It's the Guns, Stupid

Apr 20, 2007 Full story: Truthdig 103,350

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Full Story
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#103188 Mar 26, 2013
just an allusion wrote:
<quoted text>
So, you're telling me that ALL guns are banned in New Jersey?
The point was New Jersey banned them. I wouldn't impose that on an Arizona rancher on the Mexican border.

This central power, force, and control, and I emphasize control, works for you, doesn't it.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#103189 Mar 26, 2013
Spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
And unlike you, I also have a brain ...:-)
Sure you do. But when was the last time you actually used it for something besides keeping your ears from touching each other?

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#103190 Mar 26, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
"Armed Veteran"
Luke 22:36
Now they didn't have firearms back then, but they did have swords, which were one of the "arms" of the day.
A: you are referencing passages from the bible that didn't apply to you or today...if it did you would probably still be slaves of the British master.....
A hell of a lot longer than someone who has been disarmed by their own willful ignorance.
A: People who only rely on guns to save their lives never last long, others that survive without them have stronger survival skills, they know how to talk their way out of a situation, calm a situation and trade their way out...so I doubt that a guy with a gun would come after me first he would want to get those that threaten him, and that would be you.
This coming from someone who lives on a penal colony. That's rich.
A: Yes we live on land that was originally a penal colony so we have had to deal with being downtrodden and have needed to effect our own survival, so we have evolved with these traits embedded in our genetic makeup, and that is what makes us strong and loyal to one another, it is called mate ship and it is the strongest force (militarily) that you can have, and we have it in spades...you on the other hand have always relied on numbers but with single mindedness you have been and are, aggressive and a bully, your prey is usually unarmed, under armed and under skilled and you don't balk at killing women, children or old men so you don't fight, you murder....Anyone can win with those ideals....We on the other hand seek and equal foe and don't harm innocents, because living on land that was once a penal colony you learn the value of all humanity....you yanks need a good dose.
And the above post just goes to prove you don't know WTF you are talking about. The firearm on my hip (when I choose to wear it) is NOT a go-to-it-first weapon. It is ALWAYS the last resort. As the typical hoplophobe you are, when you see a gun, all you see is aggression. My firearms are DEFENSIVE WEAPONS ONLY. They are there for when the talking stops and the bad guys get aggressive, or especially if they skip right past the talking part.

So tell the group, aussie....what are you going to do when you CAN'T talk your way out of a situation or when the bad guys simply have no interest in talking at all. Call the authorities and PRAY they get there in time???

As far as the rest of your post goes...I'm not sure who the "you" is in that, but it is definitely NOT me. And I will leave you with this bit of advice: If you ever find yourself in a fair fight....your tactics suck. In other words...there is NO SUCH THING as a fair fight. If you want fair, put on some gloves and get into a ring with a referee, but that isn't life.
Good Aussies

Iceland

#103191 Mar 26, 2013
Tyrants, or those with criminal intent, are always afraid of people who have means of self defense.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#103195 Mar 27, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
And the above post just goes to prove you don't know WTF you are talking about. The firearm on my hip (when I choose to wear it) is NOT a go-to-it-first weapon. It is ALWAYS the last resort. As the typical hoplophobe you are, when you see a gun, all you see is aggression. My firearms are DEFENSIVE WEAPONS ONLY. They are there for when the talking stops and the bad guys get aggressive, or especially if they skip right past the talking part.

A: When you buy a gun you do so as an act of aggression grandpa, not because you are a peace lover.
So tell the group, aussie....what are you going to do when you CAN'T talk your way out of a situation or when the bad guys simply have no interest in talking at all. Call the authorities and PRAY they get there in time???

A: Yes that is exactly what I will rely on, because the authorities will be more likely to protect me than you who has a gun?

As far as the rest of your post goes...I'm not sure who the "you" is in that, but it is definitely NOT me.

A: Never is!

And I will leave you with this bit of advice: If you ever find yourself in a fair fight....your tactics suck. In other words...there is NO SUCH THING as a fair fight. If you want fair, put on some gloves and get into a ring with a referee, but that isn't life.

A: Well there is obviously no such a thing as a fair fight to YOU, so foretold is forewarned, thanks.(and you say you are not aggressive?)...it's not like I believed you yanks ever fought fair in the first place(read prior post) it is our(the Aussie survival instinct that can recognise these basic facts and adapt accordingly)So we'll be right mate, you don't need to worry about little ole' us. LOL.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#103196 Mar 27, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
The point was New Jersey banned them. I wouldn't impose that on an Arizona rancher on the Mexican border.
This central power, force, and control, and I emphasize control, works for you, doesn't it.
Well maybe if the yanks stop sending guns accross the border they wouldn't the ranchers wouldn't have issues in Arizona, just a thought there Teaman....:)
Ahomona speaks for nobody

Kansas City, MO

#103197 Mar 27, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>Stupid crap deleted.
Why do you always try and make your arguments as if your speaking for the whole of Australia. Most Australians disagree with you, even in your states last election the shooters party gained seats in the senate. Shooting is becoming more popular here and most people like the USA.

Its you AHOMONA vs the USA people on this forum, not Australia vs USA get it right.

Australia does not support you AHOMONA.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#103198 Mar 27, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
And the above post just goes to prove you don't know WTF you are talking about. The firearm on my hip (when I choose to wear it) is NOT a go-to-it-first weapon. It is ALWAYS the last resort. As the typical hoplophobe you are, when you see a gun, all you see is aggression. My firearms are DEFENSIVE WEAPONS ONLY. They are there for when the talking stops and the bad guys get aggressive, or especially if they skip right past the talking part.
So tell the group, aussie....what are you going to do when you CAN'T talk your way out of a situation or when the bad guys simply have no interest in talking at all. Call the authorities and PRAY they get there in time???
As far as the rest of your post goes...I'm not sure who the "you" is in that, but it is definitely NOT me. And I will leave you with this bit of advice: If you ever find yourself in a fair fight....your tactics suck. In other words...there is NO SUCH THING as a fair fight. If you want fair, put on some gloves and get into a ring with a referee, but that isn't life.
PS....There have been plenty of people in history that changed the minds of nations of people with racist hate and violent intent.........without the use of weapons....ie Martin Luther, Gandhi, Mandela, can you follow that thought?....The hotelier in the Rwanda massacre saved himself and his family without the use of one weapon, The reporters assistant that survived the Pol Pot regime...there are many factual tales of survival where people overcame all odds to survive without taking another persons life to do it....I have also heard stories of people who have shot and killed the enemy and survived being shot at only to get shot in friendly fire. Having a weapon and knowing how to use it does never guarantee you will last longer than someone who doesn't have one, that is the wisdom of a fool.

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#103199 Mar 27, 2013
Ahomona speaks for nobody wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do you always try and make your arguments as if your speaking for the whole of Australia. Most Australians disagree with you, even in your states last election the shooters party gained seats in the senate. Shooting is becoming more popular here and most people like the USA.
Its you AHOMONA vs the USA people on this forum, not Australia vs USA get it right.
Australia does not support you AHOMONA.
And the kansas monkey is on the loose again...play me some of that good ole' hillbilly music toothless...LOL
Aphelion

Melbourne, FL

#103201 Mar 27, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
And the kansas monkey is on the loose again...play me some of that good ole' hillbilly music toothless...LOL
Amoeba, demonstrates their ignorance and childishness. Hits home when your own countrymen think your a fool

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#103202 Mar 27, 2013
Aphelion wrote:
<quoted text>
Amoeba, demonstrates their ignorance and childishness. Hits home when your own countrymen think your a fool
A troll is a troll is a troll.....What you talkin' bout Willis?

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#103203 Mar 27, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>A: When you buy a gun you do so as an act of aggression grandpa, not because you are a peace lover.
Buying a THING, does not an act of aggression make. I have owned firearms for over 35 years, and NOT ONCE have they ever been used in an aggressive manner. And if the mere sight of a THING (in this case, a firearm) frightens you, that says MUCH MORE about YOUR mental state than mine.
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>A: Yes that is exactly what I will rely on, because the authorities will be more likely to protect me than you who has a gun?
And what will you do if they don't show up in time, if at all???

Well, do yourself a favor. When bad stuff happens, DON'T call the authorities. Why? Because good guys WITH GUNS will show up wanting to help you, and we wouldn't want you to have a coronary and keel over dead at the sight of a gun.
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>A: Well there is obviously no such a thing as a fair fight to YOU, so foretold is forewarned, thanks.(and you say you are not aggressive?)...it's not like I believed you yanks ever fought fair in the first place(read prior post) it is our(the Aussie survival instinct that can recognise these basic facts and adapt accordingly)So we'll be right mate, you don't need to worry about little ole' us. LOL.
I'm not aggressive, until someone puts me in a position that requires me to get aggressive. When someone brings a fight to you, you don't sit back and let yourself be used as a punching bag or a target. The person who can put their attacker on the defensive the quickest will quickly gain the upper hand in the situation and can usually bring it to a very abrupt end. Just look at the multitude of videos out there where shop owners defended themselves with firearms when attempting to be robbed. The bad guys scatter like roaches when the lights are turned on because they hate it when their intended target is ready for them. That is why the bad guys prefer to target the elderly and the weak. And if your first "instinct" is to call the authorities FIRST, your survival instincts suck. Good luck with your govt-sponsored dial-a-prayer. I'll be a little more proactive in my DEFENSE.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#103204 Mar 27, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
A troll is a troll is a troll.....
And you are their queen.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#103205 Mar 27, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
PS....There have been plenty of people in history that changed the minds of nations of people with racist hate and violent intent.........without the use of weapons....ie Martin Luther, Gandhi, Mandela, can you follow that thought?....The hotelier in the Rwanda massacre saved himself and his family without the use of one weapon, The reporters assistant that survived the Pol Pot regime...there are many factual tales of survival where people overcame all odds to survive without taking another persons life to do it....I have also heard stories of people who have shot and killed the enemy and survived being shot at only to get shot in friendly fire. Having a weapon and knowing how to use it does never guarantee you will last longer than someone who doesn't have one, that is the wisdom of a fool.
And what about the countless MILLIONS in Rwanda, Cambodia, etc. who were not so LUCKY. I never said it was a guarantee, nor did I imply it. But as the saying goes....I would rather have a gun and not need it, than to need it and not have it. A lot of the bad guys out there that woud do harm to others carry weapons including forearms. What my firearm does is give me the opportunity to return whatever violence may come to me or mine WITH LIKE VIOLENCE. Evil exists whether you choose to believe it or not. And all of the talking in the world will not turn it away. And armed robber or burglar doesn't want to sit and talk with you. There are people in this world who's sole purpose is to inflict as much pain on their fellow man as they can for their own gain because they have no conscience. They are typically known as sociopaths and psychopaths. And sticking your head in the sand and hoping they will just pass you by is NOT the way I choose to defend me and mine from them.
Teaman

Mount Holly, NJ

#103206 Mar 27, 2013
Ahomana wrote:
<quoted text>
Well maybe if the yanks stop sending guns accross the border they wouldn't the ranchers wouldn't have issues in Arizona, just a thought there Teaman....:)
I posted a link earlier in this thread where four terrorists arrested here came across the Mexican border.
FYI

Arvada, CO

#103207 Mar 27, 2013
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Just having a little fun. Canadians are very good people. A lot of them come here for the summer. Carrey may have ruined his career though. That would be the point of the remark.
" YOU ARE A RACIST " I am a Progressive ! SO WHAT!! Regards
Spocko

Oakland, CA

#103208 Mar 27, 2013
Sir Bucking Fastard wrote:
<quoted text>
YOU are a Lucking Fiar.
YOU have NO guns AT ALL, TUCKFARD!!!
Huh?
FYI

Arvada, CO

#103212 Mar 27, 2013
Spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh?
SE Bueno' Regards

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#103213 Mar 27, 2013
Armed Veteran wrote:
-Buying a THING, does not an act of aggression make. I have owned firearms for over 35 years, and NOT ONCE have they ever been used in an aggressive manner. And if the mere sight of a THING (in this case, a firearm) frightens you, that says MUCH MORE about YOUR mental state than mine.

A: Not much frightens me least of all a gun, but the mentality of those who own weapons, that should only be used in a war zone is down right idiotic.

-And what will you do if they don't show up in time, if at all???

A: The same thing as if I am waiting on a vigilante to save me(neither would be waiting on my beck and call)I imagine the one significant difference is "I know the number to call in an emergency" and I don't know those of the vigilante's.

-Well, do yourself a favor. When bad stuff happens, DON'T call the authorities. Why? Because good guys WITH GUNS will show up wanting to help you, and we wouldn't want you to have a coronary and keel over dead at the sight of a gun.

A: Well cheers for the warning....again, but don't hold your breathe, there Pacha!

-I'm not aggressive, until someone puts me in a position that requires me to get aggressive. When someone brings a fight to you, you don't sit back and let yourself be used as a punching bag or a target.

A: Everything you have stated thus far "IS" aggressive behavior.

-The person who can put their attacker on the defensive the quickest will quickly gain the upper hand in the situation and can usually bring it to a very abrupt end.

A: I have seen my brother in situations like that and so far he has always managed to quiet or control the situation, same goes for my dad, and I always feel safe in their company.

-Just look at the multitude of videos out there where shop owners defended themselves with firearms when attempting to be robbed. The bad guys scatter like roaches when the lights are turned on because they hate it when their intended target is ready for them.

A: I have also seen people defending themselves in those police video's, along with their employers property without the need of a gun....and had success....moot point.

-That is why the bad guys prefer to target the elderly and the weak. And if your first "instinct" is to call the authorities FIRST, your survival instincts suck. Good luck with your govt-sponsored dial-a-prayer. I'll be a little more proactive in my DEFENSE.

A: Well onyer! on your aggressive stance there Pacha, I prefer the defensive strategy and I would have a higher chance of survival if all countries including yours, stopped flooding the world market with drugs and guns? Now just a thought here Pacha! Maybe because you are so busy thinking of the reasons you desperately "need a gun" you missed the most logical one, Why would you or anyone need to fear someone having a gun if there simply were "NO guns" in the first place eh, what do you think?

Since: Dec 10

Perth, Australia

#103214 Mar 27, 2013
R-12 Freon wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh I do have a life and it's because I do that I can fear somebody trying to take something away from me.
Do you REALLY think that Freedom cannot be taken away from you??
WOW, are you gullable...and foolish.
No of course I don't THINK freedom can be taken away, I am a sane rational human being.....I KNOW you can't take a persons freedom. You can take a mans house his car, his dog, his wife, kids and guns and then have him incarcerated and you still cannot take his freedom...it is not something in the physical sense...if you have it, you can never lose it, it is not like faith!

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