'05 draft class shrinks to one

[ezg]

lol ok Hanks nuts!! A true packer fan if i ever seen one, dont forget your meds the next time you write in. there something id like to ask pack fans coming in here ? Dont you have a forum to go too?, or is it you just cant find it? or can it be because of all that cheese curd for the reason you can't, lol now Hank said it so shall it be said to all pack fans ( cheese curd minds ) you got to love it lol

[Jlee]

Hank wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not sure where you were when Mike Tice was around. But Tice had nothing to do with selecting the players. That was mccombs and spielman etc. Tice would have got the vikings to the play offs in childress's first year. Because Zigy would have spent money on players, where mccombs didn't. Tice is a better coach than childress will ever be. You fickle vikings fans always jump to illogical conclusions about your team. Tice would have let Brad Johnson call audibles, where chilly would not. chilly is getting everything Tice did not, and chilly will still not win. Chilly has hooked his wagon to Jackson, because he thinks he can make another mcnabb out of jackson. When the vikings don't make the playoffs this year, you fans better be calling for chilly's head. Because Ziggy is giving him everything he asked for, and it won't be enough. Because childress is not a good coach. Why is it you vikings fans can't see what spielman did in Miami? Why do you think they are so bad? It's because of spielman. Ziggy needs to hire one good GM, and let him make all decisions. Personnel, coaches etc. That is the only way the vikings will ascend in the standings.
Where has this so called genius of childress and spielman got you? No place! They still are thin at WR, OL and QB, they have nothing but back-up qb's at the most important position. I'm sorry if your childress's brother, but the guy just downright stinks!

Spielman wasn't in the front office when Tice was here...He came over after Fran Foley was fired during Childress' first year and thus far has put together some solid drafts I'd have to say...

[Archangel - MN]

Green Bay Sucks wrote:

<quoted text>
Uhh... Zigi WAS here for Tice's entire first year. Where were you? Probably wearing a pick shirt and high heels to some Saturday night fish fry in Wisconsin... Am I right? Tice had a whole year to earn Wilf's respect and confidence. That's a pretty long audition considering most fast food places like the cheese curd stand you work at have a 90-day probationary period on new hires. Whatever the case, Wilf clearly didn't have faith in Tice.
<quoted text>
Tice came in with players like Moss, Carter, Reed, a healthy, Pro-Bowl caliber Culpepper, etc..., and he ran the team into the ground both ON the field and OFF the field, where team disclipline and class fell to an all-time low. That is one the coach. PERIOD. Blame Tice.
Childress came in to Tice's mess and started over from scratch. Even now one could argue that Childress' team is still behind the talent level of the roster Tice had handed to him form Green. Tice however, could not motivate, organize, manage, or discipline that talent. Childress has proven he can do more with LESS.
<quoted text>
This is getting silly. Read at your own risk:
Season / record / points for / points against
Under Tice:
2002: 6 wins, 390 scored, 442 allowed
2003: 9 wins, 416 scored, 353 allowed
2004: 8 wins, 405 scored, 395 allowed
2005: 9 wins, 306 scored, 344 allowed
Under Childress:
2006: 6 wins, 282 scored, 327 allowed
2007: 8 wins, 365 scored, 311 allowed
In four years, Tice's BEST defensive showing was 344 points allowed. Childress's team has beaten that in each of his first two years, even BEFORE he started getting new players in. When you can do BETTER with the same defensive players the previous coach had, then you are a BETTER COACH.
And you know what they say.... "Defense wins championships". Childress has worked since day one he to build a better defense and rushing game - a blueprint that nearly ALL the Super Bowl winners have followed in the history of the league. Sure enough, he's already improved both.
On offense, Tice inherited a monster form Denny Green that was averaging over 400 points a year when he took over, with Moss, Carter, Culpepper, etc. And yet, Tice STILL ran it into the ground, mustering only 306 points in his final year. That's like buying a Porsche, then driving 35 miles an hour on the freeway... with your blinker on the whole damn time! What a waste of talent.
On the other hand, Childress started over from scratch, recognizing the poor attitudes and declining talent left behind by Tice's POOR coaching. Working with a young, very raw QB, no WR's and a thin OL, he has brought up the offensive scoring average by some TWENTY FIVE POINTS points already. And that, with Tarvaris Jackson still learning on the fly! That's pretty awesome if you ask me. And of course you ask me, because I'm smarter than you, so you SHOULD be asking me everything, from this point on.
DO THE MATH.
Childress' teams score MORE points on offense and give up FEWER points on defense, all with YOUNGER players who will be around much longer, and FEWER off-field distractions that bring shame to the organization.
How much simpler can it be?

GBS: That was an excellent post, pal.

[M-o-n-k-e-y M-a-n]

Hank wrote:

With All these "high quality" players the dikes supposedly have, what has it done for them? Have they made the playoffs? have they even won a game? Yes, the answer is NO!.

Man all your comments seem like you don't know squat! What did the Vikings have before Childress. Tice who didn't have good defense a offense that was good going downhill that was also starting to become cruddy. I wonder why Childress is having a hard time right now. It's not easy cleaning a huge mess Tice brought. I thought Tice was a good coach until Childress came in and showed who's boss than Tice. Tice basically ran a zoo. DO YOU REMEMBER THAT 6-0 START THAT TICE HAD AND ENDED UP MISSING THE PLAY-OFFS? A good coach would've had a great record with that kind of start. Tice had Moss who made Culpepper good. Tice didn't have much talent because he couldn't bring in more good than bad talent. With Childress we got VERY GOOD DEFENSE THAT TICE WOULD'VE DREAMED OF. The offense is still under repair from the Tice era. It showed that Moss was the Offense only, not Tice, not Culpepper, or any other skill position. Look where Troy "butterfingers" Williamson ended up with the person who drafted him as assistant offense cord. Tice. Tice would only be good as a cordinator than coach. After all the LOVE BOAT should have showed you how good of a coach he was to his players as in NO DICIPLINE(Spelling?)! I think the players had a better time off the field than on the field with Tice!

P.S. Speilman wasn't part of the Tice ERA.

[M-o-n-k-e-y M-a-n]

Green Bay Sucks wrote:

<quoted text>
Uhh... Zigi WAS here for Tice's entire first year. Where were you? Probably wearing a pick shirt and high heels to some Saturday night fish fry in Wisconsin... Am I right? Tice had a whole year to earn Wilf's respect and confidence. That's a pretty long audition considering most fast food places like the cheese curd stand you work at have a 90-day probationary period on new hires. Whatever the case, Wilf clearly didn't have faith in Tice.
<quoted text>
Tice came in with players like Moss, Carter, Reed, a healthy, Pro-Bowl caliber Culpepper, etc..., and he ran the team into the ground both ON the field and OFF the field, where team disclipline and class fell to an all-time low. That is one the coach. PERIOD. Blame Tice.
Childress came in to Tice's mess and started over from scratch. Even now one could argue that Childress' team is still behind the talent level of the roster Tice had handed to him form Green. Tice however, could not motivate, organize, manage, or discipline that talent. Childress has proven he can do more with LESS.
<quoted text>
This is getting silly. Read at your own risk:
Season / record / points for / points against
Under Tice:
2002: 6 wins, 390 scored, 442 allowed
2003: 9 wins, 416 scored, 353 allowed
2004: 8 wins, 405 scored, 395 allowed
2005: 9 wins, 306 scored, 344 allowed
Under Childress:
2006: 6 wins, 282 scored, 327 allowed
2007: 8 wins, 365 scored, 311 allowed
In four years, Tice's BEST defensive showing was 344 points allowed. Childress's team has beaten that in each of his first two years, even BEFORE he started getting new players in. When you can do BETTER with the same defensive players the previous coach had, then you are a BETTER COACH.
And you know what they say.... "Defense wins championships". Childress has worked since day one he to build a better defense and rushing game - a blueprint that nearly ALL the Super Bowl winners have followed in the history of the league. Sure enough, he's already improved both.
On offense, Tice inherited a monster form Denny Green that was averaging over 400 points a year when he took over, with Moss, Carter, Culpepper, etc. And yet, Tice STILL ran it into the ground, mustering only 306 points in his final year. That's like buying a Porsche, then driving 35 miles an hour on the freeway... with your blinker on the whole damn time! What a waste of talent.
On the other hand, Childress started over from scratch, recognizing the poor attitudes and declining talent left behind by Tice's POOR coaching. Working with a young, very raw QB, no WR's and a thin OL, he has brought up the offensive scoring average by some TWENTY FIVE POINTS points already. And that, with Tarvaris Jackson still learning on the fly! That's pretty awesome if you ask me. And of course you ask me, because I'm smarter than you, so you SHOULD be asking me everything, from this point on.
DO THE MATH.
Childress' teams score MORE points on offense and give up FEWER points on defense, all with YOUNGER players who will be around much longer, and FEWER off-field distractions that bring shame to the organization.
How much simpler can it be?

COULDN'T SAY IT BETTER MYSELF. Fantastic post and truely shows how good of a fan you are. I am glad someone took the time and did that research on finding out the points allowed and scored per year. I agree Childress came in on a roster that had troubled players that Childress had to turn around or get rid of. I am sorry to say it, but Kevin Williams didn't reech his full potential until Childress and Mike Tomlin. Now look Childress brought in Pat williams and both Williams made the pro Bowl the have been worthy of include helping the 10 year VET pat get his first the year prior and now he has back-to-back probowls.

[M-o-n-k-e-y M-a-n]

Hey Hank, Are you telling me that Micheal Bennett is better than Peterson! Childress brought in:
Adrian Peterson, Chad Greenway, Sidney Rice, Steve Hutchinson, Tony Richardson, Pat Williams, helped Kevin Williams reech his potential same with E.J. Henderson, Cedric Griffen, Ben Leber, and more. This offseason he continued with Benard Berrian, Madieu Williams, Jared Allen, and more. All of these players listed Tice would have dreamed of having.

Look at what GreenBaysucks wrote and you see the decline in level of a great team. Tice was handed a great football team built by Dennis Green and looked what happened he took the team into the ground. Childrees in otherwise is going the opposite direction than Tice and has a good talented team on the rise. Childress is basically being the Janitor of the roster and cleaning up the huge mess that Tice left.

P.S. I wonder if you are a fudge packer fan because you hate Childress so much that you rather have a worse coach in Tice. He must be hating what childress is doing and becoming scared that the Packers have competition and it is not a gimme on the division anymore. Because a true Viking fan would realize that Childress is doing a way better job than Tice did.

[Check it out]

M-o-n-k-e-y M-a-n wrote:

Tice was handed a great football team built by Dennis Green and looked what happened he took the team into the ground.

Just a side note - It was a great (offensive) team - not so great on defense. Should be MUCH better now!

[Frosty]

WEll, Hank, they pretty much tore your arguements to shreds. Not that it was much of an arguement. Try and do some research next time before you post. Spielman wasn't here in the Tice era, sorry. And, yes, he's done well in his time here, so you don't need to worry about saying he sucks. We had a damn good draft last season.

As for not making the playoffs yet, I shrug. Isn't the whole point of the playoffs making the SB. And GB couldn't do it with Favre and a game handed to them on a silver platter. Just watch this season, the Vikes are going to do a helluva lot better than you think they will.

[Green Bay Sucks]

Frosty's right - who cares about the playoffs if you don't make it to the big game?

All you do is knock yourself down further in the draft order. My goal for the Vikigs every year is to win the Super Bowl. The next best thing is to go 6-10 and get a high draft pick, with season sweeps against the Bears, Lions, and Packers.

[Gin]

I feel badly for him, injuries robbed him of his greatness. Hope the best for this kid and that he get his health together. With three knee surgeries within a year, it could have robbed him of his greatness but he could be serviceable in a role without extreme demands.