Trayvon Martin Shooting Shows Perils ...

Trayvon Martin Shooting Shows Perils of Lax U.S. Gun Laws

There are 9850 comments on the Bloomberg story from Mar 20, 2012, titled Trayvon Martin Shooting Shows Perils of Lax U.S. Gun Laws. In it, Bloomberg reports that:

The Justice Department opened an investigation this week into the killing of Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old high school student who was shot dead on Feb.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Bloomberg.

Bad decision

United States

#9623 Jun 25, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Most states have laws on the books under the so called “castle doctrine” which allows any individual to defend him/herself against an intruder. The law needs procedural clarity for law enforcement and prosecutors. As it stands now, the burden of proof to use deadly force simply requires that a person imagines he/she is in danger. What about Martin’s right to self-defense? It was Martin facing a pursuer carrying a deadly weapon!
Here in Texas landowners face trespassers pretty regular.

Many have a criminal history.

They come from a country entertained by folks using a chainsaw on another human being.

In a moment of meeting, day or night, male or female,relaxing to a sweet smile can be deadly...
Some of these criminals at age 11 , male and female, are cartel hit men .....

Stopping the threat , period,

The laws of Texas, like Florida, are similar....

If they're compliant, the law enforcement, about 30 minutes away, takes them......
Patriot

Puebla, Mexico

#9624 Jun 25, 2013
Bad decision wrote:
<quoted text>
Here in Texas landowners face trespassers pretty regular.
Many have a criminal history.
They come from a country entertained by folks using a chainsaw on another human being.
In a moment of meeting, day or night, male or female,relaxing to a sweet smile can be deadly...
Some of these criminals at age 11 , male and female, are cartel hit men .....
Stopping the threat , period,
The laws of Texas, like Florida, are similar....
If they're compliant, the law enforcement, about 30 minutes away, takes them......
What type of firearms to you carry to protect your life, family and property Sir? Are you right on the border or do you have a buffer zone?
Patriot

Puebla, Mexico

#9625 Jun 25, 2013
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
Provide your proof that Zimmerman assaulted Martin in such a way as to cause Martin to fear for his life.
Eternity awaits on that one..........

“always”

Since: May 12

Ticklaw

#9626 Jun 25, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Most states have laws on the books under the so called “castle doctrine” which allows any individual to defend him/herself against an intruder. The law needs procedural clarity for law enforcement and prosecutors. As it stands now, the burden of proof to use deadly force simply requires that a person imagines he/she is in danger. What about Martin’s right to self-defense? It was Martin facing a pursuer carrying a deadly weapon!
Florida's version of stand your ground expands the castle doctrine into the public arena and broadens the scope to include threats to other persons and in some cases even private property. The law doesn't suit Florida's population and demographics or the sheer amount of ccw permits the state has issued. The vast number of unintended consequences speaks for itself.

In this case the law appears to have been cited later on as a way of explaining why George was not arrested immediately, as an excuse so to speak. That revelation drew the 2nd amendment crowd to the case adding further complications to an already highly charged case.
Patriot

Puebla, Mexico

#9627 Jun 25, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Most states have laws on the books under the so called “castle doctrine” which allows any individual to defend him/herself against an intruder. The law needs procedural clarity for law enforcement and prosecutors. As it stands now, the burden of proof to use deadly force simply requires that a person imagines he/she is in danger. What about Martin’s right to self-defense? It was Martin facing a pursuer carrying a deadly weapon!
"facing a pursuer". Well now you have twisted those words about a tight as any liberal goon could possibly accomplish! To face a pursuer one would have to stop and turn around first. And in this case not only that he would have to lay in wait to not only face but also attack. The attack being clearly evident for even the looniest of liberal squawkers. But all this comes down to is was Zimmerman in fear for his life as Martin beat him? Im quite SURE the answer to that is YES! If youre not sure just ask George.
menards

Pottersville, NJ

#9628 Jun 25, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> Do you have proof of this "molesting"? You realize once again you are making claims on a public forum that you may have to defend? Besides I would put Georges past up against Trayvons any day. remember the state can't introduce evidence it can't back up. George and his wife will make many trips on all that money from the "liable" suits.
Talk to the cousin. George's decade of molestation and sexual harrassment is well document in public press releases. To date, george has not denied these allegations. I am allowed to reference public documents all that I wish. Remember, its not slander if its true. The only trip George's wife will be making will be to prison for perjury, or is that little detail lost on you as well?
menards

Pottersville, NJ

#9629 Jun 25, 2013
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
So then how come Mutumbo swats balls out of the air all the time anyway? I mean if an object can be offensive, why not a basketbell. I hear they are REALLY offensive.
Non-Sequitor
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
That , is , absurd. and utterly ridiculous.
An object is just an object. HOW one uses an object, well then, that's another story. The one you keep ignoring.
I did say it was a "tool" didn't I? Comphrehension problems?
Real World

Albany, GA

#9630 Jun 25, 2013
To you whinning ass people that are screaming, "gun laws". I have a right as an American to own guns. I am a responsible person, and a tax payer. My guns are here to protect myself and my family from the people that are not responsible, and are out to do harm to others to profit their lazy, don't want to work ass. I challenge any of you people to do the following, place a gun at any location of your choice, in your protected home. This gun will sit there until the end of time, unless some son of a bitch wants to commit a crime with it! It's not the guns stupid asses, it's the bad people that use them. So, in light of this, I, as a responsible person, should not be allowed to own guns to protect my family from this type of low life? Screw You! By the way, Trayboon got what he ask for.
spocko

Oakland, CA

#9631 Jun 25, 2013
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> So the law "ALLOWS" self defense? Sorry but self defense is a right of all living beings. The government never has or ever will have the power to remove that right. The government might infringe on that right but that would not invalidate the right. The "castle doctrine" existed long before any law to clarify it to people like you that think you always need PERMISSION" from the government for anything to be legal or a right. ALL things are legal untill the government makes a laws that says it's illegal. Let someone stand over you and beat your head into the concrete and see how long you wait for "permission" to do anything about it. Martin had the right to elf defense IF he was in danger. Too bad we don't know that he was. The physical evidence shows George was under attack when he fired. If there was any evidence George attacked first then yes Trayvon had a right to self defense. To this date I have not seen any and untill I do I must assume it does not exist.
Oh really then why would need your idiotic "stand your ground" law? ye freaking moron!!

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#9632 Jun 25, 2013
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
Provide your proof that Zimmerman assaulted Martin in such a way as to cause Martin to fear for his life.
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Huh? What the f*** are you babbling about - what proof?
I am asking you to prove what YOU were babbling about. You said "What about Martin's right to self defense?".

Well what about it?
YOU just shot down your own premise dummy, when you said this > "what proof?".
You are correct. There is no proof that Martin feared for his life. He attacked Zimmerman ... unprovoked. Of that there is proof. It is being partially presented in court this very minute.

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#9633 Jun 25, 2013
menards wrote:
<quoted text>
Non-Sequitor
<quoted text>
I did say it was a "tool" didn't I? Comphrehension problems?
Yes. You did say that. The "non-sequitor" comment was out of line though.
It was as relevant to the truth as your "offensive" tool nonsense.

A tool, be it a gun or a basketball, has no identity that can be either good or bad. THAT attribute is only associated to the tool through it's use by a human being.
Like I said, repeatedly, it is HOW the tool is being used that is a problem. THAT puts the act of being offensive solely on the shoulders of the human committing the offensive act.
And you say that I have a comprehension problem.
<rolls eyes>
Patriot

Puebla, Mexico

#9635 Jun 25, 2013
Real World wrote:
To you whinning ass people that are screaming, "gun laws". I have a right as an American to own guns. I am a responsible person, and a tax payer. My guns are here to protect myself and my family from the people that are not responsible, and are out to do harm to others to profit their lazy, don't want to work ass. I challenge any of you people to do the following, place a gun at any location of your choice, in your protected home. This gun will sit there until the end of time, unless some son of a bitch wants to commit a crime with it! It's not the guns stupid asses, it's the bad people that use them. So, in light of this, I, as a responsible person, should not be allowed to own guns to protect my family from this type of low life? Screw You! By the way, Trayboon got what he ask for.
Yes he did!

“Evolved hunter/gatherer”

Since: Jan 08

Location hidden

#9636 Jun 25, 2013
Patriot wrote:
<quoted text>Yes he did!
I disagree.
Trayvon did NOT ask to get shot that night.
What he did was what most all teenage boys do when growing through the stage of hormones. He made the mistake of thinking that he was ten feet tall and bulletproof.
He made the same mistake that adult drunks make when they think themselves invincible.
He overestimated his prowess in a potentially deadly encounter, and lost.
He underestimated his target opponent and assumed it would be a successful beat down with him being the beater of the downer.
He was wrong.
Trayvon Martin did not ask to get shot. He expected to beat up Zimmerman and go happily along his way and post even more of his prowess as a banger on his face book page.
He was right however, that there would be some banging going on that night. He just misidentified where that bang would be coming from.
The real big bang came from the downer, being beat down in true banger form and style from a wanna be banger.

Trayvon Martin made a mistake. He made a common mistake. Over estimating your own physical prowes in the face of underestimating an unknown opponent with unknown "weapons" and abilities.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#9637 Jun 25, 2013
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree.
Trayvon did NOT ask to get shot that night.
What he did was what most all teenage boys do when growing through the stage of hormones. He made the mistake of thinking that he was ten feet tall and bulletproof.
He made the same mistake that adult drunks make when they think themselves invincible.
He overestimated his prowess in a potentially deadly encounter, and lost.
He underestimated his target opponent and assumed it would be a successful beat down with him being the beater of the downer.
He was wrong.
Trayvon Martin did not ask to get shot. He expected to beat up Zimmerman and go happily along his way and post even more of his prowess as a banger on his face book page.
He was right however, that there would be some banging going on that night. He just misidentified where that bang would be coming from.
The real big bang came from the downer, being beat down in true banger form and style from a wanna be banger.
Trayvon Martin made a mistake. He made a common mistake. Over estimating your own physical prowes in the face of underestimating an unknown opponent with unknown "weapons" and abilities.
Well put.

“always”

Since: May 12

Ticklaw

#9638 Jun 25, 2013
Aquarius-WY wrote:
<quoted text>
I disagree.
Trayvon did NOT ask to get shot that night.
What he did was what most all teenage boys do when growing through the stage of hormones. He made the mistake of thinking that he was ten feet tall and bulletproof.
He made the same mistake that adult drunks make when they think themselves invincible.
He overestimated his prowess in a potentially deadly encounter, and lost.
He underestimated his target opponent and assumed it would be a successful beat down with him being the beater of the downer.
He was wrong.
Trayvon Martin did not ask to get shot. He expected to beat up Zimmerman and go happily along his way and post even more of his prowess as a banger on his face book page.
He was right however, that there would be some banging going on that night. He just misidentified where that bang would be coming from.
The real big bang came from the downer, being beat down in true banger form and style from a wanna be banger.
Trayvon Martin made a mistake. He made a common mistake. Over estimating your own physical prowes in the face of underestimating an unknown opponent with unknown "weapons" and abilities.
Total crock of cht!

What you're saying is that Trayvon decided to jump a guy who he had never seen, had no clue how large or what sort of health the guy was in or whether or not the guy might be armed.

Witnesses have said that they were drawn to the commotion by loud voices...angry voices...arguing voices,

You're just parroting George's stories, stories that even George had to change three or more times and still couldn't get to match up.
serfs up

Ormond Beach, FL

#9639 Jun 25, 2013
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>Total crock of cht!
What you're saying is that Trayvon decided to jump a guy who he had never seen, had no clue how large or what sort of health the guy was in or whether or not the guy might be armed.
Witnesses have said that they were drawn to the commotion by loud voices...angry voices...arguing voices,
You're just parroting George's stories, stories that even George had to change three or more times and still couldn't get to match up.
Whether you like it or not, what the poster wrote does happen. Did it happen this time? Self defense for Zim? Martin's right to be there? That is what we will find out one way or the other.
guest

United States

#9641 Jun 25, 2013
i really think thug was casing the place that night to steal something. and george got in his way.

“always”

Since: May 12

Ticklaw

#9642 Jun 25, 2013
serfs up wrote:
<quoted text> Whether you like it or not, what the poster wrote does happen. Did it happen this time? Self defense for Zim? Martin's right to be there? That is what we will find out one way or the other.
That's why there is a trial going on dummy.

By George's own accounts, Martin could not possibly have known who was following him in the expensive pick up truck in the neighborhood that he was "somewhat" unfamiliar with. Martin had been to The Retreat previously and perhaps knew about the short cut near Frank T's home, obviously many living in the community knew of that opening.

The HOA President knew of it and had concerns, certainly George knew of it having been there for nearly three years, not unusual to see someone cutting through in late afternoon-early evening.

Personally, I would have raised all grades of he11 about that weird cheapazz fence allowing foot and bicycle traffic to constantly pass next to my home.

But if my home was in foreclosure and my HOA dues were in arrears, who would I raise he11 with?

Just sayin.
Patriot

Puebla, Mexico

#9643 Jun 25, 2013
guest wrote:
i really think thug was casing the place that night to steal something. and george got in his way.
Yeah that knappy headed little druggie was up to no good just like always. Is there any recent evidence he done ANYTHING worth a shit? Not a damn thing. It all depends on how you word it or twist it. As far as Im concerned when a guy walks up to another at night and hits him hes asking for just what TrayBgone got. A bullet in his ass! How many white guys do hear of that jumps a black guy for no reson? Very damn few if any and if they do they too need a bullet. Im not racist Im just not quiet anymore!
Tray

French Camp, MS

#9644 Jun 25, 2013
spocko wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh really then why would need your idiotic "stand your ground" law? ye freaking moron!!
I don't. I carried before "Stand your ground" before "conceal carry" and will continue regardless of anyone trying to tell me I need permission. Guns were used for self defense long before any law said you could so why ask permission now. "Stand you ground" laws didn't give rights. If you will do your research you will find they were put in place to clarify the existing right to self defense. How about you show just how they are "idiotic"? If I were to attack you and you tried to defend yourself you could go to jail for it, is that what you are defending? I really doubt you practice what you preach. If so please post a picture of a sign on your door saying "I don't defend myself or my property".

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