Look in mirror

In the aftermath of Monday night's devastating 27-24 loss to the unbeaten New England Patriots, the Ravens refused to say they were outplayed. Full Story
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Patriots Fan

Leominster, MA

#1 Dec 5, 2007
You write "From the debatable holding call on Jamaine Winborne to the controversial juggling touchdown grab by Gaffney, the Ravens can point to instances of feeling robbed by the officials" and yet neglect the obvious penalty (ies) on the games final play. Winborne held. Nothing to debate. I think the ball was caught but even if you want to maintain it was not, you still have Brady at the 4 with three downs against a team that had assumed the fetal position. The Patriots were battled for 45 minutes and then it was obvious that the Ravens looked at the scoreboard, realized what they were about to do and crapped the bed.
Chi Chi

Towson, MD

#2 Dec 5, 2007
Patriots Fan wrote:
You write "From the debatable holding call on Jamaine Winborne to the controversial juggling touchdown grab by Gaffney, the Ravens can point to instances of feeling robbed by the officials" and yet neglect the obvious penalty (ies) on the games final play. Winborne held. Nothing to debate. I think the ball was caught but even if you want to maintain it was not, you still have Brady at the 4 with three downs against a team that had assumed the fetal position. The Patriots were battled for 45 minutes and then it was obvious that the Ravens looked at the scoreboard, realized what they were about to do and crapped the bed.
The real story of this game was how your defense good exposed by one of the worst offenses in the NFL. You better hope that you keep scoring 40 points every game and getting help from the refs because your defense can't stop anybody.
Patriots Fan

Leominster, MA

#3 Dec 5, 2007
Thats the difference. A real fan of the game knows that there are shortcomings in the Patriot's game (I accept that). A yahoo homer holds to the concept that the team was screwed by the officials. I notice that you did not comment on the outright mugging that took place on the final play or the fact that Winborne still has a Patriot's jersey in his hands today.
Pete I

Canoga Park, CA

#4 Dec 5, 2007
Hey Hensley,

Instead of focusing on the Ravens shortcomings which you & your dogging Sunpaper (Preston, Maese, etc.) writers are always prone to do, why don't you give them credit for playing a good game? They played with passion, heart, & toughness. They were emotional at the end because they hated losing. How about cutting them some slack. How about focusing on the positives - better offensive line play, Kyle Boller's play (beyond just the interception), Willis' dominance, the return of Rolle and McCalister, the emergence of Haloti Ngata, etc. I bet even if the Ravens won, you would still be dogging Billick for his play calling and Boller for his interception. I'm sick of you guys at the Sunpapers always dogging our team. Get a job in Pittsburgh if you like rag on the Ravens so much. Or start covering the Orioles who the Sunpapers seem to treat with kid's glove, even though every August for ten years or so, they seem to mail it in.
Pete I

Canoga Park, CA

#5 Dec 5, 2007
Patriots Fan wrote:
Thats the difference. A real fan of the game knows that there are shortcomings in the Patriot's game (I accept that). A yahoo homer holds to the concept that the team was screwed by the officials. I notice that you did not comment on the outright mugging that took place on the final play or the fact that Winborne still has a Patriot's jersey in his hands today.
Hey Patriots Fan,

So what are you, an intelligent fan of the game or a yahoo homer? Doesn't rooting for your team and criticizing your opponent (& their fans) make you a yahoo Patriots homer. Yeah, call me a Ravens yahoo homer - I'm not ashamed. But don't tell me that the Ravens laid down in a fetal position at the end - because they didn't. They gave the pretty boys from New England a beating & exposed alot of their weaknesses & almost embarrassed the Patriots ESPN network, even though no one gave them a chance to win.
Everett

United States

#6 Dec 5, 2007
Ravens played a great game now lets see how they bounce back and play another good team this week !
Rick

Glen Burnie, MD

#7 Dec 5, 2007
They play great and deserve to b#tich about thr officials. To put forth that effort and be stopped because of poor officiating is not what footballs about. League needs to clean up their act on the officials. The ravens will always be complaining because of past history with the officials.
mike a

Frederick, MD

#8 Dec 5, 2007
losers do what losers do.......LOSE
Macadamia

Tampa, FL

#9 Dec 5, 2007
Yes, continue to pile on with the rest of the Sun writers Jamison. You guys have to be the biggest bunch of pansies I have every seen or heard. The Ravens played their butts off, got jobbed by the refs, and you expect them to smile and turn the other cheek? It's football man, a game of passion. Why don't you go right for the lovey-dovey Pats fans who have grown so used to preferential treatment by the NFL and the Pats-friendly ESPN types that they can't even admit it when they've been handed a W.
Patriots Fan

Leominster, MA

#10 Dec 5, 2007
A question for the Ravens fans: What are the bad calls that you are crying about? Still, nobody has acknowledged that on the last play of the game the Ravens could have been charged with assault let alone flagged for pass interference. Why are you not complaining about that?

Am I a yahoo homer? I said the Ravens played great for 45 minutes. Here, read it again "The Patriots were battled for 45 minutes and then it was obvious that the Ravens looked at the scoreboard, realized what they were about to do and crapped the bed." A team having a losing record almost beat the most feared team in the game this year and then choked. The officials did not lose the game, Rex Ryan & the players did.

Are you disputing the point that the team melted down? Did you watch the game?
Randy

Lanham, MD

#11 Dec 5, 2007
mike a wrote:
losers do what losers do.......LOSE
Uh what's the "a" stand for Mike.
No wait. Let me guess.....
A**HOLE.
Chip

Owings Mills, MD

#12 Dec 5, 2007
Perhaps we should add Baltimore sports writers to the top of the list of those out to "get" the Ravens. While I'm not going to say the Ravens' players were right to question all the calls (although I agree that some/most of them were questionable), your analysis of why they lost is totally off the mark.

Turnovers: To even suggest that Boller's one interception was the reason the Ravens lost is ridiculous. You write: "By not taking that risk, the Ravens would have had a chance for a 47-yard field goal..." Yes, a 47-yard field goal INTO a 20 mph wind! The chance of that being good is about 1,000 to 1! You may recall, if you were watching the game, that is, that in the second quarter the Ravens went for it on 4th and 6 from the New England 27 yard line, rather than attempting a 44-yard field goal INTO the wind. So if Boller's pass had fallen incomplete instead of intercepted, and the Ravens tried a 47-yard field goal that fell 20 yards short of the end zone, I have a feeling you and all the other Sun columnists would be calling for Billick's head for trying a field goal everyone knew would fail!!

PLAY CALLING: "One reason the Ravens decided to throw was New England stacked the line of scrimmage in the fourth quarter, holding McGahee to 4 yards on six carries. But given how the Ravens' offensive line had dominated all game, especially on the left side, the safer bet would have been handing off to McGahee." Safer in what way? Destined to fail? It doesn't matter how the Ravens offensive line had dominated Patriots earlier in the game (when they weren't stacking the line). The Patriots had changed and were stacking the line and stopping the Ravens running cold (to the tune of .6 yards per carry, as you point out). So why exactly do you think the Ravens would have been successful against the Patriots stacked line on this one play??? Surprise is the most valuable asset the offense has. I thought the call was brilliant - it just didn't work.

That's the problem with criticizing play calling: It's so easy to do after the fact. And the biggest difference between good play calling and bad play calling? The execution by the players. When the players execute, every play looks good. And when they don't execute, there is always some idiot (writer or fan) who can scream: "It would have worked if they had run a different play."

UNDISIPLINED BEHAVIOR: At least you didn't make the mistake (as your fellow Sun sportswriters did) of blaming Bart Scott's bone-headed conduct for losing the game. Others in your paper wrote that the penalties took away valuable "field position" the Ravens could have used on their last desperation drive. The truth is Bart Scott's penalties had essentially no effect on the game. The Patriots were kicking with the wind, and even without the penalties, would have likely kicked the ball off into the end zone for a touchback. Which is exactly what happened with the penalties.

Now that doesn't excuse Scott for the penalties. Yes, the Ravens have more than their share of hotheaded players. But it's now Brian Billick's fault? He has to make it clear that "there are consequences for such actions." And what do you suggest the consequences be? Should he fine his star player? How much should he fine him? And how much will it really effect someone making $5 million/year? Or maybe he should just sit him on the bench on not let him play? Yeah, that won't hurt the team. Funny how these kinds of penalties weren't a big problem last year, when we were going 13-3 and everyone was happy. Could it be that frustration is the biggest cause of the lack of discipline?? Don't worry, I'm sure you'll find some way to pin all the blame on Billick...
Bucs Fan

Brandon, FL

#13 Dec 5, 2007
The truth is that both teams played fairly well in awful windy conditions. The game could have gone either way. If the Ravens' coaching staff doesn't call a time out, they get a win. It's as simple as that. The whole country took note of that. The Pats are still a good football team, but luck never hurts either. They're just not invincible.
Pete I

Canoga Park, CA

#14 Dec 5, 2007
Patriots Fan wrote:
You write "From the debatable holding call on Jamaine Winborne to the controversial juggling touchdown grab by Gaffney, the Ravens can point to instances of feeling robbed by the officials" and yet neglect the obvious penalty (ies) on the games final play. Winborne held. Nothing to debate. I think the ball was caught but even if you want to maintain it was not, you still have Brady at the 4 with three downs against a team that had assumed the fetal position. The Patriots were battled for 45 minutes and then it was obvious that the Ravens looked at the scoreboard, realized what they were about to do and crapped the bed.
Hey Yahoo Patriots homer,

You seem to delete the part about a team assuming a fetal position at the end of the game. Yeah, I saw the game and in my opinion the Ravens didn't lay down in the 4th quarter. Are you claiming that the last drive was easy for the Patriots? As I recall, fortune went the Pats way for two 4th down conversions where they were stopped by the 'laying in a fetal position' Ravens only to be negated by a coaches timeout & a Patriots false start penalty. I don't call that laying down. They fought to the end.
Eric

Houston, TX

#15 Dec 5, 2007
This game can't be blamed on the referee's. If kyle boller does not throw an interception on a key drive in the forth quarter we get at least 3 points and put the game away. Also the ravens had two possetions in which they went 3 and out to give the ball right back to the best team in the NFL. This game did not end in the last two minutes. You can't keep giving Tom Brady that many opportunities to win
susan glen burnie

Miami, FL

#16 Dec 5, 2007
put all the crap that happened in the last couple of minutes in perspective. they held them on 4th and one and if idiot rex ryan hadn't called a time out the game was over I can understand them being frustrated. They played their hearts out and it's blown because of micro managing of the coaches. Not to mention that fact that ryan by league rules is not even allowed to call a time out so why did they let him. That is what spawned all the other things. We beat the Patriots THEY AREN'T WHO WE THOUGHT THEY WERE
Another Pats fan

Concord, MA

#17 Dec 5, 2007
What a game. The Ravens played there best game of the year. It was great pound in your face football from the Ravens. This game is as good as it gets. A lot of mistakes from both sides. I hope this game put some steam into the Ravens and they kick Indys butt. The way I see it,I only like two teams. The Pats and who ever is playing the Colts.
RavensEqualNoCla ss

Southbury, CT

#18 Dec 5, 2007
The Ravens have no class and no smarts. They are a dumb team that also plays dirty. I hope they have fun watching the playoffs from home. What was all that rolling around on the grass stuff?
And throwing a flag into the stands? Classy (not).
They grab and hit after the play is over. A dirty team.
They call dumb pass plays when they should run. A dumb team.
And when they lose they blame the refs. No class.
Cry Babies

United States

#19 Dec 5, 2007
I have never seen a bunch of whining cry babies like the Ravens. Since this team came to Baltimore all they have done is cry about the officiating. It starts with the alleged team leader Ray Cry Baby Lewis, and continues to the usual suspects. I've never once heard Matt Stover blame the officiating, the weather, or anyone but his self when he misses a field goal, as rare as that occurs. Regardless of what occured he points the finger at no one but himself. That's called CLASS. Look back at every single loss this team has been handed them throughout the Lewis years and it's always the fault of bad officiating. GROW UP Ravens and be MEN for a change and accept the blame where it belongs: in the mirror.
Nonamesunderthew ater

Zalaegerszeg, Hungary

#20 Dec 5, 2007
Patriots Fan wrote:
You write "From the debatable holding call on Jamaine Winborne to the controversial juggling touchdown grab by Gaffney, the Ravens can point to instances of feeling robbed by the officials" and yet neglect the obvious penalty (ies) on the games final play. Winborne held. Nothing to debate. I think the ball was caught but even if you want to maintain it was not, you still have Brady at the 4 with three downs against a team that had assumed the fetal position. The Patriots were battled for 45 minutes and then it was obvious that the Ravens looked at the scoreboard, realized what they were about to do and crapped the bed.
Yes debatable call on Winborne. You can debate: holding or illegal contact. The end is the same: had to call and Pats with first down.

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