Cameron's disastrous first season surprisingly similar to Parce...

[santipoker]

Wow.
No wonder everybody hates newspaper writers.

No wonder the written word is often compared with toilet paper.

On one hand Cameron wins 1 game he should have lost.
He lost various games he could have won.
He lost the respect of his players.
He mis-evaluated the talent of others.

These are made light of, ie.
Sure he lost...
Sure he lost respect...
Sure he mis-...

Then the writer compares him to Wanstead. ie. "he won one more game than Wanstead" in a minimizing fashion.

In reality
Parcells won a Superbowl.
Turned around the Giants, The Patriots, The Jets, The Cowboys. How can you compare that with Wanstead who went south with the bears and was fired and went south with the dolphins and resigned and the went to the University of Pitsburg and has had no success there.

Its articles like this which give toilet paper a bad reputation.

Sure, Charmin is slightly softer than a corn cob. A corn cob under certain circumstances can be just as good.

[Reality Check]

I hear Cammie's one hell of a CPA.

[BigN]

Go get Sean Payton from the Saints.

[Be more cynical]

Reality Check wrote:

Blah, blah, blah. He was 3-12-1, Dave, which isn't great but isn't 1-15. As far as calling Howard about the job, I doubt it. Maybe some head-hunter or agent called, but I don't think he got a serious call from the Giants. After all, he dumped the Canes for an upstart pro league that never got started, so do you really think he would have turned down the Giants? But that wouldn't have fit in with your story, would it, Dave?

You want reality? He would have been fired regardless of record once Parcells got here because he wasn't one of his "Boys". Even if he overachieved with this sorry bunch and won 4-6 games he was gone.

BTW- Johnson, Landry and Walsh never won more than 2 games their rookie years.

[Tamarac Tony]

Blah wrote:

<quoted text>
So the cowboys should have fired Jimmy Johnson after going 1-15?

NO they should not have. Jimmy had a proven record of sucess elsewhere. What has Cam done? Give any OC Brees, LT and Gates with Marty above him and see how smart he looks.

[Blah]

Tamarac Tony wrote:

<quoted text>
NO they should not have. Jimmy had a proven record of sucess elsewhere. What has Cam done? Give any OC Brees, LT and Gates with Marty above him and see how smart he looks.

OK do you know that Tony Sparano, the guy who will more than likely become our next head coach has been head coach in one place-some college in New Haven. You wanna talk about JJ? Look at the talent he had at UM in the late 80s and tell me how anyone cant win with that roster. Face it Cam was unlucky and just in the wrong place at wrong time. We'll never know if he was head coaching material-at least not here.

[Observant fan]

Tamarac Tony wrote:

<quoted text>
NO they should not have. Jimmy had a proven record of sucess elsewhere. What has Cam done? Give any OC Brees, LT and Gates with Marty above him and see how smart he looks.

As proven by many, many coaches, success at the college level does not equal success in the NFL.
you're proving the point that he had no talent here to be able to win...

[jahndoh]

Observant fan wrote:

<quoted text>
Welcome Back!

TY OF, I'm wondering where the other regulars are?

Cheers

[Observant fan]

jahndoh wrote:

<quoted text>
TY OF, I'm wondering where the other regulars are?
Cheers

seen woodstrock and mike 17-0...no greg thank goodness, or west-sider...

west sider was getting a bit grumpy his last few posts...he may be taking a break from the moronic posters!

cheers!

[Painkiller Jeff]

jahndoh wrote:

<quoted text>
TY OF, I'm wondering where the other regulars are?
Cheers

I'm here. Just watching the situation fly by...at this point, I don't know what to think, except be optimistic. The situation certainly can't get any worse (I can't see a Parcells-led team going winless) and I'm hoping that Tuna's 'Midas touch' of leaving teams much better than when he found them is still there.

Happy New Year!

[Observation]

Observant fan wrote:

<quoted text>
you're dumb

I guess that makes the two of us "dumb and dumber".

[jahndoh]

Observant fan wrote:

<quoted text>
seen woodstrock and mike 17-0...no greg thank goodness, or west-sider...
west sider was getting a bit grumpy his last few posts...he may be taking a break from the moronic posters!
cheers!

Honestly,

West-sider did some consulting work for the fins last offseason, and clearly had a good relationship with Cameron and Mueller.

He's fiercely loyal and I'm not surprised this turn of events has him grumpy.

I do however hope he clears his head, and gets back on the board with some of the valuable "insider" type perspective that I've appreciated from him in the past.

Who knows though, he could be doing scouting work for some other NFL team this offseason which would render his posting here inappropriate.

[jahndoh]

Painkiller Jeff wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm here. Just watching the situation fly by...at this point, I don't know what to think, except be optimistic. The situation certainly can't get any worse (I can't see a Parcells-led team going winless) and I'm hoping that Tuna's 'Midas touch' of leaving teams much better than when he found them is still there.
Happy New Year!

PJ, couldn't have said it better myself. My position on the player personnel work of Cameron/Mueller and the void of talent that is/was the 07 fins is well chronicled. I think Cameron needed more time, but he made too many questionable in-game calls (that I refused to second guess during the season, but now see the aggregate of those decisions as damning) to survive a housecleaning after a 1-15 season.

Had he made far less questionable calls, and had a few of them go his way, had the fins at say 4-12, I bet he would get another year.

That said, I'm a Cameron and Mueller fans, think they're far more classy then many "so-called" finfans we've been exposed to on these boards all season, and wish them both the absolute best of luck going forward.

There are two very talented NFL guys in the job market right now, some team is going to be fortunate to land one (or both) of them.

[Tamarac Tony]

Observant fan wrote:

<quoted text>
As proven by many, many coaches, success at the college level does not equal success in the NFL.
you're proving the point that he had no talent here to be able to win...

True he was short on talent here but that is where coaching shows up best sometimes. Not in taking a bunch of all stars and winning it all but in eking out a few wins with suspect talent. This team was chronically under prepared as evidenced by the number of false start penalties racked up and at critical moments too.
Was it in '99 that Bil P started 1-7 in the first half and finished up 8-8? That was a coaching job.
Even in SD with the stars Cam had under him, they were beaten by a less talented (at that time) New England team in the playoffs. Was that Marty? Was it Cam? Was it some other factor or factors?
Admitted that we were racked with injuries but from where I sit, Cam was unable to deal with the problems. It was also apparent that he was losing the team. Adversity doesn't build character, it reveals it.
The NFL is filled with the remains of college coaches who just could not make it but a HC who has NEVER won anywhere at any advanced level, does not fill me with confidence.
If we were going to have someone learn on the job, why not Mike Shula?

All that being said, as I have posted many times, I was ambivalent about not giving him one more year and I must say that both he and Randy conducted themselves professionally throughout the whole process.
I wish them both well although I suspect that Randy will fare better as Cam's confidence may well have been destroyed.

[Tamarac Tony]

Blah wrote:

<quoted text>
OK do you know that Tony Sparano, the guy who will more than likely become our next head coach has been head coach in one place-some college in New Haven. You wanna talk about JJ? Look at the talent he had at UM in the late 80s and tell me how anyone cant win with that roster. Face it Cam was unlucky and just in the wrong place at wrong time. We'll never know if he was head coaching material-at least not here.

Yes he was coach at some podunk Div II college but the made the NCAA playoffs 4 times between 1992 and 1997. Sporano was coach for at least some of those years so there is some history of winning.
Sure Cam was unlucky in some aspects and had talent issues but if the only way he could perform credibly is if everything goes right and he has a bunch of superstars then anyone else can do the job.
Nobody made Cam mismanage the clock so many times, no one made his teams undisciplined (jumping offsides and false starting with alacrity, nobody forced him to jump to every fan or writer demand that he start this guy or the other.
Note too his apparent inability to lead his team or to get guys to tow the line. Chris Chambers was under performing, not going all out, so he trades him mid season when the offense has already been weakened. The players disrespected him so much that Joey Porter called him out in a meeting and someone leaked it, they got in a fight on the plane and by all accounts, they stepped up their practice when Parcells came to look at them.
It may only be %30 Cam's fault but that is a hughe %30.

[Raymond]

All you so call Dolphins fan wanted Cam in the worest way. Now you are so glade to see him go--Miami fan have no ideal about football but for the real fans that been following the team since in 1st started in the old A. F. L I still have the very 1st A F L tickecket that was sold for the very 1st Dolphind game.
I am glade the Dolphins onwwer went after the Big Tuna. Now maybe in 3 years we be back on Sunday night football and That crap the call Monday night football. I can not wait to see what the Dolphins will do with thier 1st round pick. Maybe we will get a real FURTURE Q/B for My belove Dolphins team. I for 1 am glade to see Cam go. I hope the door hit him hard in the bvack side as he was leaveing

[Tamarac Tony]

Raymond wrote:

All you so call Dolphins fan wanted Cam in the worest way. Now you are so glade to see him go--.
I am glade the Dolphins onwwer went after the Big Tuna. Now maybe in 3 years we be back on Sunday night football and That crap the call Monday night football. I can not wait to see what the Dolphins will do with thier 1st round pick. Maybe we will get a real FURTURE Q/B for My belove Dolphins team. I for 1 am glade to see Cam go. I hope the door hit him hard in the bvack side as he was leaveing

For the record, Mike Shula was my guy.

[Ironside]

that was who i was hopeing for

[jpfan]

You take a guy who has excelled playing a certain role but then not allow him to play in that role - then complain that he didn't live up to his potential. What the hell? One thing about Cowher, he allowed players to do what they did best. I'm glad Joey came with a Super Bowl ring. Doesn't look like he'll be leaving with one.