It's the Guns, Stupid

Apr 20, 2007 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Truthdig

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

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Chisinau, Moldova

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#103182
Mar 26, 2013
 

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This is what you get america for electing a black president.
What do you expect ? of course he was going to be useless.

America is just going to spiral further and further down the toilet in the future.

This is what you get for flooding your nation with blacks,indians, muslims and other low class immigrants.

Enjoy your future.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#103183
Mar 26, 2013
 

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Cyrano de Bee wrote:
<quoted text>
Waht for why Ahonama wantig guns ?Dob etter with sord chopchop like Cyrano haha
Bee look Topix
Learn to speaka da iglish betta Syrup!
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

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#103184
Mar 26, 2013
 
just an allusion wrote:
<quoted text>
Irrelevant to the current topic of discussion...There's been more than enough distractive, diversionary BS in this discussion already, sheesh!


You asked but apparently didn't want an answer. Weird.
downhill246

Boca Raton, FL

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#103185
Mar 26, 2013
 
just an allusion wrote:
<quoted text>
NO ONE IS ARGUING AGAINST AN INDIVIDUALS' RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS!! NO ONE!!!
Why do you keep bringing it up?
The ONLY point of contention is whether or not anyone has any right, be it real or imagined, to possess/own ANY type of firearm...that is all.
Perhaps if you were to stop confusing the issue with innuendo, supposition and conjecture, we might actually be able to both realize some sort of progress in this debate...?
I get it that you THINK that you should be able to possess or own any type of firearm you'd like, I even understand that you THINK that the Constitution extends to you this perception of a right to own or possess any type of firearm that you like, but merely THINKING that you should doesn't lend any credence to the actuality/reality of the matter, nor will imposing your existentialistic ideology on the issue.
There are people out there in the World who THINK they should be allowed to rape other people, who THINK that they should be allowed to molest children, who THINK that they should be allowed to rob or murder people even, etc., etc., etc., ad infinitum, yet merely THINKING that one should be allowed to do or possess or own something does not stand to automatically confer any actual entitlement to the desire/want/possession/ownersh ip of such.
See what you get for thinking?
You may assume whatever you wish to assume while you bloviate but that still doesn't necessarily make your assumptions accurate. The fact that SCOTUS has declared that the 2nd Amendment secures an individual right has rather far reaching ramifications. SCOTUS has declared that the right to keep and bear arms is a fundamental right meaning any gun control legislation is now subject to strict review rather than rational review. Passing restrictive gun laws that can possibly endanger lives with unproven benefits will not pass court muster.As an example restricting law abiding citizens to a seven round magazine in NYS certainly puts the law abiding citizen at a disadvantage since the criminal who could care less about gun laws will still have his Glock with a fifteen round magazine. Attorney Alan Gura who has the Heller and McDonald victories under his belt said the new NYS gun laws are unconstitutional.

Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah) cited statistics showing that in nearly half of defensive firearm uses, there are two or more attackers, and in nearly 25 percent, there are three or more attackers.

Fordham Law Professor Johnson states that under the Supreme Court's decision in Heller, declaring the Second Amendment to protect a fundamental, individual right to keep and bear all bearable arms for defensive purposes, for gun-ban legislation to survive "requires something far more than simply rational basis. That is, it's not an automatic deference to whatever the legislature does, because now, what we're talking about is a constitutional right."

With that in mind we shall see which "responsible" gun laws survive constitutional challenges to our "fundamental"right to keep and bear arms.
Isn't thinking fun?
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

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#103186
Mar 26, 2013
 
just an allusion wrote:
<quoted text>
Then explain to me what you perceive to be "unconstitutional" about banning slavery and, following the "principle" of that answer, what you perceive to be "unconstitutional" about banning access by the general public-at-large to certain types of firearms for their own safety, you know, much like the Federal government imposed speed limitations, seat belt laws, and restricted the use of certain chemicals and toxins in our foodstuffs, and any number of other Federally-backed restrictions/limitations oriented towaeds, basically, protecting us from ourselves.
Although slavery was legal at the time of Dred Scott, that wasn't the point. The point was some states [ignored] federal laws mandating the return of slaves to their owners. I believe we were talking about states ignoring federal laws. That was the principle, a state ignoring a federal law.

I was living in Texas when the federal government imposed the 55mph law. The local highway patrol did not enforce them. This is a perfect example of a federal one size fits all law. While the interstates were posted at 55mph, the local back roads were posted at 75mph. That's right, interstate 55, two lane back road 75. The federal government is the dumbest thing ever. While we're at it, the federal government mandated the thermostats be set at 68 degrees at the time to save heating fuel. I recall the governor at the time calling people in Washington idiots, they want us to burn up our air conditioners. I read in the newspaper about odd and even fuel lines due to a gas shortage up north. I was getting a free car wash with a fill-up. LOL. No one can screw up things worse than the federal government.

Seat belt laws are state laws. Seat belts are voluntary in New Hampshire. Equipping vehicles with them are a federal standard set. Using them is something different.

Protecting us from toxins and chemicals in foodstuffs is one thing the federal government is supposed to do. It doesn't protect us from ourselves, it protects us against corporate fraud and misrepresentation.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

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#103187
Mar 26, 2013
 
just an allusion wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, and it was the whole reason for the Amendment because the suppression of some peoples' "inalienable...self evident" right to be treated as all others, given the all-too-obvious fact that "all men are created equal", was being violated by certain narrow-minded, small-brained, hate-mongering racists, though my point was that it is not solely up to the states to decide "social issues" as the Federal government has more than adequately been recognized as the leading authority in such matters.
<quoted text>
Got any proof of this, or is this just more anarchistic, anti-government propaganda?
<quoted text>
Actually the point is that, while a state CAN add rights that either supplement those set in place by the Constitution/the Federal government, none of those newly devised rights can neither supercede or circumvent the Federally defined outlines of said rights.
<quoted text>
As the highest court in the United States, whose roots are based in the inception of the United States their selves, that has ultimate appellate jurisdiction over ALL federal courts and over state court cases involving issues of federal law, and original jurisdiction over a small range of cases, we pretty much have always been, the only difference now/the reason for the animosity is that they're not deciding matters in YOUR favor...You cannot dispel the wisdom of ages merely because it doesn't coincide with/support your new world view of this or that matter.
Hey! Anarchist, if you don't like the US, why don't you leave it? if you really want to go, I can secure you a berth on the next cargo ship heading away from here for parts unknown.
I think the point was missed. The amendment was needed to overcome a supreme court decision (Dred Scott). Any supreme court decision can be overcome by an amendment by the states if you can get 38 of them to agree on something.

I don't know how in the world you get Anarchist. An Anarchist is essentially a communist as true communism is stateless. I am for a constitutionally limited federal government. A central power that controls the means of production and distribution of products and property is heading toward a form of fascism.

Wisdom of ages, now that's funny. LOL The wisdom of ages should tell us how great societies of the past collapsed.

Cargo ship? Naw. With the exception of two years in N. Carolina, I grew up in Germany. Texas sounds good right now. Most of the family moved to Georgia. I'll think about your suggestion.

During reconstruction, the southern states had to take a loyalty oath and ratify the 14th amendment to be readmitted into the union and congress. A threat of further military was made.

http://www.apstudent.com/ushistory/outline9.p...

http://countrystudies.us/united-states/histor...
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

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#103188
Mar 26, 2013
 

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just an allusion wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you're telling me that ALL guns are banned in New Jersey?
The point was New Jersey banned them. I wouldn't impose that on an Arizona rancher on the Mexican border.

This central power, force, and control, and I emphasize control, works for you, doesn't it.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

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#103189
Mar 26, 2013
 

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Spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
And unlike you, I also have a brain ...:-)
Sure you do. But when was the last time you actually used it for something besides keeping your ears from touching each other?

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

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#103190
Mar 26, 2013
 

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Ahomana wrote:
"Armed Veteran"
Luke 22:36
Now they didn't have firearms back then, but they did have swords, which were one of the "arms" of the day.
A: you are referencing passages from the bible that didn't apply to you or today...if it did you would probably still be slaves of the British master.....
A hell of a lot longer than someone who has been disarmed by their own willful ignorance.
A: People who only rely on guns to save their lives never last long, others that survive without them have stronger survival skills, they know how to talk their way out of a situation, calm a situation and trade their way out...so I doubt that a guy with a gun would come after me first he would want to get those that threaten him, and that would be you.
This coming from someone who lives on a penal colony. That's rich.
A: Yes we live on land that was originally a penal colony so we have had to deal with being downtrodden and have needed to effect our own survival, so we have evolved with these traits embedded in our genetic makeup, and that is what makes us strong and loyal to one another, it is called mate ship and it is the strongest force (militarily) that you can have, and we have it in spades...you on the other hand have always relied on numbers but with single mindedness you have been and are, aggressive and a bully, your prey is usually unarmed, under armed and under skilled and you don't balk at killing women, children or old men so you don't fight, you murder....Anyone can win with those ideals....We on the other hand seek and equal foe and don't harm innocents, because living on land that was once a penal colony you learn the value of all humanity....you yanks need a good dose.
And the above post just goes to prove you don't know WTF you are talking about. The firearm on my hip (when I choose to wear it) is NOT a go-to-it-first weapon. It is ALWAYS the last resort. As the typical hoplophobe you are, when you see a gun, all you see is aggression. My firearms are DEFENSIVE WEAPONS ONLY. They are there for when the talking stops and the bad guys get aggressive, or especially if they skip right past the talking part.

So tell the group, aussie....what are you going to do when you CAN'T talk your way out of a situation or when the bad guys simply have no interest in talking at all. Call the authorities and PRAY they get there in time???

As far as the rest of your post goes...I'm not sure who the "you" is in that, but it is definitely NOT me. And I will leave you with this bit of advice: If you ever find yourself in a fair fight....your tactics suck. In other words...there is NO SUCH THING as a fair fight. If you want fair, put on some gloves and get into a ring with a referee, but that isn't life.
Good Aussies

Iceland

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#103191
Mar 26, 2013
 

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Tyrants, or those with criminal intent, are always afraid of people who have means of self defense.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#103195
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Armed Veteran wrote:
And the above post just goes to prove you don't know WTF you are talking about. The firearm on my hip (when I choose to wear it) is NOT a go-to-it-first weapon. It is ALWAYS the last resort. As the typical hoplophobe you are, when you see a gun, all you see is aggression. My firearms are DEFENSIVE WEAPONS ONLY. They are there for when the talking stops and the bad guys get aggressive, or especially if they skip right past the talking part.

A: When you buy a gun you do so as an act of aggression grandpa, not because you are a peace lover.
So tell the group, aussie....what are you going to do when you CAN'T talk your way out of a situation or when the bad guys simply have no interest in talking at all. Call the authorities and PRAY they get there in time???

A: Yes that is exactly what I will rely on, because the authorities will be more likely to protect me than you who has a gun?

As far as the rest of your post goes...I'm not sure who the "you" is in that, but it is definitely NOT me.

A: Never is!

And I will leave you with this bit of advice: If you ever find yourself in a fair fight....your tactics suck. In other words...there is NO SUCH THING as a fair fight. If you want fair, put on some gloves and get into a ring with a referee, but that isn't life.

A: Well there is obviously no such a thing as a fair fight to YOU, so foretold is forewarned, thanks.(and you say you are not aggressive?)...it's not like I believed you yanks ever fought fair in the first place(read prior post) it is our(the Aussie survival instinct that can recognise these basic facts and adapt accordingly)So we'll be right mate, you don't need to worry about little ole' us. LOL.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#103196
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
The point was New Jersey banned them. I wouldn't impose that on an Arizona rancher on the Mexican border.
This central power, force, and control, and I emphasize control, works for you, doesn't it.
Well maybe if the yanks stop sending guns accross the border they wouldn't the ranchers wouldn't have issues in Arizona, just a thought there Teaman....:)
Ahomona speaks for nobody

Kansas City, MO

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#103197
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>Stupid crap deleted.
Why do you always try and make your arguments as if your speaking for the whole of Australia. Most Australians disagree with you, even in your states last election the shooters party gained seats in the senate. Shooting is becoming more popular here and most people like the USA.

Its you AHOMONA vs the USA people on this forum, not Australia vs USA get it right.

Australia does not support you AHOMONA.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#103198
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
And the above post just goes to prove you don't know WTF you are talking about. The firearm on my hip (when I choose to wear it) is NOT a go-to-it-first weapon. It is ALWAYS the last resort. As the typical hoplophobe you are, when you see a gun, all you see is aggression. My firearms are DEFENSIVE WEAPONS ONLY. They are there for when the talking stops and the bad guys get aggressive, or especially if they skip right past the talking part.
So tell the group, aussie....what are you going to do when you CAN'T talk your way out of a situation or when the bad guys simply have no interest in talking at all. Call the authorities and PRAY they get there in time???
As far as the rest of your post goes...I'm not sure who the "you" is in that, but it is definitely NOT me. And I will leave you with this bit of advice: If you ever find yourself in a fair fight....your tactics suck. In other words...there is NO SUCH THING as a fair fight. If you want fair, put on some gloves and get into a ring with a referee, but that isn't life.
PS....There have been plenty of people in history that changed the minds of nations of people with racist hate and violent intent.........without the use of weapons....ie Martin Luther, Gandhi, Mandela, can you follow that thought?....The hotelier in the Rwanda massacre saved himself and his family without the use of one weapon, The reporters assistant that survived the Pol Pot regime...there are many factual tales of survival where people overcame all odds to survive without taking another persons life to do it....I have also heard stories of people who have shot and killed the enemy and survived being shot at only to get shot in friendly fire. Having a weapon and knowing how to use it does never guarantee you will last longer than someone who doesn't have one, that is the wisdom of a fool.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#103199
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Ahomona speaks for nobody wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you always try and make your arguments as if your speaking for the whole of Australia. Most Australians disagree with you, even in your states last election the shooters party gained seats in the senate. Shooting is becoming more popular here and most people like the USA.
Its you AHOMONA vs the USA people on this forum, not Australia vs USA get it right.
Australia does not support you AHOMONA.
And the kansas monkey is on the loose again...play me some of that good ole' hillbilly music toothless...LOL
Aphelion

Melbourne, FL

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#103201
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
And the kansas monkey is on the loose again...play me some of that good ole' hillbilly music toothless...LOL
Amoeba, demonstrates their ignorance and childishness. Hits home when your own countrymen think your a fool

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

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#103202
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Aphelion wrote:
<quoted text>
Amoeba, demonstrates their ignorance and childishness. Hits home when your own countrymen think your a fool
A troll is a troll is a troll.....What you talkin' bout Willis?

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

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#103203
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>A: When you buy a gun you do so as an act of aggression grandpa, not because you are a peace lover.
Buying a THING, does not an act of aggression make. I have owned firearms for over 35 years, and NOT ONCE have they ever been used in an aggressive manner. And if the mere sight of a THING (in this case, a firearm) frightens you, that says MUCH MORE about YOUR mental state than mine.
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>A: Yes that is exactly what I will rely on, because the authorities will be more likely to protect me than you who has a gun?
And what will you do if they don't show up in time, if at all???

Well, do yourself a favor. When bad stuff happens, DON'T call the authorities. Why? Because good guys WITH GUNS will show up wanting to help you, and we wouldn't want you to have a coronary and keel over dead at the sight of a gun.
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>A: Well there is obviously no such a thing as a fair fight to YOU, so foretold is forewarned, thanks.(and you say you are not aggressive?)...it's not like I believed you yanks ever fought fair in the first place(read prior post) it is our(the Aussie survival instinct that can recognise these basic facts and adapt accordingly)So we'll be right mate, you don't need to worry about little ole' us. LOL.
I'm not aggressive, until someone puts me in a position that requires me to get aggressive. When someone brings a fight to you, you don't sit back and let yourself be used as a punching bag or a target. The person who can put their attacker on the defensive the quickest will quickly gain the upper hand in the situation and can usually bring it to a very abrupt end. Just look at the multitude of videos out there where shop owners defended themselves with firearms when attempting to be robbed. The bad guys scatter like roaches when the lights are turned on because they hate it when their intended target is ready for them. That is why the bad guys prefer to target the elderly and the weak. And if your first "instinct" is to call the authorities FIRST, your survival instincts suck. Good luck with your govt-sponsored dial-a-prayer. I'll be a little more proactive in my DEFENSE.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

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#103204
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
A troll is a troll is a troll.....
And you are their queen.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

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#103205
Mar 27, 2013
 

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Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
PS....There have been plenty of people in history that changed the minds of nations of people with racist hate and violent intent.........without the use of weapons....ie Martin Luther, Gandhi, Mandela, can you follow that thought?....The hotelier in the Rwanda massacre saved himself and his family without the use of one weapon, The reporters assistant that survived the Pol Pot regime...there are many factual tales of survival where people overcame all odds to survive without taking another persons life to do it....I have also heard stories of people who have shot and killed the enemy and survived being shot at only to get shot in friendly fire. Having a weapon and knowing how to use it does never guarantee you will last longer than someone who doesn't have one, that is the wisdom of a fool.
And what about the countless MILLIONS in Rwanda, Cambodia, etc. who were not so LUCKY. I never said it was a guarantee, nor did I imply it. But as the saying goes....I would rather have a gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it. A lot of the bad guys out there that woud do harm to others carry weapons including forearms. What my firearm does is give me the opportunity to return whatever violence may come to me or mine WITH LIKE VIOLENCE. Evil exists whether you choose to believe it or not. And all of the talking in the world will not turn it away. And armed robber or burglar doesn't want to sit and talk with you. There are people in this world who's sole purpose is to inflict as much pain on their fellow man as they can for their own gain because they have no conscience. They are typically known as sociopaths and psychopaths. And sticking your head in the sand and hoping they will just pass you by is NOT the way I choose to defend me and mine from them.

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