Kel-Tec P-11. Is it anygood?

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“I won't pay health insurance”

Since: Jun 07

East Wenatchee, WA

#1 Nov 1, 2007
I've been thinking about buying a Kel-Tec P-11 9mm. Does anybody know if this gun is any good and if so how much should I be willing to pay for it? I was thinking about getting a walther ppk, but this kel-tec might be a better deal yet. I want something super concealable, but do not want to sacrifice stopping power or reliability. I also already have plenty of 9mm on hand, so I thought getting the kel-tec p11 would work out great. I havenít seen any walther ppks in 9mm luger.
BOMB ISLAM

Port Charlotte, FL

#2 Nov 3, 2007
Alex wrote:
I've been thinking about buying a Kel-Tec P-11 9mm. Does anybody know if this gun is any good and if so how much should I be willing to pay for it? I was thinking about getting a walther ppk, but this kel-tec might be a better deal yet. I want something super concealable, but do not want to sacrifice stopping power or reliability. I also already have plenty of 9mm on hand, so I thought getting the kel-tec p11 would work out great. I havenít seen any walther ppks in 9mm luger.
9mm is a mistake for anything but target shooting.

If you want an effective round that will allow you to take out a would be killer in one shot because you are never guaranteed a second chance the .45 ACP is your best bet short of carrying a cannon like a .44 magnum or larger.

I carry another very effective round because I carry a revolver and that is a .357 magnum.

“It's all in the reflexes.”

Since: Jun 07

Good ol' USA

#3 Nov 3, 2007
I have a couple of Keltec P-32s and am quite pleased with them. The KTOG group on yahoogroups has several thousand members who are all quite satisfied with the P11.

It's not a target gun that you would shoot for pleasure at the range. It you want "super" concealiblity you might want to consider the newest keltec, the P9. It is about the same size at the P-11 but is much thinner. I have heard lots of great feedback from it.

Oh... and NO caliber is a magic caliber.

“I won't pay health insurance”

Since: Jun 07

Wenatchee, WA

#4 Nov 4, 2007
BOMB ISLAM wrote:
<quoted text>9mm is a mistake for anything but target shooting.
If you want an effective round that will allow you to take out a would be killer in one shot because you are never guaranteed a second chance the .45 ACP is your best bet short of carrying a cannon like a .44 magnum or larger.
I carry another very effective round because I carry a revolver and that is a .357 magnum.
I actually already carry a 45 ACP, a Springfeild 1911. The problem is that its just too big to conceal in the summer. I haven't seen any 45s that are small enough to fit in my pocket, however this kel-tec p11 would do just that.

I have a couple of 9mms and am pretty impressed with 9mm round all around. I suspect one 9mm black talon would do the trick in taking out any would be killer, but don't have any way of verifying that other than the holes I blow into targets.

“I won't pay health insurance”

Since: Jun 07

Wenatchee, WA

#5 Nov 4, 2007
Jack Burton wrote:
I have a couple of Keltec P-32s and am quite pleased with them. The KTOG group on yahoogroups has several thousand members who are all quite satisfied with the P11.
It's not a target gun that you would shoot for pleasure at the range. It you want "super" concealiblity you might want to consider the newest keltec, the P9. It is about the same size at the P-11 but is much thinner. I have heard lots of great feedback from it.
Oh... and NO caliber is a magic caliber.
I hadn't heard of the P9. Thanks for the mention. I will definetely have to look it up. I'm guessing the P11 or new P9 would have one hell of a kick to them considering their size and weight. Hows the recoil on your p32s?
KBM

Saugerties, NY

#6 Nov 4, 2007
BOMB ISLAM wrote:
<quoted text>9mm is a mistake for anything but target shooting.
If you want an effective round that will allow you to take out a would be killer in one shot because you are never guaranteed a second chance the .45 ACP is your best bet short of carrying a cannon like a .44 magnum or larger.
I carry another very effective round because I carry a revolver and that is a .357 magnum.
Sorry, but that's crap. The actual size difference of the hole between a .45 and a 9MM is very tiny. Will a .45 cause a BIT more damage? I guess, but if you want to stop a "killer" with one shot, you'd better put that one shot right between his eyes or directly into his heart, because if you want to stop anything with one shot reliably, get yourself a 12 gauge.

I once responded to a shots firec call. We pull up, and there's a guy sitting on the bench looking at us. We ask him if he heard any shots or if anybody is shot, and he said "Yeah, ME". He turns around and we see FIVE holes in his back. Then he collapses. He tried to run when he was being robbed and got blasted. He survived, by the way.

9MM is fine for self defense. Just get yourslef some good hollow points and you'll be good to go. The 11 shots of 9Mm he can carry in that Kel-Tec trumps 7 or 8 of .45. Not to mention more control as he's letting them fly.

As for the original poster, I thought of getting a Kel-Tec, also. They just seem cheap to me. The few guys I talked to said they were "OK, with only the occasional misfeed or jam". I would never carry a gun with that reputation, so I passed on it. NONE of my semi auto's have EVER jammed. Not once.
KBM

Saugerties, NY

#7 Nov 4, 2007
By the way, the robbery victim was shot with a .45.
BOMB ISLAM

Fort Myers, FL

#8 Nov 4, 2007
KBM wrote:
By the way, the robbery victim was shot with a .45.
Large blood loss ( trauma ) is what takes down a criminal.

The victim you described was shot in the back and IF you are a cop you should know that this was not a defencive shooting.

I am amazed if you are a cop but I call you a lier.

Ballistics are better in a .45 then almost any other round.

Entry /exit size holes if it does exit are far superior.

Bullet spread on a modern " hollow point are far better.

In short , the .45 has the ability to cause the greatest blood loss (trauma) then almost all other rounds.

Your comment about a shot gun was plain stupid when talking about CCW.

Are you running for Governor of Kali-for-knia.
KBM

Saugerties, NY

#9 Nov 4, 2007
BOMB ISLAM wrote:
<quoted text>Large blood loss ( trauma ) is what takes down a criminal.
The victim you described was shot in the back and IF you are a cop you should know that this was not a defencive shooting.
I am amazed if you are a cop but I call you a lier.
Ballistics are better in a .45 then almost any other round.
Entry /exit size holes if it does exit are far superior.
Bullet spread on a modern " hollow point are far better.
In short , the .45 has the ability to cause the greatest blood loss (trauma) then almost all other rounds.
Your comment about a shot gun was plain stupid when talking about CCW.
Are you running for Governor of Kali-for-knia.
Really? So a .45 has better penetrating of heavy clothing than a faster moving 9MM? And blood loss is what kills a man, right? So tell me how long it takes to bleed out? The "one shot stop" is irrelevant because if the other guy is armed, unless you hit him in the brain or heart, he's going to have time to shoot back and kill YOU. Even if he dies 2 minutes later, you still took the bullet.

I am a retired cop, and what difference does it make that the guy was not shot in a defensive shooting? What matters is that he DID take FIVE .45's to the back, and had the time to dial 911, and wait until we showed up before he passed out.

I could care less what you carry, but your statement that the .45 is a "man stopper" is trash. Pistol rounds are inherently anemic. You trade power for conceilability. Of course you can't carry a 12 gauge, but if you really think the .45 has a better chance of taking down someone with one shot, you're incorrect. Shot placement is key, and if you shoot me in the leg with a .45, and I shoot you in the head with a 9MM, I'll limp and you'll die, period.

Nice name, though. I'd like to push the button on Islam, too. Did you heat the interview of the MArine on Sean Hannity? His SAW malfunctioned and he killed THREE insurgents with his 9Mm M9 Beretta. Guess they do work after all, huh?

“It's all in the reflexes.”

Since: Jun 07

Good ol' USA

#10 Nov 4, 2007
KBM wrote:
<quoted text>

As for the original poster, I thought of getting a Kel-Tec, also. They just seem cheap to me. The few guys I talked to said they were "OK, with only the occasional misfeed or jam". I would never carry a gun with that reputation, so I passed on it. NONE of my semi auto's have EVER jammed. Not once.
They are "inexpensive" but not cheap.

And I know guys who have put thousands of rounds thru theirs without a hiccup.

However, notwithstanding that, they do push the boundaries with being the lightest 9mm out there. If you have poor gun handling skills with poor understanding of gripping and shooting the gun just might jam on recoil. They don't have the weight of a massive slide to absorb the recoil, they depend upon the operator doing his job of holding the gun correctly.
BOMB ISLAM

Fort Myers, FL

#11 Nov 4, 2007
KBM wrote:
<quoted text>
Really? So a .45 has better penetrating of heavy clothing than a faster moving 9MM? And blood loss is what kills a man, right? So tell me how long it takes to bleed out? The "one shot stop" is irrelevant because if the other guy is armed, unless you hit him in the brain or heart, he's going to have time to shoot back and kill YOU. Even if he dies 2 minutes later, you still took the bullet.
I am a retired cop, and what difference does it make that the guy was not shot in a defensive shooting? What matters is that he DID take FIVE .45's to the back, and had the time to dial 911, and wait until we showed up before he passed out.
I could care less what you carry, but your statement that the .45 is a "man stopper" is trash. Pistol rounds are inherently anemic. You trade power for conceilability. Of course you can't carry a 12 gauge, but if you really think the .45 has a better chance of taking down someone with one shot, you're incorrect. Shot placement is key, and if you shoot me in the leg with a .45, and I shoot you in the head with a 9MM, I'll limp and you'll die, period.
Nice name, though. I'd like to push the button on Islam, too. Did you heat the interview of the MArine on Sean Hannity? His SAW malfunctioned and he killed THREE insurgents with his 9Mm M9 Beretta. Guess they do work after all, huh?
I own a Beretta 9mm same model some police use , fine piece of craftsmanship and feel it is the best 9mm.

The saw could have jammed for the same reason the AK-47 does not many times.

Tight tolerances do not always work well in adverse conditions.

Your understanding of Trama needs some brushing up.

Shoot someone in the kidney with a hollow point .22LR and it will take them out with one shot.

Four AM in a 7-11 I will be lucky if I am alert enough to mount a full scale invasion against a robber.

I prefer the more realistic approach and give myself one shot.

I will reassess my ability to move forward or tactical retreat after .

Reset buttons only work on computer games.

A .45ACP works better on a bullet proof vest .

Heavy clothing means nothing.

Even shooting inch thick steel a .45ACP is going to have a greater concussive force.

Most outspoken troops in Iraq have found the .223 and the 9mm to be less then effective and many in the military have called for the .308 and .45ACP to be the only light rounds used.

The military put out bids for a new battle pistols ; .45ACP DA/SO to increase safety over the 1911 model.

Bids cane back from many companies to make it competitive but the military then said the money was not there.

Did they bow to our EU partners or 180 million dollar strike fighters the only thing we can afford ?

I could care less about shots in the back , 99 percent of thee time this is criminal behaviour.
KBM

Saugerties, NY

#12 Nov 4, 2007
BOMB ISLAM wrote:
<quoted text>I own a Beretta 9mm same model some police use , fine piece of craftsmanship and feel it is the best 9mm.
The saw could have jammed for the same reason the AK-47 does not many times.
Tight tolerances do not always work well in adverse conditions.
Your understanding of Trama needs some brushing up.
Shoot someone in the kidney with a hollow point .22LR and it will take them out with one shot.
Four AM in a 7-11 I will be lucky if I am alert enough to mount a full scale invasion against a robber.
I prefer the more realistic approach and give myself one shot.
I will reassess my ability to move forward or tactical retreat after .
Reset buttons only work on computer games.
A .45ACP works better on a bullet proof vest .
Heavy clothing means nothing.
Even shooting inch thick steel a .45ACP is going to have a greater concussive force.
Most outspoken troops in Iraq have found the .223 and the 9mm to be less then effective and many in the military have called for the .308 and .45ACP to be the only light rounds used.
The military put out bids for a new battle pistols ; .45ACP DA/SO to increase safety over the 1911 model.
Bids cane back from many companies to make it competitive but the military then said the money was not there.
Did they bow to our EU partners or 180 million dollar strike fighters the only thing we can afford ?
I could care less about shots in the back , 99 percent of thee time this is criminal behaviour.
Are you even reading my responses? I'm not arguing that a .45 is a bigger bullet ORR that it causes bigger wounds, leading to more trauma and EVENTUAL death. What I am saying is that they are not the "one stop" man-killer you say they are. Shot placement is key, and unless you can hit a man in the brain (in which case caliber is pretty much a moot point), NO pistol round is a one shot stopper. if you shoot a guy with a .45 and don't hit him in the brain, IT WILL NOT stop him instantly and he WILL have time to shoot back. Will he have a higher chance of eventually taking a dirtnap? Sure. But that won't stop him from taking you with him.

I'm not arguing the legality of shooting in the back. I used it as a real world example of how .45 's are NOt a magic bullet. This guy took 5 hits at close range to the back and LIVEd. Others have died with ONE .25 to the heart. Again, shot placement is key.

I used the Marine in Iraq story to illustrate that the 9MM is quite capable of taking down a bad guy (and this was BALL ammo, NOT quality HP self defense stuff), and when you are faced with 3 guys, I'd rather have 16 rounds of 9MM than 9 of .45.

Of course all guns can jam. That's why I generally carry a S&W 642 with Speer Gold Dot's. 5 rounds of hit ammo coming at the bad guy. When I feel the need to venture into less friendly territory, I carry either a S&W 3913, OR a Beretta 92FS (gotta agree with your opinion on that gun. What a piece of art is is!)

Carry your .45 if you want. It sure will take care of those bad guys. How much better than my 9MM? I'd wager not a whole lot. The softer recoil and higher capacity 9MM wins my vote.
KBM

Saugerties, NY

#13 Nov 4, 2007
BOMB ISLAM wrote:
<quoted text>
Shoot someone in the kidney with a hollow point .22LR and it will take them out with one shot.
Four AM in a 7-11 I will be lucky if I am alert enough to mount a full scale invasion against a robber.
I prefer the more realistic approach and give myself one shot.
I will reassess my ability to move forward or tactical retreat after .
Reset buttons only work on computer games.
A .45ACP works better on a bullet proof vest .
Heavy clothing means nothing.
.
I'm sorry, but you need to do your research. Heavy clothing means PLENTY when it comes to penetration, and while a .22 to the kidneys will sure hurt and eventually kill a man, NO .22 is a one shot stop unless it's directly to the brain. The guy will scream bloody murder when you hit him with one, but if he has a gun in his hand, you'd better duck.
BOMB ISLAM

Fort Myers, FL

#14 Nov 4, 2007
KBM wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry, but you need to do your research. Heavy clothing means PLENTY when it comes to penetration, and while a .22 to the kidneys will sure hurt and eventually kill a man, NO .22 is a one shot stop unless it's directly to the brain. The guy will scream bloody murder when you hit him with one, but if he has a gun in his hand, you'd better duck.
The true one shot kill is the base of the skull / spinal cord.

I can only live in reality .

Things happen so quick that most of the time you will not have the chance to get one shot off.

In the event that I could , I can not pretend to know under what circumstances.

If someone is coming to kill you and knows you are hiding under a car are you going to get a "head shot"?
KBM

Saugerties, NY

#15 Nov 4, 2007
BOMB ISLAM wrote:
<quoted text>The true one shot kill is the base of the skull / spinal cord.
I can only live in reality .
Things happen so quick that most of the time you will not have the chance to get one shot off.
In the event that I could , I can not pretend to know under what circumstances.
If someone is coming to kill you and knows you are hiding under a car are you going to get a "head shot"?
You're disproving your own point. If someone is coming to kill you and you don't get a headshot, the .45 won't pout him down any faster than a 9MM. It might KILL him faster, but he'll still have enough in him to take you with him. And if things happen so quick as they do that you won't even have time to get a shot off, what does it matter what the caliber is? And IF you get a shot off, it won't kill him instantly, giving him time to take you out, as well.

My minimum for carry is a 9MM or a .38. A 22,.25,.380, or .32 won't ever be in my carry lineup. A .45 will certainly do it's job, but the "manstopper .45 myth" is nothing more than a myth. MOST of the homicides I have responded to were caused by calibers less than .45. 9Mm and .380 were the most common, and .25's certainly brought many a hoodrat to meet their makers.

For the cost difference in ammo, quantity of ammo that a 9Mm usually offers over a .45, and the controlability in firing, I'll stick with 9MM.

By the way, my S&W 66 .357 is sitting in the safe loaded with .38 HP. Ever hear a .357 go off indoors without hearing protection? How about the muzzle flash? No thanks. I keep .357 ammo on hand in case I ever feel the need to load up with it, but I can't imagine using it anytime soon. And the ultra lightweight J frames loaded with them are nothing more than punishment. I'm 6'2 and 220 pounds, and I fired 5 rounds of .357 through a friend's 442. Not pleasant at all.
KBM

Saugerties, NY

#16 Nov 7, 2007
BOMB ISLAM wrote:
<quoted text>The true one shot kill is the base of the skull / spinal cord.
You learned that in the Miami Vice movie, didn't you? The female cop said that before she shot the guy. Used almost that exact line.
Wayne

United States

#17 Nov 7, 2007
I have a P11 and a P32, have had another P32. Never had a hiccup out of any of 'em. I'd trust the P11 with my life, no doubt about it.

As far as 9mm goes I feel 45 is better, but it'smore of a gut feling. it's definitely not something I'd carry everyday unless I lived and worked in a really bad area. There is no magic caliber- i've read reports of people shot with just about everything and being conscious long enough to shoot back.

BTW you can conceal a 45 in the summer in Florida- it's just more work. I carry a hammerless snubby every day, myself. Main reason I carry the snubby instead of the P11 is I can get the snubby out of my pocket with a full grip, nothing to do with reliability.

P11 is good gun for the money.
Clint Bronson

Cape Coral, FL

#18 Nov 7, 2007
Just bought a p-11 and took it out a week ago to the range..never missed a beat no jams whatsoever but a horribly looong trigger pull..if you're a revolver shooter the pull is no big deal just roll through it smoothly..its great for carry amazingly light and eminently concealable..p9 model is still having some teething issues from what I hear but the current P-11's are very good
just my two cents FWIW!!
KBM

Saugerties, NY

#19 Nov 8, 2007
Wayne wrote:
I have a P11 and a P32, have had another P32. Never had a hiccup out of any of 'em. I'd trust the P11 with my life, no doubt about it.
As far as 9mm goes I feel 45 is better, but it'smore of a gut feling. it's definitely not something I'd carry everyday unless I lived and worked in a really bad area. There is no magic caliber- i've read reports of people shot with just about everything and being conscious long enough to shoot back.
BTW you can conceal a 45 in the summer in Florida- it's just more work. I carry a hammerless snubby every day, myself. Main reason I carry the snubby instead of the P11 is I can get the snubby out of my pocket with a full grip, nothing to do with reliability.
P11 is good gun for the money.
I agree. My S&W 642 with Crimson Trace grips gets carried 90% of the time, including winter. Ability to shoot through a pocket, contact shots, are both possible with the revolver, not to mention far less chance of malfunction.
uspatriotvet

Herndon, VA

#20 Nov 8, 2007
Don't listen to those who are prejudiced against
one caliber or another.
The smaller the caliber, more mechanical advantage
is needed; specialty ammo, more capacity, total
reliability.
If you re comfortable with .380 or 9mm para, then
get a good one. SIG 232 in .380 better than
Walther ( if only slightly ) SIG 225 in 9mm,
.38 Airweight Bodyguard in revolver nice too.
Look into RCBD Ammo. very effective!!!
A .22 between their eyes will stop them faster
than a 44 magnum in their foot.
Quality is never cheap in time or money.
Proper technique, TRAINING!, and awareness is key
*See Fairbairn, Applegate, IDPA, IPSC.
Practice until all is 2nd nature.

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