Trayvon Martin Shooting Shows Perils of Lax U.S. Gun Laws

[Tray]

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>
I have access to the same information you do dumbass.
LOL!!!

Then show how George broke the law. The evidence shows only Trayvon doing the assault which is illegal. George could have easily shot him much sooner before getting sucker punched but he didn't.

[Armed Veteran]

eternal cynic wrote:

<quoted text>
You could at least attempt to obtain he same information from a neutral source. They are indeed reporting the same.
The lack of Martin’s DNA on Zimmerman’s gun doesn’t change the case much.

I would say it doesn't change the case at all. When was it ever said that the two struggled for control of the gun?? And if Martin never touched the gun, why would his DNA be on it? Sounds more like MSM/prosecution smoke and mirrors.

[RuffnReddy]

Armed Veteran wrote:

<quoted text>
I would say it doesn't change the case at all. When was it ever said that the two struggled for control of the gun?? And if Martin never touched the gun, why would his DNA be on it? Sounds more like MSM/prosecution smoke and mirrors.

It was said in Mark Osterman's book, Osterman said it on Dr. Phil and Georges brother alluded to it during a CNN interview.

Osterman's statements eclipse hearsay as he spent weeks with George discussing the events of that night.

If the two struggled for the weapon as Osterman described in detail Trayvons's DNA would be present, it's called touch DNA.

[Michael Allred]

Tray wrote:

Had he not had a gun or the chance to reach it things could have been worse for him.

Yes. He might not have gotten the thrill of committing murder.

[Aquarius-WY]

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>
I have access to the same information you do dumbass.
LOL!!!

Yeah, too damn bad that you are totally incapable of separating fact from fiction, evidence from speculation, and woefully unable to comprehend and process it.

[Dr Freud]

Michael Allred wrote:

<quoted text>
Yes. He might not have gotten the thrill of committing murder.

Sure, and it would have THEN been Martin who'd have gotten that thrill instead, right?
No matter how hard you try to come off as 'cool, suave, and debonaire,' in the end you always end up being that loose stool in the bowl, ready to be swirled.

[Dr Freud]

Tray wrote:

<quoted text> Then show how George broke the law. The evidence shows only Trayvon doing the assault which is illegal. George could have easily shot him much sooner before getting sucker punched but he didn't.

Very good point! But I suspect that it won't be well understood, or at the very least it will be 'conveniently' ignored.
But DARNED GOOD point nonetheless!
Thanks for bringing it up.

[Armed Veteran]

RuffnReddy wrote:

<quoted text>It was said in Mark Osterman's book, Osterman said it on Dr. Phil and Georges brother alluded to it during a CNN interview.
Osterman's statements eclipse hearsay as he spent weeks with George discussing the events of that night.
If the two struggled for the weapon as Osterman described in detail Trayvons's DNA would be present, it's called touch DNA.

And were either Osterman or George's brother present during the struggle? No.

When George did the walk through the next day with the detectives, did he say they fought over control of the gun? No, again.

[RuffnReddy]

Armed Veteran wrote:

<quoted text>
And were either Osterman or George's brother present during the struggle? No.
When George did the walk through the next day with the detectives, did he say they fought over control of the gun? No, again.

You need to brush up on Osterman, he was at the scene after the shooting, spent the night with George and Shellie and accompanied George on the walk through the following day. Additionally, George and Shellie stayed with the Osterman's during the first bail period which was another no-no as Osterman was on the states witness list.

Osterman is currently employed as a Fed Air Marshall but previously worked as a Seminole County Deputy, his Lieutenant was Billy Lee who was Sanford's police chief at the time of the shooting. This is why Osterman was free to move about the scene of the shooting and "could" be the reason that George was not booked that evening as the investigator had in mind.

He was very specific about where and how Trayvon grasped the weapon, it's not hearsay, George told him, he's on the states witness list and will testify to the info in his book and also his and his wife's statements on Dr Phil.

[RuffnReddy]

For what it's worth, a curious person might consider whether George and his very knowledgeable best friend actually concocted the details of the sighting, confrontation, and shooting to put George in the best light possible.

[Aquarius-WY]

RuffnReddy wrote:

<quoted text>You need to brush up on Osterman, he was at the scene after the shooting, spent the night with George and Shellie and accompanied George on the walk through the following day. Additionally, George and Shellie stayed with the Osterman's during the first bail period which was another no-no as Osterman was on the states witness list.
Osterman is currently employed as a Fed Air Marshall but previously worked as a Seminole County Deputy, his Lieutenant was Billy Lee who was Sanford's police chief at the time of the shooting. This is why Osterman was free to move about the scene of the shooting and "could" be the reason that George was not booked that evening as the investigator had in mind.
He was very specific about where and how Trayvon grasped the weapon, it's not hearsay, George told him, he's on the states witness list and will testify to the info in his book and also his and his wife's statements on Dr Phil.

Second hand information is hearsay you twit.
The at best, third or fourth hand crap you spew is even less than that.
That fool Osterman has already destroyed his own credibility by his actions ... and he is supposed to be an officer of the court?
He violated numerous ethics protocols. He went on Dr. Phil to boot? And you think that all OK.
Give me a break.

[Aquarius-WY]

RuffnReddy wrote:

For what it's worth, a curious person might consider whether George and his very knowledgeable best friend actually concocted the details of the sighting, confrontation, and shooting to put George in the best light possible.

For what it's worth, a thinking person would be very comfortable with the knowledge that you have shown yourself to be an unthinking fool, and that is the best light that you could possibly be placed in.

[Tray]

RuffnReddy wrote:

For what it's worth, a curious person might consider whether George and his very knowledgeable best friend actually concocted the details of the sighting, confrontation, and shooting to put George in the best light possible.

Great theory except most of the "sighting, confrontation, and shooting" are on police tapes. Kind of hard to change a tape recording After the fact.

[Armed Veteran]

RuffnReddy wrote:

<quoted text>You need to brush up on Osterman, he was at the scene after the shooting, spent the night with George and Shellie and accompanied George on the walk through the following day. Additionally, George and Shellie stayed with the Osterman's during the first bail period which was another no-no as Osterman was on the states witness list.
Osterman is currently employed as a Fed Air Marshall but previously worked as a Seminole County Deputy, his Lieutenant was Billy Lee who was Sanford's police chief at the time of the shooting. This is why Osterman was free to move about the scene of the shooting and "could" be the reason that George was not booked that evening as the investigator had in mind.
He was very specific about where and how Trayvon grasped the weapon, it's not hearsay, George told him, he's on the states witness list and will testify to the info in his book and also his and his wife's statements on Dr Phil.

Osterman is only a witness to what Zimmerman told him, the walk thru, and nothing more. He was not there. Get it?

[Tray]

RuffnReddy wrote:

<quoted text>You need to brush up on Osterman, he was at the scene after the shooting, spent the night with George and Shellie and accompanied George on the walk through the following day. Additionally, George and Shellie stayed with the Osterman's during the first bail period which was another no-no as Osterman was on the states witness list.
Osterman is currently employed as a Fed Air Marshall but previously worked as a Seminole County Deputy, his Lieutenant was Billy Lee who was Sanford's police chief at the time of the shooting. This is why Osterman was free to move about the scene of the shooting and "could" be the reason that George was not booked that evening as the investigator had in mind.
He was very specific about where and how Trayvon grasped the weapon, it's not hearsay, George told him, he's on the states witness list and will testify to the info in his book and also his and his wife's statements on Dr Phil.

Let me get this straight. Osterman was a friend who helped George stay out of jail by doing illegal activity such as "pulling string" coaching George on what lies work, helped plan the "murder" but you believe the part about "what George told him about "the gun being grabbed". Is it possible to condemn and defend a person at the same time? Just which part of his story is truth and which part is lies? It is a lie if it put's "George in a good light" but it's the truth if it makes George look bad? WOW you really have no limit to how stupid you make yourself look grasping at anything you can to try to find anything to set George in a bad light. If your are any sign of what the prosecution has George has no worry.

[Dan]

Tray wrote:

<quoted text> Let me get this straight. Osterman was a friend who helped George stay out of jail by doing illegal activity such as "pulling string" coaching George on what lies work, helped plan the "murder" but you believe the part about "what George told him about "the gun being grabbed". Is it possible to condemn and defend a person at the same time? Just which part of his story is truth and which part is lies? It is a lie if it put's "George in a good light" but it's the truth if it makes George look bad? WOW you really have no limit to how stupid you make yourself look grasping at anything you can to try to find anything to set George in a bad light. If your are any sign of what the prosecution has George has no worry.

The prosecution is going to put everything in this case. From the moment George viewed his "suspect".

George behaved like an ass throughout this event and the end result is a kids death. He may not be a murderer per se but he will be held accountable for the culpability he played in this case and he will do time.

[Tray]

Dan wrote:

<quoted text>
The prosecution is going to put everything in this case. From the moment George viewed his "suspect".
George behaved like an ass throughout this event and the end result is a kids death. He may not be a murderer per se but he will be held accountable for the culpability he played in this case and he will do time.

If the state don't make a fool of themselves by race or idiot witnesses like in O.J.s case. In that case the state screwed themselves. The glove just didn't fit. In this case murder 2 just don't fit.

[Dan]

Tray wrote:

<quoted text> If the state don't make a fool of themselves by race or idiot witnesses like in O.J.s case. In that case the state screwed themselves. The glove just didn't fit. In this case murder 2 just don't fit.

No gloves to fit here.

This was never a clean cut case of self defense.

Had it even been close people like me wouldn't have questioned it. And when I say people like me I mean those who would normally support a SYG case or one which exhibited a victim protecting themselves.

Fact is George is culpable in my opinion. He created this scenario. He's going to be held accountable for his part in it.

George had a right to carry his gun. He had a right to defend himself with it. He however had no right to push this into what it turned out to be only to walk away. My feelings lead me to believe he'll do at least some time. Five to ten years?

[RuffnReddy]

Armed Veteran wrote:

<quoted text>
Osterman is only a witness to what Zimmerman told him, the walk thru, and nothing more. He was not there. Get it?

If this case goes to trial, Mark Osterman who is a 15 year plus LEO currently employed by homeland security will take the stand and defend the words in his book and on Dr. Phil or he will recant them, either way Georges already damaged credibility is takes another hit.

Osterman's book and the Dr Phil video are coming in and the jury will consider what was said. Additionally, the re-creation video with a visible Osterman helping George with his answers will be seen by the jury as well and they'll be sitting there wondering WTF.

[RuffnReddy]

Tray wrote:

<quoted text> Let me get this straight. Osterman was a friend who helped George stay out of jail by doing illegal activity such as "pulling string" coaching George on what lies work, helped plan the "murder" but you believe the part about "what George told him about "the gun being grabbed". Is it possible to condemn and defend a person at the same time? Just which part of his story is truth and which part is lies? It is a lie if it put's "George in a good light" but it's the truth if it makes George look bad? WOW you really have no limit to how stupid you make yourself look grasping at anything you can to try to find anything to set George in a bad light. If your are any sign of what the prosecution has George has no worry.

Tray, you are an imbecile, fk off.