It's the Guns, Stupid

It's the Guns, Stupid

There are 103324 comments on the Truthdig story from Apr 20, 2007, titled It's the Guns, Stupid. In it, Truthdig reports that:

“And that's the end of the issue”

Why do we have the same futile argument every time there is a mass killing? Advocates of gun control try to open a discussion about whether more reasonable weapons statutes might reduce the number of violent ... via Truthdig

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Truthdig.

Guppy

Gadsden, AL

#84408 Dec 11, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Orchestrate what? Bring a gun to work in a box and shoot at a car from a window? The route was published in the papers. It doesn't take a genius.
He wouldn't talk because he was a patsy?
If you don't ask for a lawyer, you won't get one. If you're not talking, you don't need one.
haha ~ He said he was a PATSY. They killed him so he WOULDN'T talk. That's obvious.

He said he wanted a lawyer. The truth would have come out if afforded legal counsel.

Must have been some shot. He even knew which car was Kennedy"s from a distance. Just happened to kill the poor guy and wound the Governor. Wow! That worked out pretty well for a lone assassin.

He must have been one savvy guy.

Shaking head.

Teeman, teaman, iceteaman. Rolling eyes.

How bout dem eagles? Better late than never...Do you think they'll fire Reid?
Guppy

Gadsden, AL

#84409 Dec 11, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Why?
Wanted to know if it is a painful procedure.

Would you do it again?
Guppy

Gadsden, AL

#84410 Dec 11, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Orchestrate what? Bring a gun to work in a box and shoot at a car from a window? The route was published in the papers. It doesn't take a genius.
He wouldn't talk because he was a patsy?
If you don't ask for a lawyer, you won't get one. If you're not talking, you don't need one.
Doesn't the court appoint a lawyer? Everyone gets a public defender.

Since: Jan 11

Abingdon, VA

#84411 Dec 11, 2012
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
Doesn't the court appoint a lawyer? Everyone gets a public defender.
The court only appoints a lawyer when you ask for one and can't afford one of your own. That was before Miranda anyway.

Since: Jan 11

Abingdon, VA

#84412 Dec 11, 2012
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
Wanted to know if it is a painful procedure.
Would you do it again?
I never had one so I wouldn't know. I'm asking why would you even want one.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#84413 Dec 11, 2012
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't read about this case since last spring, but I will try to answer. My pleasure.
How do you know Zim had his head repeatedly slammed into the concrete? One good slam could have broken the skin.
He had multiple (more than one) cuts to the back of his head.
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
I'll try to simplify this.
Martin was walking through the "gated" neighborhood. Was he on his way to his father's house? If so, he was a guest. He was allowed to be there.
It was his father's girlfriend's townhouse. NOT his father's.
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
Zim was cruising around looking for interlopers. Had his gun ready to roll.
Bullshit. He was on his way to the store. And what the hell does "Had his gun ready to roll" mean??
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
Zim sees Martin and wants to confront him.
He does.
What evidence do you have that 1. he wanted to confront Martin? If he did, why would he not have just done it instead of calling the police?; and 2. What evidence do you have that it was Zimmerman that confronted Martin? According to martin's girlfriend, it was Martin that first spoke to Zimmerman.
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
Fight insues.
And even the prosecution has admitted to NOT knowing who threw the first blow.
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
Zim is getting worried because he is taking the brunt of it.
Pulls out gun and shoots Martin.
What evidence do you have that Zimmerman ever laid a finger on Martin. Other than a single GSW, he had no other offense wounds on his person.
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
Zim should have waited for cops, but he was hell bent on confronting this guy, that had every reason to be there IF HIS FATHER LIVED THERE. Don't remember if this is true.
It's not, and the reast of this statement is oure speculation on your part with no evidence to back it.
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
Martin is dead for walking through neighborhood and Zim is in enormous trouble.
Martin is dead becuase he decided to slam someone's head into a concrete sidewalk who was prepared to defend their own life with deadly force if necessary. I guess he felt it was necessary, and it will be up to the prosecution to prove beyond reasonable doubt otherwise.
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
He'll be found guilty.
Because he is.
Based on what evidence??? You have yet to provide any.
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
It's The Guns, Stupid.
If I see someone I don't recognize on my street, I say hello to them and keep walking. NO ONE but a security guard has the right to ask someone why they are there. NO ONE does that.
If you live in the woods in a secluded area and I was walking down your lane one day.
I would be expected to be asked by the owner of the house what I was doing there.
Guppy
Yes people do that. I confronted an unknown person sitting in a truck in front of my house not more than two months ago. I had every right to do so...it is MY neighborhood and he was a stranger.

Zimmerman was the head of the neighborhood watch and a homeowner in a private gated community. He had every right to ask Martin what he was doing there. In response, Martin was under no obligation to answer. But he also had NO right to go to blows with Zimmerman just because he didn't like being questioned. Too bad his decision to do that cost him his life. Sucks to be Martin.

Since: Jan 11

Abingdon, VA

#84414 Dec 11, 2012
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
haha ~ He said he was a PATSY. They killed him so he WOULDN'T talk. That's obvious.
He said he wanted a lawyer. The truth would have come out if afforded legal counsel.
Must have been some shot. He even knew which car was Kennedy"s from a distance. Just happened to kill the poor guy and wound the Governor. Wow! That worked out pretty well for a lone assassin.
He must have been one savvy guy.
Shaking head.
Teeman, teaman, iceteaman. Rolling eyes.
How bout dem eagles? Better late than never...Do you think they'll fire Reid?
Who is they?

Savvy guy? No, a marine corps trained marksman like the tower sniper in Austin, Texas.

Kennedy's car would be the one with Kennedy in it.:-)

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#84415 Dec 11, 2012
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
He even knew which car was Kennedy"s from a distance.
Well, it was a convertible. So it shouldn't have been too difficult to figure that one out.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#84416 Dec 11, 2012
Guppy wrote:
A four year old boy found his father's guns and killed his two year old brother in Michigan.
The little two year old would be alive today if it weren't for the gun.
Sad story.
Happens too much. Shouldn't have guns in the house with children.
I bet the parents will show up at the police station and drop off the weapons.
Shaking Head.
A football players wife today would be alive if she had had a gun.
Tray

Pontotoc, MS

#84417 Dec 11, 2012
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
The military had rifles that could only shoot Once. Then they had to reload. Whilst reloading, they would get an arrow or two (looked like a porcupine) shot at them. Indians were great shots.
They did a pretty good job of killing people. IT Was after the buffalo hunters came on the scene, that they basically gave up. The buffalo hunters were tough dudes. The indians killed/scalped more than a few, though.
You are not finished. You forgot to explain how they out numbered the white man at over a thousand to one yet being great shots they were nearly exterminated. The bow and arrow of the time is not the compound bow of today. The range was extremely short compared to the gun. By the time they were close enough to use that bow there were very few left. By the time the buffalo hunter came along the indian nations on the east coast were almost all obliterated. By the time the white man moved to the west coast the repeater rifle and revolver allowed the white man to easily take on numbers of indians in excess of 10 to 1, 10 soldiers could easily take on 100 bow and arrow carrying indians. Please read a history book and understand the American Indian LOST before eating anymore useless rants.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#84418 Dec 11, 2012
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
It's taking a long time to wade through this s....tuff.
That woman (nurse) would be alive today if the Auzzie's hadn't embarrassed her. She comes from a culture where they feel shame and if they feel shame they will kill themselves.
SHE WOULD BE ALIVE TODAY. Tragedy.
Shame on you Auzzie's and your sick sense of humor.
Shaking head and frowning.
You guys need to clean up your act. Today would be a good day to start!
Get lost!
Nice, I bet you blame the Jews for all those German going around killing them.

Or the Indians for all the Americans going around killing them,.

Do you usually blame everybody but the person who is responsible.

Now you blame aussies for a flake killing herself.

How long have you been a progressive?
Dan C

Sacramento, CA

#84419 Dec 11, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
A football players wife today would be alive if she had had a gun.
You know what.

Fuck you.

Having a gun does not guarantee a successful outcome on jackshit.

You simpleton gun freaks always lay claim to this yet many whom are armed get killed as well.

WTF do most of you know about combat, crime or real life scenarios.

Myself I think many of you life arcade dreams when it comes to guns and reality.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#84420 Dec 11, 2012
sid wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are saying a gun doesn't “influence the mind of possessor”, I agree in the sense of a gun being an inanimate object having no mental control of it's owner. A gun is nothing more than a tool but the mental predisposition of the user is the determining factor. I could use a gun to blow holes in the ground to plant beans if I want or blow a hole in someone. Same as a car, the car isn't the problem, it's the nut behind the wheel.
A gun can give you a sense of or ability to,
1. The ability to harm or kill another
2. The almost guaranteed surety of harming or killing another
3. Being able to harm or kill without being harmed or killed.
4. A heightened sense of personal security [perceived or real]
5. A distorted view of personal ability [over confidence, superiority]
6. A potential to take risks you normally wouldn't
7. Respond disproportionately to a given situation [over react]
8. To kill or harm without intention [accidents]
9. To use force precipitously when inaction or delayed action may suffice
10. Escalate a situation rather than calm it.
11. An ease of ability to harm or kill
12. Being able to quickly resolve a situation
A knife or baseball bat will give you some of these senses or abilities but not all at once, it depends on the situation and the individuals. You are correct in saying that a gun never killed anyone of it's own volition but that's about as meaningful as saying a vacuum cleaner never cleaned the house of it's own volition.
You are right in saying it's “ It's all a matter of 'convenience”, but different inanimate objects are potentially lethal in varying degrees, to say vegetable knife is as lethal as glock 9mm is bullshit and you know it. I agree that the gun in someone's hand didn't kill anyone but the mental state of the person holding the gun caused the gun to kill. A knife can kill a gun can kill, that makes them equal in one potentially but the ability, speed, convenience, guarantee, personal safety of using a gun to kill leaves a knife in the shade. The solution to the so called gun problem is, either everyone has guns or no one has guns and that ain't going to happen.
Take it easy.
Wow Sid, I have never seen or met anyone that thinks like that when they have a gun. Wait, I have met met some criminals in prison who felt that way.
You need to find a better crowd to hang with. Or get help.

Either way.

“Now thats a tin hat!”

Since: Oct 07

Blue Ridge Mountains

#84421 Dec 11, 2012
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
No, when the grizzly bear kills someone ~ I will not be there and I surely wouldn't have a warrant. I am NOT a police officer. Are you?
I am still here because the Lord hasn't called me home ~ yet.
Yep, I breathe air. I think most people do.
I am NOT eating their food.
Contentious much?
Your ignorance is only surpassed by your obtusness.

Judges issue warrants, not police. The police merely carry them to arrest someone.

And if the police see you kill someone, they do not need a warrant for your arrest.

Hope that helped.
Guppy

Gadsden, AL

#84422 Dec 11, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
I never had one so I wouldn't know. I'm asking why would you even want one.
It would be kind of cool to have one on your neck so everyone could see it. Doesn't have to be a big one. Something dainty, like me.
Guppy

Gadsden, AL

#84423 Dec 11, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Your ignorance is only surpassed by your obtusness.
Judges issue warrants, not police. The police merely carry them to arrest someone.
And if the police see you kill someone, they do not need a warrant for your arrest.
Hope that helped.
Oh, so sorry I offended you.

Lighten up.
Guppy

Gadsden, AL

#84424 Dec 11, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Wow Sid, I have never seen or met anyone that thinks like that when they have a gun. Wait, I have met met some criminals in prison who felt that way.
You need to find a better crowd tco hang with. Or get help.
Either way.
ZD is admitting he has been incarcerated.

Wonders never cease.
Besara

Omaha, NE

#84426 Dec 11, 2012
Teaman wrote:
<quoted text>
Orchestrate what? Bring a gun to work in a box and shoot at a car from a window? The route was published in the papers. It doesn't take a genius.
He wouldn't talk because he was a patsy?
If you don't ask for a lawyer, you won't get one. If you're not talking, you don't need one.
Ever been to Dealey Plaza?
You never questioned Oswald's ability to fire 3 rounds in under 8 seconds with a bolt action rifle all the while sighting in between shots on a moving target?
Oswald wasn't that good.
Strange that a strip club owner be allowed to wander down the ramp while the alleged assassin of the POTUS is being transferred between jails?

Weirdest damned thing, the 4 digit code I have to type in to publish this post is '1963'.

Since: Jan 11

Abingdon, VA

#84427 Dec 11, 2012
Guppy wrote:
<quoted text>
ZD is admitting he has been incarcerated.
Wonders never cease.
Or employed.
Guppy

Gadsden, AL

#84428 Dec 11, 2012
ZigmunnDroid wrote:
<quoted text>
Nice, I bet you blame the Jews for all those German going around killing them.
Or the Indians for all the Americans going around killing them,.
Do you usually blame everybody but the person who is responsible.
Now you blame aussies for a flake killing herself.
How long have you been a progressive?
You guys are obsessed by the Jews and the German's. Are you Jewish? Must be.

I do blame the indians for all kinds of things. The list is long.

Shame on you. She wasn't a Flake. She was a caring sensitive person. FYI ~ her family is blaming the Auzzie's too. They got the ball rolling. All of Austrailia was probably in stitches.

Progressive? Hope so.

It's the conservatives, dummy.

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