Trayvon Martin Shooting Shows Perils of Lax U.S. Gun Laws

Mar 20, 2012 Full story: Bloomberg 9,570

The Justice Department opened an investigation this week into the killing of Trayvon Martin, a 17-year-old high school student who was shot dead on Feb.

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“always”

Since: May 12

Ticklaw

#7756 Sep 15, 2012
eternal cynic wrote:
<quoted text>
Licensed dealers must perform the background checks. The license comes from the federal government, not the state. Anyone engaged in the business of selling firearms must obtain a FFL. There is no loophole.
Thereís only one inconsistency Iím aware of. In Georgia anyone with a firearms license isnít subjected to the background check with each purchase. In Florida everyone is subjected. My understanding is because the license is issued by the Dept. of Agriculture and not a law enforcement agency is the reason for that inconsistency.
Since Iíve not purchased arms in other states other than Florida and Georgia I donít have firsthand experience elsewhere.
Virginia allows private sales at gun shows, I'm not sure how many other states do presently, Florida did years ago. I understand that unmonitored private sales can occur anywhere but c'mon, allowing those kinds of sales at gun shows invites trouble.

Once again, gun owners rights is not my topic or cause.

“Why call 911? 1911 is faster”

Since: Feb 08

Wesley Chapel, FL

#7757 Sep 15, 2012
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>Virginia allows private sales at gun shows, I'm not sure how many other states do presently, Florida did years ago. I understand that unmonitored private sales can occur anywhere but c'mon, allowing those kinds of sales at gun shows invites trouble.
Once again, gun owners rights is not my topic or cause.
Most states allow private sales at gun shows since private sales typically are not regulated. But, you start setting up at gun shows regularly youíre now engaged in the business of selling firearms and a FFL becomes required.

“O'er the land of the free ? ”

Since: Jan 09

Don't Tread On Me

#7758 Sep 15, 2012
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>Virginia allows private sales at gun shows, I'm not sure how many other states do presently, Florida did years ago. I understand that unmonitored private sales can occur anywhere but c'mon, allowing those kinds of sales at gun shows invites trouble.
Once again, gun owners rights is not my topic or cause.
Then why post it ?
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#7759 Sep 15, 2012
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>Since you're not very bright, I'll dumb it down for you.
Did the State of Virginia close the loophole that allowed dealers to sell weapons at gun shows without doing background checks?
Is the BATF second or third hand?
Being a dealer is a federal license not state. Background checks are required of ALL license dealers not just at their store but at gun shows too so any state law is just redundant. A few years ago the state of MS. outlawed sales of guns to under 18 year old's, to bad it was already a federal law but it looked good. Did the BATF call you personally? Just how did the idea of a loop hole get in your head? Did a BTAF agent show up at your door one day and ask you if knew of a gun show loop hole? Face it, you are a sucker and no life but buy any crap sold by the media.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#7760 Sep 15, 2012
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>Virginia allows private sales at gun shows, I'm not sure how many other states do presently, Florida did years ago. I understand that unmonitored private sales can occur anywhere but c'mon, allowing those kinds of sales at gun shows invites trouble.
Once again, gun owners rights is not my topic or cause.
A private sale can occur anywhere but not inside a gun show. What happens outside or down the street or over the hill is not inside a gun show and is not a gun show loop hole. I've seen a many a gun sale and gun trade at deer camp but that's not called the deer camp loop hole.

“always”

Since: May 12

Ticklaw

#7761 Sep 15, 2012
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> A private sale can occur anywhere but not inside a gun show. What happens outside or down the street or over the hill is not inside a gun show and is not a gun show loop hole. I've seen a many a gun sale and gun trade at deer camp but that's not called the deer camp loop hole.
Private sales do occur inside gun shows, that's the loophole azzhole.

“O'er the land of the free ? ”

Since: Jan 09

Don't Tread On Me

#7762 Sep 15, 2012
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>Private sales do occur inside gun shows, that's the loophole azzhole.
Seldom any more.

The FFL dealers who pay for tables frown on people walking in and selling not having the same upfront cost.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#7763 Sep 15, 2012
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>Private sales do occur inside gun shows, that's the loophole azzhole.
You need to look up the definition of "loophole", shitstain.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#7764 Sep 15, 2012
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> A private sale can occur anywhere but not inside a gun show.
Depends on the laws in your state. They are legal in Virginia.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#7765 Sep 15, 2012
Where Is My America wrote:
<quoted text>Seldom any more.
The FFL dealers who pay for tables frown on people walking in and selling not having the same upfront cost.
But they would not be a part of the gun show but private citizens not affiliated with the show so no gun show related loop hole.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#7766 Sep 15, 2012
Armed Veteran wrote:
<quoted text>
Depends on the laws in your state. They are legal in Virginia.
I have never seen the sponsor of a show allow a non licensed person a table to deal guns. That would constitute a business and be under federal law regardless of state law. The feds not enforcing a law is not a loop hole but discretion. I personally would be very careful violating a law that might or might not be enforced. California allows pot shops but they are still federal laws against them and subject to being busted.

“O'er the land of the free ? ”

Since: Jan 09

Don't Tread On Me

#7767 Sep 15, 2012
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> But they would not be a part of the gun show but private citizens not affiliated with the show so no gun show related loop hole.
The term "gun show loophole"
was fabricated by left wing politicians and parroted by the left wing media.

It is the same tactic as calling any rifle that is not a bolt action one shot an "assault rifle".

“always”

Since: May 12

Ticklaw

#7768 Sep 15, 2012
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> I have never seen the sponsor of a show allow a non licensed person a table to deal guns. That would constitute a business and be under federal law regardless of state law. The feds not enforcing a law is not a loop hole but discretion. I personally would be very careful violating a law that might or might not be enforced. California allows pot shops but they are still federal laws against them and subject to being busted.
It doesn't make any difference what you've seen or haven't and loophole is not my term. As I suggested yesterday you can simply google "gun show arrests" and get hundreds of entries from the various states that allow those shows.

ABC news produced an undercover expose' at a gun show in Virginia just after the Va Tech massacre and their buyer, who was accompanied by an ATF agent purchased over a half dozen weapons including a Glock similar to that used by the Va Tech shooter. No background checks were required, no laws were broken, no one was arrested, all those sales were legal.

Many of the weapons used in crimes in NYC come from those gun shows in Virginia.

“O'er the land of the free ? ”

Since: Jan 09

Don't Tread On Me

#7769 Sep 15, 2012
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>It doesn't make any difference what you've seen or haven't and loophole is not my term. As I suggested yesterday you can simply google "gun show arrests" and get hundreds of entries from the various states that allow those shows.
ABC news produced an undercover expose' at a gun show in Virginia just after the Va Tech massacre and their buyer, who was accompanied by an ATF agent purchased over a half dozen weapons including a Glock similar to that used by the Va Tech shooter. No background checks were required, no laws were broken, no one was arrested, all those sales were legal.
Many of the weapons used in crimes in NYC come from those gun shows in Virginia.
If NYC was Conditionally correct guns would be purchased there and the NYC police could monitor the situation.

The newest problem NYC faces is the importation of 32oz. sodas from southern states.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#7770 Sep 15, 2012
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>It doesn't make any difference what you've seen or haven't and loophole is not my term. As I suggested yesterday you can simply google "gun show arrests" and get hundreds of entries from the various states that allow those shows.
ABC news produced an undercover expose' at a gun show in Virginia just after the Va Tech massacre and their buyer, who was accompanied by an ATF agent purchased over a half dozen weapons including a Glock similar to that used by the Va Tech shooter. No background checks were required, no laws were broken, no one was arrested, all those sales were legal.
Many of the weapons used in crimes in NYC come from those gun shows in Virginia.
Was that right after trying to get a Chevy pickup to blow up or was it after altering some 911 tapes? Let's settle this. Have you personally been to a gun show and tried to buy a gun from a dealer without a background check? A simple yes or no will do.

“Why call 911? 1911 is faster”

Since: Feb 08

Wesley Chapel, FL

#7771 Sep 16, 2012
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> A private sale can occur anywhere but not inside a gun show. What happens outside or down the street or over the hill is not inside a gun show and is not a gun show loop hole. I've seen a many a gun sale and gun trade at deer camp but that's not called the deer camp loop hole.
Actually you may privately sell your firearms at a gun show. I could rent a table and place some of my firearms up for sale at a gun show. Itís legal and still a private sale. However, I begin to setup frequently and then Iím engaged in the business of selling arms and an FFL would be required to remain legal.

“Why call 911? 1911 is faster”

Since: Feb 08

Wesley Chapel, FL

#7772 Sep 16, 2012
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>Private sales do occur inside gun shows, that's the loophole azzhole.
Itís not a loophole. If Iím legally able to sell my arms privately, why not a gun show?

“Why call 911? 1911 is faster”

Since: Feb 08

Wesley Chapel, FL

#7773 Sep 16, 2012
RuffnReddy wrote:
<quoted text>It doesn't make any difference what you've seen or haven't and loophole is not my term. As I suggested yesterday you can simply google "gun show arrests" and get hundreds of entries from the various states that allow those shows.
ABC news produced an undercover expose' at a gun show in Virginia just after the Va Tech massacre and their buyer, who was accompanied by an ATF agent purchased over a half dozen weapons including a Glock similar to that used by the Va Tech shooter. No background checks were required, no laws were broken, no one was arrested, all those sales were legal.
Many of the weapons used in crimes in NYC come from those gun shows in Virginia.
Correct, gun show loophole may not be your term but youíre propagating the incorrect usage of the term.
Tray

Saltillo, MS

#7774 Sep 16, 2012
eternal cynic wrote:
<quoted text>
Actually you may privately sell your firearms at a gun show. I could rent a table and place some of my firearms up for sale at a gun show. Itís legal and still a private sale. However, I begin to setup frequently and then Iím engaged in the business of selling arms and an FFL would be required to remain legal.
That is a grey area. To set up in a venue where for profit dealers are and a place advertising as a business could make a case for you "dealing". You would be in a place were the public is invited and expected to buy guns, legally that is a business. I have not been to every show in every state but the ones I have been to the sponsors would never let you set up guns without a license. The BATF could raid, shut down, seize inventory, and take into custody any and all involved and that's a risk all I've met will not take. Of course many laws are grey for a reason.

“Si vis pacem, para bellum !!”

Since: Dec 07

Southeast Virginia

#7775 Sep 16, 2012
Tray wrote:
<quoted text> I have never seen the sponsor of a show allow a non licensed person a table to deal guns. That would constitute a business and be under federal law regardless of state law. The feds not enforcing a law is not a loop hole but discretion. I personally would be very careful violating a law that might or might not be enforced. California allows pot shops but they are still federal laws against them and subject to being busted.
A private owner selling his personal firearms at a gun show is no different than him setting up a table at a garage sale and selling them from his driveway. As long as he is not doing it on a regular basis as a form of income he is NOT considered a "dealer". Private sales of firearms are legal in VA regardless of location.

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