further to the subject of Governor Generals – as there have been no legitimate appointments in that regard, did Australian Governor-General Kerr have any authority to sack the Whitlam Government in February 1975?- He ‘allegedly’ received his first pay-off of $US200, 000.00 credited to his account number 767748 at the Singapore branch of the Nugan Hand Bank In December 1974, to do just that!
Australia was started as a penal colony so nothing phases us.....and look where we are!...We have one of the strongest economies in the world, outdoing countries like the US, UK, Italy, we dodged the global crisis and we are happy because we can speak our minds freely and don't need guns to do it for us, we take everything in our stride....it's all good.

Since: Dec 10

North Adelaide, Australia

#103497 Apr 5, 2013
colt45 wrote:
<quoted text>Many international treaties may well be NULL AND VOID! That’s right, under international law, the governments of Australia, New Zealand and Canada don't have any legitimate authority to govern the inhabitants of those countries and their parliaments hold no lawful rights to represent Independent Sovereign Nations.
The questions for you are: What are their representatives doing in the Solomon Islands and what authority do they have to be here?
It seems fantasy is not confined to the pages of fairy tales. An essential component of all fiction is that the story is essentially false - a lie as it were - but depicted in such a way as to capture the imagination of the audience, sweeping them into a world of make believe as they observe, spellbound by the complexities of the storyline.
It’s about time your blindfolds were removed to allow you to see the truth and after reading this article, anyone that continues to allow this massive fraud and deception becomes a guilty party to it!
At this point, you will want me to prove these claims and ask if I have any proof. The answer is YES I DO and the proof is easily accessible to you all. The following information will relate predominantly to Australia, but what has to be remembered, is that New Zealand and Canada are also in the exact same position.
Well what ever they are doing it is working better than most of the other countries...maybe those countries that are suffering from the global crisis should give our form of governing a go...couldn't hurt and by all accounts it works.Try it.

Since: Dec 10

North Adelaide, Australia

#103498 Apr 5, 2013
british oppression wrote:
<quoted text>1. Taxation Without Representation
To fund its military projects, and to assert its control over an increasingly independent group of colonies, Britain began to enforce painfully high taxes and tariffs on such goods as molasses, paper, sugar, and tea. With no representation in Parliament, American colonists who felt the taxes to be excessive had no recourse other than civil disobedience.
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2. No Free Trade
During the 18th century, Britain was an empire in competition, sometimes militarily and sometimes economically, with other empires. In order to prevent other nations from benefitting from the North American colonial market, Britain brought its navy to bear against U.S. attempts to purchase non-British goods. Given the prohibitively high trade tarrifs enforced by Britain (see below), this policy was for all practical purposes unenforceable.
3. Unlimited Search and Seizure
To discourage smuggling, the British government awarded Writs of Assistance to British officers in the colonies. The Writs gave officers the power to search any residence or building, without warning or supervision, and to confiscate whatever they deemed to be smuggled or otherwise improperly obtained goods. This widely abused policy would ultimately inspire the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.
4. Destruction of Colonial Government
The governments of the colonies, unrepresented in the British system and remote from the imperial legislative process, began to create their own elected bodies. The British government did not care for this idea, and took extra measures to see to it that local elected colonial government did not achieve autonomy, even with respect to matters that did not directly affect the larger British Empire.
5. Oppression of Political Protesters
As colonial protest against British government became more common, British colonial law enforcement authorities took measures to crack down on dissent. Among the more infamous examples of this were the 1769 imprisonment of Alexander McDougall (on "libel" charges) for his work To the Betrayed Inhabitants of the City and Colony of New York, and the 1770 Boston Massacre in which British troops fired on a crowd of colonial protesters, killing five
6. Immunity for Corrupt and Abusive British Officers
The Boston Massacre trial was an interesting spectacle. Eight British soldiers were accused, but defended by the future president John Adams, who won acquittal for six of the eight and the equivalent to a dishonorable discharge for the other two. Still, British leaders were concerned enough to pass a law mandating that any British officers accused of an offense be tried in England (where witnesses would be hard to find) rather than in the colonies.
7. Direct Control of the Criminal Justice System
Over a period of decades, as distrust of colonial authorities grew, the British government began to deny jury trials
The point is Britain was a force to be reckoned with and if they hadn't done it, someone else would (and before she became strong) others did, Britain have since relinquished their hold on most of their colonies so they are no longer the force they were, but we, like America, Canada etc should be grateful for their bravery because if it weren't for the British colonisation Anglo's would never have lived and triumphed in such beautiful places....
Spocko

Oakland, CA

#103499 Apr 5, 2013
DavidQ762 wrote:
<quoted text>
Not quite, DOLT. And those 'restrictions' in Colorado and Connecticut are sure to be contested in court.
It doesn't matter what >you< [supposedly]'think'. Your 'opinion' is of ZERO consequence to me.
Clearly your life is truly a comedy of errors, you really think anyone is going to listen to friggen buffoons like you? Now that some rightwing school districts are falsifying records, whom can we believe? Perhaps schools ought to return to more useful studies such as reading, writing and arithmetic or how about defensive driving?
When will the National Rifler fanatics acknowledge that the 2nd amendment originated when our weapon of choice was a single-shot muzzle-loader vs. the bow and arrow. So what’s next after AKRs… a mortar in every garage?
And now we could have local police training teachers to use pistols to defend our students. Wow – what a country! Studies have shown that the average law enforcer is far from an accurate shot let alone a peace-loving teacher. We already knew he was too old and overweight to catch a fleeing teen-ager. Seems to me we need some sensible thinking to counter the gun manufacturers or do we really think the NRA blowhards are some sort of neutral and unbiased party to be trusted?
Since Sandy Hook there have been about 1,280 gun deaths in the United States. Among the top 23 developed countries, the United States has 80 percent of all deaths by guns; 86 percent of all women killed with guns are in the United States and 87 percent of all children killed with guns are in the United States. A few years ago people got fed up with all the deaths by drunk drivers, and we now have sensible laws that have saved countless lives. And, I’m almost certain to realize that bars and liquor stores have not gone out of business. Sensible laws on guns are badly needed, replacing the hotchpotch of useless gun laws that we have now! What we don’t need are fools like you and your ilk trying to turn us into a society where it’s every man for himself and the guys with the biggest and baddest gun makes all the rules.
Proud Misogynist

Lara, Australia

#103500 Apr 5, 2013
STFU you f*cking idiots!

If you wanna chat about this stupid american sh*t, then go chat on an american forum!

100,000 posts about this stupid sh*t? Are you serious?!

MEN > women

“Topix is lowlife scum with no”

Since: Jun 12

respect for anyone...

#103501 Apr 5, 2013
Proud Misogynist wrote:
STFU you f*cking idiots!
If you wanna chat about this stupid american sh*t, then go chat on an american forum!
100,000 posts about this stupid sh*t? Are you serious?!
MEN > women
It's a general thread, whacko.
It shows up in the Australian, American & possibly other Topix subforums.
Teaman

Abingdon, VA

#103502 Apr 5, 2013
Spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Clearly your life is truly a comedy of errors, you really think anyone is going to listen to friggen buffoons like you? Now that some rightwing school districts are falsifying records, whom can we believe? Perhaps schools ought to return to more useful studies such as reading, writing and arithmetic or how about defensive driving?
When will the National Rifler fanatics acknowledge that the 2nd amendment originated when our weapon of choice was a single-shot muzzle-loader vs. the bow and arrow. So what’s next after AKRs… a mortar in every garage?
And now we could have local police training teachers to use pistols to defend our students. Wow – what a country! Studies have shown that the average law enforcer is far from an accurate shot let alone a peace-loving teacher. We already knew he was too old and overweight to catch a fleeing teen-ager. Seems to me we need some sensible thinking to counter the gun manufacturers or do we really think the NRA blowhards are some sort of neutral and unbiased party to be trusted?
Since Sandy Hook there have been about 1,280 gun deaths in the United States. Among the top 23 developed countries, the United States has 80 percent of all deaths by guns; 86 percent of all women killed with guns are in the United States and 87 percent of all children killed with guns are in the United States. A few years ago people got fed up with all the deaths by drunk drivers, and we now have sensible laws that have saved countless lives. And, I’m almost certain to realize that bars and liquor stores have not gone out of business. Sensible laws on guns are badly needed, replacing the hotchpotch of useless gun laws that we have now! What we don’t need are fools like you and your ilk trying to turn us into a society where it’s every man for himself and the guys with the biggest and baddest gun makes all the rules.
Right wing school districts!? You're too funny. Oh! because it's in Georgia you think it's right wing. For those out on the west coast, there's Atlanta and then there's Georgia all around it.

http://www.thenewamerican.com/usnews/item/149...

I'm not giving up my mortar for anyone.

Ya see, drunk driving incidents went down in numbers because of enhanced fines and sentencing. Not because they banned alcohol. Criminal control always works, not punishing law abiding people.

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