What's in a name? For O's, plenty

The Orioles will hold a rally this month to introduce the team's new uniforms for the 2009 season.

[Qstorm376]

"Based on conversations with several people who have attempted it, negotiating with Peter and John Angelos is like trying to eat soup with a fork."

You can talk all you want about the future of the Orioles but they are the reason they will never rise above fourth place.

The attitude in the whole organization is reflected in their late season record. If the owner doesn't have a clue about baseball and is only concerned about financial gain, why should the players care?

[Ghost Oriole]

So, Angelos hasn't corrected the Spring Training void for 15 years, but Joe will tell you that the Greek is "deftly" handling the situation.

I'm a little shocked to read a criticism from a Baltimore writer. I guess Mr. Schmuck isn't worried about losing his access in 2009. Remember, you cannot tell the truth if you want to follow the Orioles

[Sammy]

Have some fun. Ngata at FB, Ray Lewis at RB, Reed at WR and Suggs at TE. That's what I'd like to see.

[jono]

"That's great, but when it's all said and done, I think fans are going to care more whether "Roberts" and "Teixeira" are on the back of a couple of them."

Again the moronic Sun writers show that they simply don't get the rebuilding path the O's have clearly stated they are on. One where they plan for a team that will contend in 3-4 years, not now. A team that NEEDS to shed some of the bigger names who are successful now in order to stockpile prospects who may mature in a few years. To bring up Texeira in article after article after article simply shows ignorance. Schmuck is either ignoring the clear words of the front office, or so desperately wants a story that he is going to keep writing about Tex in hopes of inflaming fans to rebel against the teams stated rebuilding. The folks we are going to go after are no-names. And we will likely unload Roberts for some more of them. To go after a Tex would put us back into the same losing status as when we had Tejada. One or two all-star caliber infielders does not make a team. A dozen good players makes a team. You only pay the big money for a Tex if that's the LAST piece of the puzzle you need, not the first. Because otherwise you are spending a ton of money on a player that won't get the team out of the basement. We cannot beat the yankees or bosox in big spending. So we have to develop a team of youngsters and homegrow a contender. Unknowns locked into longterm contracts. Not big name folks with >10mill/year contracts. Bad idea. And moronic to keep writing this same thing in article after article. Should not happen and the team will not be better for it in the long run if it does. Dumb dumb dumb.

[Joe]

I am happy to have The Peter G. Angelos Firm as our advocate concerning the new Spring Training site. This is their hole card, leveraging one city against another and waiting them out, we will get a good deal, just as we received a nice package from MLB for allowing the Expos to land here. We will cut a long-term deal with Vero Beach shortly that will include many upgrades and that facility will mirror our current MLB facility as one of the finest in baseball. All in due time my friends, remember there is no clock in baseball you have to be patient.

[Joe]

Jono: I agree 100%, it is what I have been preaching for a long time and we finally have a GM who understands and sees what we do, that there are no quick fixes in this division. Let Huff play 1b next year and cement his type A free agent status, let Roberts walk also and we can collect 4 early draft picks for both of them in the 2010 draft. The fans and writers are much too worried about the short-term results, we need to think in the longer term and that means setting up a farm system that will produce for years and years.

[Ghost Oriole]

Joe is such a hoot.

Peter Angelos had ZERO to do with Camden Yards, but Joe is giving him credit for it.

If Angelos had been in charge of negotiating for that stadium, the O's would be playing at Towson State, and there would be a giant hole north of the Ravens MT Stadium.

There is no clock in baseball, and there is no brain between Joe's ears.

[Ghost Oriole]

Jono,

This whole debate is moot because the O's will be mired in last place indefinitely, but the team cannot bank on prospects.

1) Their minor league system is terrible. You think prospects are going to get better down there? You're crazy.

2) No MLB team ever wins with just prospects. Since easily half of prospects don't pan out, the O's would need something like 15 TOP prospects to have any traction. So far, the O's have ONE, maybe TWO top prospects. And for the last three decades, the O's system has cranked out maybe one good player every two years.

3) It takes prospects years to mature, on average. Guys like Longoria are unique. So, using your plan, the O's are 6-7 years away from 2nd or 3rd place.

That's not going to get it.

I have no problem with an honest effort for Tex, but the team is STUPID in going for him because he was born in Maryland. What does that have to do with ANYTHING? Heck, Angelos isn't even from Maryland. He was born in Pittsburgh.

Mike Jacobs just got traded for a bad relief pitcher. That was the guy the O's should've landed. A 27 year-old slugger with 3 years before FA. I'll take Jacobs for $5 million plus Dunn for $15 million instead of $20 million for Tex.

[Bob S]

Owners have a significant impact on the teams they own. In the Orioles case, that's tragic. And now, his sons are lining up to take over for him. Oh joy.

[Ghost Oriole]

just as we received a nice package from MLB for allowing the Expos to land here.
----------
Really?

What did "we" get?

Joe, are you an Angelos? Because I don't remember the fans getting ANYTHING. And the team didn't get ANYTHING.

The owner made out like a bandit, however.

[Joe]

Ghost Oriole wrote:

Joe is such a hoot.
Peter Angelos had ZERO to do with Camden Yards, but Joe is giving him credit for it.
If Angelos had been in charge of negotiating for that stadium, the O's would be playing at Towson State, and there would be a giant hole north of the Ravens MT Stadium.
There is no clock in baseball, and there is no brain between Joe's ears.

You said yourself that this is what they do best, "sparring with people" and they now have two cities vying for their business, I will be shocked if we don't get a sweetheart deal and if they had moved sooner their leverage would have been much less. I have to hand it to them for playing this situation very, very, deftly.

[Joe]

I don't like Jacobs. .299 OBP, he never walks, he's sitting on a huge Robinson Cano like drop-off. Huff is way better anyway.

[jimmy swift]

Bonus my take:
Based on conversations with several people who have attempted it, negotiating with Peter and John Angelos is like trying to eat soup with a fork.: That's because Lawyers are trained to FIND problems not SOLVE problems . If you every try to close a Real Estate deal the last thing you want in the middle of it is a Lawyer. Besides, Lawyers get paid by the hour not on the success of the deal so the longer it drags on the more they make.

[Nemo]

I was born and raised in Baltimore, an Orioles fan all the way. Fortunately, when I was a boy in the sixties, the Orioles had great ownership and management that built a team that made us proud as it set the standard for franchise excellence. Until the miserable embarrassment of Angeloser is gone, I'd rather not have the name of my old home town on the jerseys.

[Ghost Oriole]

Joe wrote:

<quoted text>
You said yourself that this is what they do best, "sparring with people" and they now have two cities vying for their business, I will be shocked if we don't get a sweetheart deal and if they had moved sooner their leverage would have been much less. I have to hand it to them for playing this situation very, very, deftly.

No, Joe. I guess you're CLUELESS as to how Spring Training negotiations work.

Joe, everyone gets a good deal. The Rays paid $4 million and received $27 million in stadium upgrades. The Red Sox are in line to get a huge deal. The O's are shooting for paying nothing and receiving $14 million in upgrades, per the article.

Let's see where AL EAST teams play:

Yankees --- Tampa (west coast)
Red Sox --- Ft. Myers (west coast)
Rays ---- Port Charlotte (west coast)
Jays ---- Dunedin (west coast).

So what is the bumbling Angelos team working on? Gee, let's play as far away as possible, in Vero. It's almost as bad as playing in Lauderdale.

That'll really help with scouting and transportation costs. Not.

[Manny Heim]

I think a wishbone with Neal, McClain, and Ngata would kick but.

[Aaron]

You lost me at "occifer", officer Schmuck...(You had me up until then)

[Ghost Oriole]

Joe wrote:

I don't like Jacobs..299 OBP, he never walks, he's sitting on a huge Robinson Cano like drop-off. Huff is way better anyway.

Of course you don't like him. He hit 32HR's and he's entering his prime. I'm absolutely CERTAIN you'd rather that the O's get a Single A first baseman who's 25 years old. That way, the team will lose more games, meeting your goals.

And Robinson Cano had a couple of bad MONTHS, but he's a far better hitter than Roberts.

[Joe]

Ghost Oriole wrote:

just as we received a nice package from MLB for allowing the Expos to land here.
----------
Really?
What did "we" get?
Joe, are you an Angelos? Because I don't remember the fans getting ANYTHING. And the team didn't get ANYTHING.
The owner made out like a bandit, however.

I seem to recall Mr. Angelos locking up the Expos TV money in perpetuity. That hasn't been a cash cow yet, far from it but with a market as large as DC, once they start to turn it around, it will be like printing money for whoever owns the Orioles not just Peter G. any future owner will have the Expos rights.

[Ghost Oriole]

You said yourself that this is what they do best, "sparring with people"
----------

No, I didn't say they "did it best."

In fact, they're horrible at it. What I said was that Angelos "loves to fight with people."

And I stand by that.

Angelos appears to have zero concept of Win/Win. Angelos only believes he wins if the other party loses.

And that's why no one likes to work with him. If the other side agrees to something, Angelos feels he's lost, so he's likely to renege or throw a wrench into things.

He's a bad human being, and really a terrible businessman.

And when you're working with rich, spoiled athletes, it's not a good idea to attempt to "win" in negotiations with them.