Camp won't be picnic

Camp won't be picnic

There are 53 comments on the Baltimore Sun story from Jul 20, 2008, titled Camp won't be picnic. In it, Baltimore Sun reports that:

Like they've done every year in their existence, the Ravens will travel this week to Westminster to report for training camp.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Baltimore Sun.

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GHT

Portland, OR

#41 Jul 21, 2008
Rob wrote:
<quoted text> Hensley has never been right about anything....From His Boller Hype To his weekly monotone wrong predictions...what would possibly make you think he's right about anything.
lol, so true
Chris

Fort Huachuca, AZ

#42 Jul 21, 2008
I concur. Billick did some good for this team and I commend him for his successes. For his failures, he deserved to go, but only time will tell what his legacy will be.

I think you have to start Boller, he has the most experience. I hate his throwing mechanics on short passes, but he's fully-capable of managing a game and I think that's all we need of our quarterback.

I liked his performances last year. I thought he played well in most every game he started (Jets, Patriots especially) and even played well when asked to fill in for injured McNair in the fourth quarter.

All three possible starters should be treated as rookies and kept on a short leash. This team should focus on defense, special teams, running the ball, then passing (in that order). That way, our quarterback won't have many chances to screw up.
Jim

Saint Petersburg, FL

#43 Jul 21, 2008
Billick was the winningest coach in Baltimore football history. Let's not forget that and give too much credit to Harbaugh - he hasn't won anything yet.

I'm hoping the Ravens succeed this year, but think this will be a rebuilding year. The O line is inexperienced and McGahee gets winded by the fourth quarter (where Jamal used to excel). As usual, the defense will be there and I sure would like the Ravens compete and at least beat the Colts & Steelers.

Go Ravens!

Since: Aug 07

Hampstead, MD

#44 Jul 21, 2008
Bazooka Joe Rules wrote:
<quoted text>
Now, that is funny. Troy Smith will be a good backup QB his entire career. He will AT TIMES excite, but over the long haul, no chance. He is Jeff Blake, Aaron Brooks, Chet Lemon, Doug Flutie, all over again. Flacco is the man. Smith can ride his coattails to the Super Bowl in a few years. He will be our Seneca Wallace.
Well, I like the guy and think he seserves a legitimate chance at being the starter.

The irony here is that I was sure he would be a washout when they drafted him. Fifth round QBs are fifth round QBs for a reason.

But after watching him the last couple of games, I liked what I saw. I think what I liked most of all is that he does not bumble and stumble around and consistently throw into triple coverage back there the way Kyle does. He has some poise and feel for the game.

I think had Billick started him when McNair first went down, he would still be the coach.
Harry

Rochester, NY

#45 Jul 21, 2008
Ravens_Flock wrote:
lol.....
Dude, McNair was washed up. Everyone with any common sense knows that in the last two seasons, the better QB on the roster has been Boller. If he had remained the started, as he SHOULD HAVE in 2006, not only could the Ravens have still gone 13-3...but it's likely they would have beaten the Colts in the playoffs, and perhaps gone on to win their second Super Bowl. Don't believe me?
Well, then I've got a little story to tell......the Ravens, with lesser offensive talent, went to the Super Bowl and won it in 2000, with TRENT DILFER at the helm. You know....the guy who never had another successful season after the fact? That is not a knock on Dilfer, I love Trent. But my point is, Boller is capable of being a more well rounded and more gifted QB than Trent, and if we could win a SB with Dilfer, we CERTAINLY could have, and still could, win one with Boller.
Wouldn't all the haters be crapping the pants then......

WOW finally someone said it, my friend and I are big Ravens fans and we have said the same thing, McNair was washed up, locked out by Tenn and we gave up a draft pick for him. Ravens were too busy patty themselves on their backs for making that move and attributing the 13-3 season to McNair. The defense went 13-3. I say go watch the films he was washed up in 06 and Boller bailed him out in many games, 07 he was totally done and took the team down with him. Retiring this yr was two yrs too late. McNair clearly cost the Ravens the Colts playoff game and maybe a SB. I can't help but wonder had the Ravens stuck with Boller like the NYGs stuck with Manning, might they have won the SB that yr. Ozzie letting Jamal Lewis and A. Thomas our best offensive player and one of our best defensive players get away contributed to the team's poor showing in 07, but mainly McNair was to blame. Wonder how many more fans have felt that way. I am anxious to see what Boller cna do in a real offense. But again , the group of wr must stay healthy and be more productive or be replaced.
HernandezNodefen se

Halethorpe, MD

#46 Jul 21, 2008
Yodey wrote:
Its about time.
I've been going to Eagles and Colts/Ravens camps for over 30 yrs and the past ten they have been VERY different.
Virtually NO long periods of intense hitting or simulated game-like situations longer then 20 minutes - then 10 minute break - ALL day. This was the Ravens under Billick. No Oklahomas or other hard-core hitting drills either.
Eagles camps up in Lehigh on other hand tends to be brutal, often with 3 day LONG sessions 4-5 wks into camp. And amazingly, they suffer few injuries in camps as well.
I am just glad to see the Ravens get an Andy Reid disciple in Harbaugh who will WORK these guys hard, regardless of celebrity or veteran status. A new dawn is approaching and it is welcome.
Billick and Reid became head coaches in the same year:

Reid 88-56 overall
Billick 80-64 overall

Eagles have one Super Bowl loss, Ravens have one Super Bowl win.

Based on results it's hard to see Reid's teams over that time period as dramatically superior to the Ravens. It's also hard to see how the Eagle's training camp philosophy was better than the Ravens over that time period. You can criticize Billick all you want but the Ravens are one of the very few modern day teams who won the Super Bowl. Not only that, they won it in a dominating fashion. Since then only 6 teams, including Baltimore, have won the Super Bowl, 2 of them, Baltimore and Pittsburgh, from the AFC north and all of them, except for Tampa and the Giants, from the AFC. The AFC particularly our division, is not for the faint of heart.

So if you are trying to say the Eagles were tougher than the Ravens over that time period because of their tougher camps, the results don't seem to bear that out.

And, unless somethng really unexpected happens, Reid's Eagles, as tough and disciplined as they may be, will not be able to call themselves Champions anytime soon. People in Baltimore don't value that, they think its easy to do, but people in Philadelphia have yet to do it and may never.
Bruce

United States

#47 Jul 22, 2008
Drew wrote:
I can't wait for all the hitting and injuries to begin! Careful what you wish for.
Oh please, give it a break. They aren't talking about grinding the players down to where they are worthless on the field. There are more injuries by not being prepared than anything that will happen under Coach Harbaugh. He's simply going to get them to a level where they will be 100% physically and mentally ready at the start of the season.
Bruce

United States

#48 Jul 22, 2008
HernandezNodefense wrote:
<quoted text>
So if you are trying to say the Eagles were tougher than the Ravens over that time period because of their tougher camps, the results don't seem to bear that out.
The problem with that assumption is in the talent. Our defense is much better than Philly's and we always had the talent on offense, just a bad job of coaching them over the last few years. If the Ravenws have a tougher camp equal to Philly's, then we WILL have a better team based on the talent.
HernandezNodefen se

Halethorpe, MD

#49 Jul 22, 2008
Bruce wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem with that assumption is in the talent. Our defense is much better than Philly's and we always had the talent on offense, just a bad job of coaching them over the last few years. If the Ravenws have a tougher camp equal to Philly's, then we WILL have a better team based on the talent.
Because football features so many more players (33 different starters for example) than other sports it is not so much about individual talent as it is about organization and team work (see N.E. Patriots). I won't argue with you about who has better talent. I feel Philly and Baltimore were overall about even during the time in question. During the years Billick and Reid were at the helm:

Average offensive ranking in terms of points scored:

Ravens 17.6
Eagles 12

Average defensive ranking in terms of points conceded:

Ravens 8.3
Eagles 10

This tells you what you already knew, that Baltimore under Billick had a slightly better defense while the Eagles under Reid had a much better offense. Still other than the Super Bowl win, there isn't much to choose betweeen the two teams and the notion that a "tougher " (whatever that means, are you going to tell me that the Eagles were tougher guys than the Ravens?) camp makes the Eagles better than the Ravens doesn't seem to be supported by anything solid.

If the Eagles were more disicplined than the Ravens it was probably because the coaching staffs had different styles and priorities.
Bruce

United States

#50 Jul 24, 2008
HernandezNodefense wrote:
<quoted text>
Because football features so many more players (33 different starters for example) than other sports it is not so much about individual talent as it is about organization and team work (see N.E. Patriots). I won't argue with you about who has better talent. I feel Philly and Baltimore were overall about even during the time in question. During the years Billick and Reid were at the helm:
Average offensive ranking in terms of points scored:
Ravens 17.6
Eagles 12
Average defensive ranking in terms of points conceded:
Ravens 8.3
Eagles 10
This tells you what you already knew, that Baltimore under Billick had a slightly better defense while the Eagles under Reid had a much better offense. Still other than the Super Bowl win, there isn't much to choose betweeen the two teams and the notion that a "tougher " (whatever that means, are you going to tell me that the Eagles were tougher guys than the Ravens?) camp makes the Eagles better than the Ravens doesn't seem to be supported by anything solid.
If the Eagles were more disicplined than the Ravens it was probably because the coaching staffs had different styles and priorities.
My main point is that the "team ethic" is what was sorely missing from the Ravens. It depends on your definition of being tougher. Maybe a better word is "team player" as opposed to individual playing and poor coaching. I just think Harbaugh will do a much better job than Billick with his work ethic and the way he approaches his players. I thik he'll connect much better with his players. Also, by being "tougher" to me is just being a little more strict with the way he runs his practices. Only time will tell how good he'll be as a head coach since this is his first coaching job.
HernandezNodefen se

Halethorpe, MD

#51 Jul 24, 2008
Bruce wrote:
<quoted text>
My main point is that the "team ethic" is what was sorely missing from the Ravens. It depends on your definition of being tougher. Maybe a better word is "team player" as opposed to individual playing and poor coaching. I just think Harbaugh will do a much better job than Billick with his work ethic and the way he approaches his players. I thik he'll connect much better with his players. Also, by being "tougher" to me is just being a little more strict with the way he runs his practices. Only time will tell how good he'll be as a head coach since this is his first coaching job.
So you are saying Billick was lazier than Harbaugh.

I don't know how we can prove or disprove that.

You think Harbaugh's practices will be more strict.

Again, since neither you or I go through them, I'm not sure how you prove that.

Look, someone has two 50 lb suitcases and asks two guys for help getting them to the 5th floor.

Guy #1 grabs a suitcase and runs up the 5 flights of stairs to the 5th floor. Guy #2 grabs a suitcase and takes the elevator up to the 5th floor. The stairs guy has expended more effort than the elevator guy but they have both done the exact same amount of work.

Maybe the Eagles ran up the stairs and the Ravens took the elevator. All I care about is getting the suitcases up there and I don't care how Harbaugh does it but Baltimore has a Super Bowl and Philly doesn't. If Harbaugh doesn't bring another one here he will be a failure.
HernandezNodefen se

Halethorpe, MD

#52 Jul 24, 2008
Bruce,

P.S., the Ravens have a team ethic. The defense rules all; the special teams and the offense do their thing and get out of the defense's way. And they better not screw it up too much. Harbaugh is here to install a new one.

Cheers,
Bruce

United States

#53 Jul 29, 2008
HernandezNodefense wrote:
<quoted text>
So you are saying Billick was lazier than Harbaugh.
I don't know how we can prove or disprove that.
You think Harbaugh's practices will be more strict.
Again, since neither you or I go through them, I'm not sure how you prove that.
Look, someone has two 50 lb suitcases and asks two guys for help getting them to the 5th floor.
Guy #1 grabs a suitcase and runs up the 5 flights of stairs to the 5th floor. Guy #2 grabs a suitcase and takes the elevator up to the 5th floor. The stairs guy has expended more effort than the elevator guy but they have both done the exact same amount of work.
Maybe the Eagles ran up the stairs and the Ravens took the elevator. All I care about is getting the suitcases up there and I don't care how Harbaugh does it but Baltimore has a Super Bowl and Philly doesn't. If Harbaugh doesn't bring another one here he will be a failure.
I don't have to prove that the practices are tougher. I just take the cue from the reporters who have reported from the practices and harbaugh himself on what his work ethic is.

and as a matter of record, IMO, yes, I think billick was way to soft. the only good thing is that at the time you had a tough Defensive coach who was much tougher on his defense and the only reason they won the Super Bowl was because of the defense. They won a Super Bowl in spite of Billick, not because of him. He happened to have the right talent at the right time with a lot of luck thrown in (which every team needs to win the SB). And I can prove that because after they won the SB and the Ravens got rid of players because of the salary cap, we never got close to another SB again. I agree that I don't care how it's doen, just as long as we can win another SB. I'm just saying that I think harbaugh will do a better job. Just my opinion like everyone else's in here. Doesn't make me right or wrong and there's no way of telling until after the season.

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