Great Gun Gobbledygook: The Paradox o...

Great Gun Gobbledygook: The Paradox of Second Amendment Hardliners

There are 23 comments on the www.theatlantic.com story from Apr 2, 2013, titled Great Gun Gobbledygook: The Paradox of Second Amendment Hardliners. In it, www.theatlantic.com reports that:

In the current debate over gun control, the pro-gun lobby has an ace card up its sleeve: We need weapons to prevent government tyranny, they say.

These self-styled champions of liberty see guns as the ultimate insurance policy to protect the Constitution. The problem is that most of those making this argument also strongly support a massive U.S. military -- exactly the behemoth we must be armed against. It's the great gun gobbledygook.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at www.theatlantic.com.

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Riley

Monroe, MI

#3 Apr 2, 2013
The 2nd Amendment is about protecting the citizens from an Unconstitutional Government and providing that citizenry with the tools to return a Tranical Government back to the Constitution when the ballot box fails. It is also to provide a Constitutional Government and additional resource in the formed of a well armed citizenry to defend against Invasion of foreign powers or internal enemies of the contitution. Defense of Family, property and life is secondary benefits.
So Get your history and facts right before mouthing off againt my God given Rights.
yep

Abilene, TX

#4 Apr 2, 2013
just hunters alone make up the largest armed force in the world. its all about protecting us against a corrupt gov. period!!!

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#5 Apr 2, 2013
Riley wrote:
The 2nd Amendment is about protecting the citizens from an Unconstitutional Government and providing that citizenry with the tools to return a Tranical Government back to the Constitution when the ballot box fails. It is also to provide a Constitutional Government and additional resource in the formed of a well armed citizenry to defend against Invasion of foreign powers or internal enemies of the contitution. Defense of Family, property and life is secondary benefits.
So Get your history and facts right before mouthing off againt my God given Rights.
This is precidely why you FOXLIES guys are all so stupid. you get your mis-information from cartoon characters like O'Reilley and Hannity, Beck & Rush. All lies.

The reason for the 2nd Amendment is to preserve our country from foreign attack. Your Aryan Nation interpretation is a BULLSHIT lie.

Forget the crappo 'strict constructionist' Roberts Supreme Court that throws away half the Amendment, and re-interprets trhe rest.
If you are serious, read the rest of the Constitution, and see where MILITIA is defined, and provided, in the body.

You are living a lie, pal. I know you will continue to lead it, because that is what you assholes do.
You would not understand Constitutional Government, when it clashes with your foolish superstitions and predjudices.

I do understand, and I recognize that the Roberts mis-interpretation is now the twisted 'law of the land' but it is not US Constitutional, in any true sense of our founding fathers thought.

So. I tell you again, the 2nd Amendment is provided against foreign threats; not liberal (in the founding fathers' sense,) Government of the people.

Since: Dec 07

Athens, TX

#6 Apr 2, 2013
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
This is precidely why you FOXLIES guys are all so stupid. you get your mis-information from cartoon characters like O'Reilley and Hannity, Beck & Rush. All lies.
The reason for the 2nd Amendment is to preserve our country from foreign attack. Your Aryan Nation interpretation is a BULLSHIT lie.
Forget the crappo 'strict constructionist' Roberts Supreme Court that throws away half the Amendment, and re-interprets trhe rest.
If you are serious, read the rest of the Constitution, and see where MILITIA is defined, and provided, in the body.
You are living a lie, pal. I know you will continue to lead it, because that is what you assholes do.
You would not understand Constitutional Government, when it clashes with your foolish superstitions and predjudices.
I do understand, and I recognize that the Roberts mis-interpretation is now the twisted 'law of the land' but it is not US Constitutional, in any true sense of our founding fathers thought.
So. I tell you again, the 2nd Amendment is provided against foreign threats; not liberal (in the founding fathers' sense,) Government of the people.
The 2nd Amendment was written because of the rule by the King of England that our ancesestors must turn in their guns........idiot.

The minutemen fired at Lexington-Concorde when the British came to get the guns. The townspeople of Gonzales fired when Santa Anna's men came to get the guns.

A well regulated militia being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the People to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

You see where this says "People". that means you and me, as in we, the people. I despise people like you that want to wipe your rear with the Constitution. go live in a fascist dictatorship for a few years and see how you feel about it then, although, I'm sure you'd enjoy it.

Your marxist inturpretation of the 2nd Amendment and your now labeling those who support it as Ayrian Nation members is the low point of your usual sewer line, billy boy.

Since: Mar 09

The Left Coast

#7 Apr 2, 2013
"The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government."
Thomas Jefferson

Since: Dec 07

Athens, TX

#8 Apr 2, 2013
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
This is precidely why you FOXLIES guys are all so stupid. you get your mis-information from cartoon characters like O'Reilley and Hannity, Beck & Rush. All lies.
The reason for the 2nd Amendment is to preserve our country from foreign attack. Your Aryan Nation interpretation is a BULLSHIT lie.
Forget the crappo 'strict constructionist' Roberts Supreme Court that throws away half the Amendment, and re-interprets trhe rest.
If you are serious, read the rest of the Constitution, and see where MILITIA is defined, and provided, in the body.
You are living a lie, pal. I know you will continue to lead it, because that is what you assholes do.
You would not understand Constitutional Government, when it clashes with your foolish superstitions and predjudices.
I do understand, and I recognize that the Roberts mis-interpretation is now the twisted 'law of the land' but it is not US Constitutional, in any true sense of our founding fathers thought.
So. I tell you again, the 2nd Amendment is provided against foreign threats; not liberal (in the founding fathers' sense,) Government of the people.
You don't understand shyte, boy. Switzerland is the design of our 2nd Amendment.........everyone Swiss family has semi-automatic weapons in their homes and are trained to use them.

THEY are the Swiss militia, dumbass. Get the guns out of the gangbangers hands and leave the law abiding gun owners alone. It is the law of the land, pinhead.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#9 Apr 2, 2013
Bluebonnets-Thistle wrote:
<quoted text>
You don't understand shyte, boy. Switzerland is the design of our 2nd Amendment.........everyone Swiss family has semi-automatic weapons in their homes and are trained to use them.
THEY are the Swiss militia, dumbass. Get the guns out of the gangbangers hands and leave the law abiding gun owners alone. It is the law of the land, pinhead.
~~~~~~~~~~
What is the meaning of Article 1. Section 8?

The Congress shall have Power...To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
~~~~~~~~~~
AND

What is the meaning of Article 2. Section 2.?

The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;
~~~~~~~~~~
Do you suppose thaat the CONSTITUTIONAL MILITIA is a different Militia than the one you are making up for your wrong interpretation of the 2nd Amendment?

Furthermore, The 2nd Amendment provides for the people to 'keep and bear Arms,' and not to own them in an unregulated fashion.

~~~~~~~~~~
By the constitution, the arms are provided by the US Congress, and various state govbernments, not owned by criminal galoots; and are held at home by the militia against invasion.

**********

And the Swiss have nothing to do with our constitution...and also the 10th Mountain Division would go through the 'Swiss Army,' soldiers, civilians, and pikemen, like shit through a goose. The Swiss Army is a joke, a Helvetic boondoggle for selling watches and cutlery.

“Voters elect Big Bird”

Since: Jan 07

Dump American Eagle

#10 Apr 2, 2013
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~~~~~~~~
What is the meaning of Article 1. Section 8?
The Congress shall have Power...To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
~~~~~~~~~~
AND
What is the meaning of Article 2. Section 2.?
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;
~~~~~~~~~~
Do you suppose thaat the CONSTITUTIONAL MILITIA is a different Militia than the one you are making up for your wrong interpretation of the 2nd Amendment?
Furthermore, The 2nd Amendment provides for the people to 'keep and bear Arms,' and not to own them in an unregulated fashion.
~~~~~~~~~~
By the constitution, the arms are provided by the US Congress, and various state govbernments, not owned by criminal galoots; and are held at home by the militia against invasion.
**********
And the Swiss have nothing to do with our constitution...and also the 10th Mountain Division would go through the 'Swiss Army,' soldiers, civilians, and pikemen, like shit through a goose. The Swiss Army is a joke, a Helvetic boondoggle for selling watches and cutlery.
Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
Robert

Douglasville, GA

#11 Apr 2, 2013
Funny these liberal nimrods interpret the people to mean all of us when they are talking about freedom of speech, freedom of assemble or freedom from unlawful search and seizure, but for the second amendment the people does not mean all of us just a militia.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#12 Apr 2, 2013
okimar wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't you ever get tired of being wrong?
DOn't know if I'll ever know that.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#13 Apr 2, 2013
Robert wrote:
Funny these liberal nimrods interpret the people to mean all of us when they are talking about freedom of speech, freedom of assemble or freedom from unlawful search and seizure, but for the second amendment the people does not mean all of us just a militia.
Try READING THE TEXT OF THE AMENDMENT.

Try harder.

Since: Dec 07

Spring, TX

#14 Apr 2, 2013
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
~~~~~~~~~~
What is the meaning of Article 1. Section 8?
The Congress shall have Power...To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
~~~~~~~~~~
AND
What is the meaning of Article 2. Section 2.?
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;
~~~~~~~~~~
Do you suppose thaat the CONSTITUTIONAL MILITIA is a different Militia than the one you are making up for your wrong interpretation of the 2nd Amendment?
Furthermore, The 2nd Amendment provides for the people to 'keep and bear Arms,' and not to own them in an unregulated fashion.
~~~~~~~~~~
By the constitution, the arms are provided by the US Congress, and various state govbernments, not owned by criminal galoots; and are held at home by the militia against invasion.
**********
And the Swiss have nothing to do with our constitution...and also the 10th Mountain Division would go through the 'Swiss Army,' soldiers, civilians, and pikemen, like shit through a goose. The Swiss Army is a joke, a Helvetic boondoggle for selling watches and cutlery.
Article 1 Section 8 empowers congress to call up people with arms to form a militia if need be i.e. the draft years.

The resentment against the standing army was expressed at the onset of the Revolution in the First Continental Congress's Declaration of Resolves of 1774 and in the Declaration of Independence of 1776. In the Declaration, the complaint against the standing army was defined as political in nature and was leveled against the King alone in the phrase, "He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.

What is the meaning of Article 2. Section 2.?
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;

The president cannot send federal troops into a state for the purpose of control OR federal emergency without authorization from the governor of that state......which is why Bush couldn't send federal troops to NO because the inompetent Blanco dropped the fkn ball on it. All 50 states are sovereign......

John Adams later would note that Pennsylvania's "bill of rights [was] almost verbatim from that [p.29] of Virginia." Respecting the militia issue, however, the word "almost" is one that bears emphasis because Pennsylvania clearly departed from the Virginia approach by deleting the Virginia reference to well-regulated militias and by adding a new recognition "[t]hat the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State."

a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

Title 10, Subtitle A, Part I, Chapter 13,§ 311

What I find funny is that the definition of “militia” contains the word “militia.” But, it does specifically say that even if you’re not in the military, you are a part of the militia. Nobama is trying to do what George III did and then Santa Anna.. the answer is hell no.

Since: Dec 07

Spring, TX

#15 Apr 2, 2013
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Try READING THE TEXT OF THE AMENDMENT.
Try harder.
Why don't you try to understand and comprehend it better, meathead?

“Voters elect Big Bird”

Since: Jan 07

Dump American Eagle

#16 Apr 2, 2013
Bluebonnets-Thistle wrote:
<quoted text>
Why don't you try to understand and comprehend it better, meathead?
You will note that when is comes to "particular" parts of the Constitution libs have selective comprehension.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#21 Apr 2, 2013
Bluebonnets-Thistle wrote:
<quoted text>
Article 1 Section 8 empowers congress to call up people with arms to form a militia if need be i.e. the draft years.
The resentment against the standing army was expressed at the onset of the Revolution in the First Continental Congress's Declaration of Resolves of 1774 and in the Declaration of Independence of 1776. In the Declaration, the complaint against the standing army was defined as political in nature and was leveled against the King alone in the phrase, "He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our legislatures.
What is the meaning of Article 2. Section 2.?
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States;
The president cannot send federal troops into a state for the purpose of control OR federal emergency without authorization from the governor of that state......which is why Bush couldn't send federal troops to NO because the inompetent Blanco dropped the fkn ball on it. All 50 states are sovereign......
John Adams later would note that Pennsylvania's "bill of rights [was] almost verbatim from that [p.29] of Virginia." Respecting the militia issue, however, the word "almost" is one that bears emphasis because Pennsylvania clearly departed from the Virginia approach by deleting the Virginia reference to well-regulated militias and by adding a new recognition "[t]hat the people have a right to bear arms for the defense of themselves and the State."
a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.
Title 10, Subtitle A, Part I, Chapter 13,§ 311
What I find funny is that the definition of “militia” contains the word “militia.” But, it does specifically say that even if you’re not in the military, you are a part of the militia. Nobama is trying to do what George III did and then Santa Anna.. the answer is hell no.
Excellent try.
Yet the GOP revision you cite still refers to the organized and unorganized militia. Why do you suppose the words 'well regulated' appear in the amendment?

And do you actually try to stretch this 'unorganized militia,' which in military terms is a rabble, to be well regulated?

(Hint, regulated military must include officers with commission; under command of a state governor and the president.)
Really now.

But enough of this.

The lie you espouse is the unconstitutional law of the land, thanks to this outlaw and unconstructed supreme court.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#26 Apr 2, 2013
DavidQ762 wrote:
<quoted text>
Were you kicked in the head by a horse or something?
The Right to Keep and Bear Arms has NOTHING whatsoever to do with the "militia". The use of the word "militia" in the DECLARATORY clause of the amendment. Just outlines ONE of the declared reasons for the people to be armed. The Right of the People to keep and bear arms existed BEFORE the Constitution. As shown in the English Bill of Rights:
"That the subjects which are Protestants may have arms for their defence suitable to their conditions and as allowed by law".
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/engla...
Only the American right was secured in a much better way:
"The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, and this without any qualification as to their condition or degree, as is the case in the British government...."
"....This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty....The right of self-defense is the first law of nature; in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Whenever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction."
"...In America we may reasonably hope that the people will never cease to regard the right of keeping and bearing arms as the surest pledge of their liberty..."
- St. George Tucker, Blackstone's Commentaries,(1803).
Mr. Tucker was AT the debates concerning the Constitution and Bill of Rights. He knows PRECISELY what he was writing about. He was a lawyer and professor of law at the College of William and Mary; he was elected as a judge of the General Court of Virginia and later appointed to the Virginia Supreme Court (known as the Supreme Court of Appeals until 1970).
Take a hike, you pathetic and treasonous DOLT.
That's right, just 'filler words' in the US Constitution that you don't like, so you snip, snip, snip; all gone. Inconvenient meaning, all gone.
a vet

Charlottesville, VA

#28 Apr 2, 2013
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Try READING THE TEXT OF THE AMENDMENT.
Try harder.
The 2nd Amendment.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

First, this is the only amendment that clearly states that it shall not be infringed. It clearly states "the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Not the militia to keep and bear arms, but the People.

Lets see how this reads in a different wording.
A well educated militia, being necessary to the intelligence of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.

The 2nd Amendment is not the government giving people the right to bear and own arms. It is the People telling the government that they will own and bear arms, and they will not allow the government to infringe upon this right.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#29 Apr 2, 2013
a vet wrote:
<quoted text>
The 2nd Amendment.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.
First, this is the only amendment that clearly states that it shall not be infringed. It clearly states "the right of the people to keep and bear arms. Not the militia to keep and bear arms, but the People.
Lets see how this reads in a different wording.
A well educated militia, being necessary to the intelligence of a free State, the right of the people to keep and read books, shall not be infringed.
The 2nd Amendment is not the government giving people the right to bear and own arms. It is the People telling the government that they will own and bear arms, and they will not allow the government to infringe upon this right.
Meaningless filler words by our silly founding fathers, yes. Throw them away, they don't say what you want, so like they don't exist.

Snip, snip, snip,

"...A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State,.." all one.

“It's a Brand New Day”

Since: Feb 06

New Rochelle

#32 Apr 2, 2013
DavidQ762 wrote:
<quoted text>
You really are pathetic. Do you even have an idea how much a fool you are making of yourself?
I guess. When you guys throw away three Constitution Articles, and half a bill-of Rights Amendment, and then go so creative to justify your fetish, I must be a stick-in-the-mud.

You are probably right. The Constitution is just a piece of swiss cheese; What do I know?
Robert

Douglasville, GA

#35 Apr 3, 2013
Mr_Bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Try READING THE TEXT OF THE AMENDMENT.
Try harder.
I did the three I mentioned all have the operative words< "the right of the people" and the court agrees with my reading of it, you are the one confused by the courts interpretation read the text, try harder, go by the court maybe justice roberts has time to tutor you.

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