How A Comma Gave Americans The Right To Own Guns

Aug 12, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Silicon Alley Insider

A recent poll suggests Americans will consider the gun debate a pivotal point in the 2014 elections.

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Well

York, PA

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#21
Aug 17, 2013
 

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TGO wrote:
<quoted text>
Nothing about the Second Amendment is "opinion".
>the federal government has no authority over the militia
>all able bodied citizens are militia
>all militia may possess firearms
>the states may "regulate" militia but not ban firearm possession by the militia
>the states' authority to regulate means any organized militia operations are under the authority of a state government
>no private citizens can name themselves militia commanders or issue any kind of orders to militia or anyone else - that regulation has nothing to do with the right of militia to possess firearms
>the militia serve "at will" - any militia member may join or leave the militia at any time without obligation
>the sole regulation in my state is that no private militia may conduct public drills or operations, and that the state militia not be privately funded - none of those have anything to do with the militia's right to possess firearms
Final word - the feds have NO authority over militia, and the states may regulate but NOT BAN the possession of firearms by militia.
Please explain the following from The Constitution of the United States
Article. I.
Section. 8.
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;

To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;

It certainly seems that the feds have some authority over the militia under certain circumstances...
TGO

Vernon, FL

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#22
Aug 17, 2013
 

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Well wrote:
<quoted text>
Please explain the following from The Constitution of the United States
Article. I.
Section. 8.
To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia, and for governing such Part of them as may be employed in the Service of the United States, reserving to the States respectively, the Appointment of the Officers, and the Authority of training the Militia according to the discipline prescribed by Congress;
It certainly seems that the feds have some authority over the militia under certain circumstances...
Quite simply;

What was "Militia" under the "Laws of the Union" is now known as the NATIONAL GUARD.

The National Guard is NOT militia, they are REGULAR units of the US military, and you must be INDUCTED into the regular military to be in the National Guard.

That is why there are no longer units like the New York 69th Infantry or the Vermont 17th Cavalry in the US military.

The US Militia system was scrapped because many state militias WENT TO WAR against the US.

The state of Florida has a Florida NATIONAL Guard and a Florida STATE Guard.

The FNG is a FEDERAL unit, the FSG is a STATE MILITIA.

You can join or walk away from the FSG at any time - FNG members may NOT refuse to serve if called up by the state or federal government.

While the state of Florida has authority over the FNG when it is not on federal call up, the federal government has NO authority over the FSG at ANY time.

Some never get it.
Well

York, PA

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#23
Aug 17, 2013
 

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TGO wrote:
<quoted text>
Quite simply;
What was "Militia" under the "Laws of the Union" is now known as the NATIONAL GUARD.
The National Guard is NOT militia, they are REGULAR units of the US military, and you must be INDUCTED into the regular military to be in the National Guard.
That is why there are no longer units like the New York 69th Infantry or the Vermont 17th Cavalry in the US military.
The US Militia system was scrapped because many state militias WENT TO WAR against the US.
The state of Florida has a Florida NATIONAL Guard and a Florida STATE Guard.
The FNG is a FEDERAL unit, the FSG is a STATE MILITIA.
You can join or walk away from the FSG at any time - FNG members may NOT refuse to serve if called up by the state or federal government.
While the state of Florida has authority over the FNG when it is not on federal call up, the federal government has NO authority over the FSG at ANY time.
Some never get it.
I think you may be confusing the organized militia (national guard) with the unorganized militia (the rest of us). You also seem to be contradicting yourself in your first two statements.

10 USC § 311 - Militia: composition and classes
(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.

When exactly was the militia system scrapped?
TGO

Vernon, FL

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#24
Aug 17, 2013
 

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Like I said - some never get it.

This dummy isn't aware that "45 years of age" was the age limit in the 19th century.

It is now 55 years of age for regular military and 65 years of age for militia, however even that doesn't prohibit those over 65 from possessing a firearm.

The US Militia system was scrapped after "US Militia" units levied war on the United States.

There is NO LONGER any "US Militia".

Ther are ONLY REGULAR units of the US military, be they regular, reserve or national guard.

Talking to a tree stump.

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

Since: Mar 08

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#25
Aug 17, 2013
 
The militia clause is an opinion.

Hewre's an example of an opinion:

Obama's a hypocrite.

Here's an example of a law:

No Speeding !

Opinion:

A well regulated militia being neccessary to the security of a free state,...

The author believes a well regulated militia is neccessary for the security of a free state. But others may think a well regulated militia is not neccessary to the security of a free state.

Law:

"...the right of the people (NOT militia members, PEOPLE) to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed.

That law speaks to the GOVT, not anyone else. Originally it applied to the federal Govt, but later after the 14th amendment was accepted, the Bill of Rights (bill of limits on govt power) applied to the States and local Govts too.

When you argue 'militia' you open a can of worms. Antigun people deliberately used the militia clause to prove gun ownership only applied to members of a militia. This was outlawed in McDonald vs Chicago (SCOTUS).
Well

York, PA

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#26
Aug 17, 2013
 

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TGO wrote:
Like I said - some never get it.
This dummy isn't aware that "45 years of age" was the age limit in the 19th century.
It is now 55 years of age for regular military and 65 years of age for militia, however even that doesn't prohibit those over 65 from possessing a firearm.
The US Militia system was scrapped after "US Militia" units levied war on the United States.
There is NO LONGER any "US Militia".
Ther are ONLY REGULAR units of the US military, be they regular, reserve or national guard.
Talking to a tree stump.
No need for name calling. I believe we are almost stating the same thing and I am just trying to understand your position. Please state when 10 USC § 311 was repealed or modified. You are now saying that the militia is to 65 years of age. In the next sentence you state that there is no militia. That seems like a contradiction.

The question remains is there a militia or not? If there is and they are called up by the feds, does the federal government have authority over said militia? Using your stated example of Florida - If members of the Florida State Guard (militia) are called up by the feds and the members do not "walk away", does the fed have authority over them?

By the way, the Constitution does not discuss a "US militia". I believe it was always intended as a state militia until called up by the feds.

Keep trying - you may just get through to this "tree stump".

“Constitutionist/ SAF”

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#27
Aug 18, 2013
 

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TGO, Well, are typical antigun posters (gun owner imposters) who still try to use the militia clause to claim the 2nd amendment refers only to a collective right to have weapons.

Antigun posters like them are the reason I enjoy using words like Stupid and Dummy.

Cops are the largest most antigun group of Amerikanos.
Well

York, PA

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Aug 18, 2013
 

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Tory II wrote:
TGO, Well, are typical antigun posters (gun owner imposters) who still try to use the militia clause to claim the 2nd amendment refers only to a collective right to have weapons.
Antigun posters like them are the reason I enjoy using words like Stupid and Dummy.
Cops are the largest most antigun group of Amerikanos.
Not exactly correct Tory. The point of my exchange here is simple. For years, the anti freedom people have used the militia argument to restrict firearm owner's rights. Heller changed that slightly relative to ownership of firearms in the home within Washington DC. McDonald extended that to the States. Since the SCOTUS also ruled that the individual right is not unlimited and subject to reasonable limits, the antis are now arguing over what is "reasonable". You can bet the antis will argue that only the militia has the right to firearms outside the home. That of course overlooks the fact that the BOR does not grant rights (only restricts the government) and completely ignores the 9th and 10th AOAs. But then the anti-freedom people have been doing that for years. All I am suggesting in my exchange is that we are all part of the unorganized militia and if members of the unorganized militia are called up, the feds then have authority over those individuals. Maintaining a position on the unorganized militia should at least help in beating down part of the anti's argument.

TGO seems to be suggesting that there is no longer a militia and then in the next statement maintains that the feds never have authority over the militia that apparently does exist in Florida. That logic is similar to the position taken by some anti-freedom individuals - "mentally ill individuals cannot own firearms, you are considered mentally ill if you want to own a firearm, therefore you cannot own a firearm".

One last point - since Heller and McDonald, the antis (at least the ones that got the memo) have changed from talking about "common sense gun control laws" to "reasonable firearm safety restrictions". They clearly are attempting to make their case more acceptable by using terms from the SCOTUS rulings. Coupling that new terminology with the various medical associations again raising "public health issues", means this fight is long from over.

While I agree that ownership and use of firearms is an individual right independent of the militia, I just do not think we should arbitrarily give up on the idea that we are all part of the unorganized militia.

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