Vikings' Frazier is real character guy

Dec 26, 2010 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Chicago Sun-Times

Vikings interim coach Leslie Frazier says he felt a little unsure about taking over the team after former boss Brad Childress was fired Nov.

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“We've been Norv'ed”

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Erie

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#1
Dec 26, 2010
 

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Pioli is the guy the VIKES could use in a big way right now..........wonder if the Chiefs would consider sub-letting him out for awhile?
Laughing Bear Fan

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#2
Dec 27, 2010
 

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Chilly's looking for work. Maybe he'll come back for the old hometown, deflated metro-dump, our QB is a diva, discount. As Paul Krewe in the longest yard said "If it worked once, it will work again."
Harry

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#3
Dec 27, 2010
 
Laughing Bear Fan wrote:
Chilly's looking for work. Maybe he'll come back for the old hometown, deflated metro-dump, our QB is a diva, discount. As Paul Krewe in the longest yard said "If it worked once, it will work again."
Paul "Wrecking" Krewe? Good movie reference, if you are mentioning the first movie.

Chilly may have a job in San Fransisco.

“We've been Norv'ed”

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#4
Dec 27, 2010
 
Pioli re-builds teams and is a superb judge of talent.........good friends with BB and is the "son in law" of Parcells..........Harry he would be the perfect GM for the Vikes.
Midnight Rambler

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#5
Dec 27, 2010
 
erie-vike fan wrote:
Pioli re-builds teams and is a superb judge of talent.........good friends with BB and is the "son in law" of Parcells..........Harry he would be the perfect GM for the Vikes.
The Patriots begin and end with Belichek. Its his team and when Pioli left we didn't skip a beat. I'd have to go over the drafts during his tenure (which I'm too lazy to do) to gauge his effectivness and even that would be inconclusive. Belichek is a brilliant mind who could have been a successful banker, architect or lawyer etc. He has somehow managed to strip the game to its essentials and turn it into a chess game that only he fully understands - I certainly don't. A "Belichek guy" is a player who studies hard, follows orders, and does his job. Word around the league is that if you join the Patriots you'll have to put in about twice the amount of prep time. This is not a place "talented" players necessarily like to go. Certainly the Chiefs (NE Pats west) have done well importing the Belichek management model with pretty much everything and everyone except Bill himself. I really doubt Pioli will leave the Cheifs but Parcells and Belichek are part of the same tree. I'd bet Parcells could bring in a master of the game who could get the Vikings competing at a high level, but he'd demand absolute control with no promise of an extended stay. Coughlin is a big Parcells guy. If the Giants bail I'd snatch him up in a second.

“We've been Norv'ed”

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Erie

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#6
Dec 28, 2010
 
Midnight Rambler wrote:
<quoted text>
The Patriots begin and end with Belichek. Its his team and when Pioli left we didn't skip a beat. I'd have to go over the drafts during his tenure (which I'm too lazy to do) to gauge his effectivness and even that would be inconclusive. Belichek is a brilliant mind who could have been a successful banker, architect or lawyer etc. He has somehow managed to strip the game to its essentials and turn it into a chess game that only he fully understands - I certainly don't. A "Belichek guy" is a player who studies hard, follows orders, and does his job. Word around the league is that if you join the Patriots you'll have to put in about twice the amount of prep time. This is not a place "talented" players necessarily like to go. Certainly the Chiefs (NE Pats west) have done well importing the Belichek management model with pretty much everything and everyone except Bill himself. I really doubt Pioli will leave the Cheifs but Parcells and Belichek are part of the same tree. I'd bet Parcells could bring in a master of the game who could get the Vikings competing at a high level, but he'd demand absolute control with no promise of an extended stay. Coughlin is a big Parcells guy. If the Giants bail I'd snatch him up in a second.
I know he is occupied elsewhere Rambler..........just outlining a blueprint for the kind of guy I would love to see the Vikes have at the newly-HOPEFULLY-created position of GM, soon, as the Vikes currently don't have one..........hence you get the type of moves, like cutting Moss and getting nada in return while losing a valuable pick, due to too much power being placed in the hands of our former coach.

“We've been Norv'ed”

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#7
Dec 28, 2010
 
They did win 3 SB's while Pioli was your GM.........................

“We've been Norv'ed”

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#8
Dec 28, 2010
 
Midnight Rambler wrote:
<quoted text>
The Patriots begin and end with Belichek. Its his team and when Pioli left we didn't skip a beat. I'd have to go over the drafts during his tenure (which I'm too lazy to do) to gauge his effectivness and even that would be inconclusive. Belichek is a brilliant mind who could have been a successful banker, architect or lawyer etc. He has somehow managed to strip the game to its essentials and turn it into a chess game that only he fully understands - I certainly don't. A "Belichek guy" is a player who studies hard, follows orders, and does his job. Word around the league is that if you join the Patriots you'll have to put in about twice the amount of prep time. This is not a place "talented" players necessarily like to go. Certainly the Chiefs (NE Pats west) have done well importing the Belichek management model with pretty much everything and everyone except Bill himself. I really doubt Pioli will leave the Cheifs but Parcells and Belichek are part of the same tree. I'd bet Parcells could bring in a master of the game who could get the Vikings competing at a high level, but he'd demand absolute control with no promise of an extended stay. Coughlin is a big Parcells guy. If the Giants bail I'd snatch him up in a second.
OK Rambler....I looked at your 1st round guys from 01-08.......you peeked my interest lol.

Seymour-Watson-Wilfork-Mankins -Mayo-Meriweather-Maroney..... .....not to shabby buddy..........what is it with all the W's and M's..........

“Zimmer Turner Overdrive”

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#9
Dec 28, 2010
 
lol, BB wouldn't look quite so brilliant without brady. The injury to bledsoe made BB. before that, he was just a guy who got fired regularly.

“Zimmer Turner Overdrive”

Since: Jan 07

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#10
Dec 28, 2010
 

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I bet if Frazier's the head coach, Mike Singletary's the DC. Bet he'd be great in that role.

“We've been Norv'ed”

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Erie

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#11
Dec 28, 2010
 
Purple Faithful wrote:
I bet if Frazier's the head coach, Mike Singletary's the DC. Bet he'd be great in that role.
Hey..........PF, you may have something there.........I agree, Singletary just may be a great fit at that position.

Vikes gotta show up tonite at the very least, Frazier's future as head coach in this league MAY, REPEAT MAY, depend on the performance of his players these last two games.
Midnight Rambler

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#12
Dec 29, 2010
 
erie-vike fan wrote:
<quoted text>OK Rambler....I looked at your 1st round guys from 01-08.......you peeked my interest lol.
Seymour-Watson-Wilfork-Mankins -Mayo-Meriweather-Maroney..... .....not to shabby buddy..........what is it with all the W's and M's..........
I think Parcells is the guy you want assuming he doesn't want to retire. My sense is he may be done but I'm not sure. To the extent, if any, Pioli might obtain Parcell's imput I suppose he could be marginally valuable. Jimmy Johnson is long gone... what a waste. Saban is great too but he apparently doesn't like the pros. You may disagree but Mangini is a pretty good coach and he may be outta Ceveland. I still think Coughlin would fit if the Giants are stupid enough to dump him... he's a good friend of Parcells too. Definitely stay away from the big names being thrown around the media - isn't it interesting that all they also work for the media as commentators. A good NFL coordinator has always been fertile ground. If you could get the Saints D coordinator that would be a real coup. Of course what I'm offering here is fairly conventional wisdom. For real insight I wonder what TMD thinks, especially with his knowledge of the NCAA. He's over in the "Brady is Overrated" section.
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Belichek probably had a lot of input on those 1st round picks and definitely had final approval. Who's to say Pioli wasn't just a secretary/gopher doing Bill's bidding. I think it suspicious that the Pats let him leave so easily... just like McDaniels and Moss. Of the seven 1st round choices you mentioned four of them turned out good - not particularly great considering its the first round. Meriwether's been dropped from the starting lineup this year notwithstanding his Pro Bowl selection which was based on name recognition. Watson was something of a bust and Maroney was definitely a bust. Its my sense that Pioli's Wilfork and Mayo picks were on direct orders from Bill.
Midnight Rambler

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#13
Dec 29, 2010
 
erie-vike fan wrote:
They did win 3 SB's while Pioli was your GM..........
It just occurred to me that you're looking for a GM and I've been offering up coaching prospects... my bad. I don't know enough about Frazier outside of what others say, but you may be OK at the coaching position and IMO that's all that counts. A good coach is the CEO, COO, and CFO all rolled into one. With a good coach the scouting apparatus, personal directors, and even the GM are functionaries - a direct extension of the coaches mind. There's no question that every detail in the Pats organization can be traced back to a blueprint in Belichek's head. If Frazier is any good he will build up that kind of infrastructure around himself and that will take AT LEAST a year or two. Of course you'll need an owner who gives his coach the freedom to be himself without interfering and that's not a given in the NFL. The fact that your owner is holding Minny hostage over the issue of a free stadium tells me he's a shmuck but I don't know the details.
.
In sum, a good owner precedes success, followed by a good coach. I wouldn't be overly concerned with the GM, player director, etc.

“Zimmer Turner Overdrive”

Since: Jan 07

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#14
Dec 29, 2010
 
Parcells has been living off the past for a long, long, time. He doesn't have it anymore, because he doesn't have the same commitment. He still has the same philosophy, though, which is why he passed on Matt Ryan & drafted Jake Long in his rebuilding of Miami. Parcells has now left Miami mid-season before his rebuilding failure became completely evident. Miami will now be in position to rebuild. Maybe they'll take a qb? Anyway, Parcells is a does more with less guy, but i don't think that means we should just try & have less, lol.

“We've been Norv'ed”

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Erie

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#15
Dec 29, 2010
 
Midnight Rambler wrote:
<quoted text>
It just occurred to me that you're looking for a GM and I've been offering up coaching prospects... my bad. I don't know enough about Frazier outside of what others say, but you may be OK at the coaching position and IMO that's all that counts. A good coach is the CEO, COO, and CFO all rolled into one. With a good coach the scouting apparatus, personal directors, and even the GM are functionaries - a direct extension of the coaches mind. There's no question that every detail in the Pats organization can be traced back to a blueprint in Belichek's head. If Frazier is any good he will build up that kind of infrastructure around himself and that will take AT LEAST a year or two.
.
In sum, a good owner precedes success, followed by a good coach. I wouldn't be overly concerned with the GM, player director, etc.
First off I appreciate your input!!! I mention Pioli because his situation in KC is somewhat similiar to what the Vikes have now except Pioli had to go in and COMPLETELY demolish this team as they had only 6 victories in 2 season prior to this year, I don't think the Vikes are in quite that bad of shape. In one season he now has them poised to win that division!!

KC's player's lacked what Seemed like a good work ethic and had no STANDOUT QB. Pioli's plan was too weed out the slackers and instill professionalism, all the while blending the right type of veteran that would be a positive influence on the younger guys-A BIG REASON WHY I BELIEVE McNabb WOULD BE A GOOD FIT NEXT YEAR FOR THE VIKES..........He also placed a franchise tag on Cassel and he has responded beyond expectation, he is the best kept secret in the NFL..27 TD's. and only 5 picks. He called the franchise tag humbling..........type of player you want.

I agree with your assessment of the Vikes in terms of their potential turnaround-2 yrs.-IF.... they can land a couple key FA'S and draft 1st and 2nd round guys that can have immediate, REPEAT IMMEDIATE, impact on the team.

“Zimmer Turner Overdrive”

Since: Jan 07

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#16
Dec 29, 2010
 
erie-vike fan wrote:
<quoted text>First off I appreciate your input!!! I mention Pioli because his situation in KC is somewhat similiar to what the Vikes have now except Pioli had to go in and COMPLETELY demolish this team as they had only 6 victories in 2 season prior to this year, I don't think the Vikes are in quite that bad of shape. In one season he now has them poised to win that division!!
KC's player's lacked what Seemed like a good work ethic and had no STANDOUT QB. Pioli's plan was too weed out the slackers and instill professionalism, all the while blending the right type of veteran that would be a positive influence on the younger guys-A BIG REASON WHY I BELIEVE McNabb WOULD BE A GOOD FIT NEXT YEAR FOR THE VIKES..........He also placed a franchise tag on Cassel and he has responded beyond expectation, he is the best kept secret in the NFL..27 TD's. and only 5 picks. He called the franchise tag humbling..........type of player you want.
I agree with your assessment of the Vikes in terms of their potential turnaround-2 yrs.-IF.... they can land a couple key FA'S and draft 1st and 2nd round guys that can have immediate, REPEAT IMMEDIATE, impact on the team.
This is the same team that won the division at 10-6, plus harvin. Our failure this year was one of leadership & that will be corrected. We will compete for the division crown next year. People overstate good when things are going well & they overstate the bad in a chilly-led implosion like this year. Chicago never has back-to-back good years (it's a Lovie Smith led team!) & Rodgers is close to retirement with his brain injuries, plus, the pack is overrated & led by McCarthy. Detroit is simply fighting for mediocrity. No reason, even without free agents, we can't compete.
Midnight Rambler

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#17
Dec 29, 2010
 
erie-vike fan wrote:
<quoted text>First off I appreciate your input!!! I mention Pioli because his situation in KC is somewhat similiar to what the Vikes have now except Pioli had to go in and COMPLETELY demolish this team as they had only 6 victories in 2 season prior to this year, I don't think the Vikes are in quite that bad of shape. In one season he now has them poised to win that division!!
KC's player's lacked what Seemed like a good work ethic and had no STANDOUT QB. Pioli's plan was too weed out the slackers and instill professionalism, all the while blending the right type of veteran that would be a positive influence on the younger guys-A BIG REASON WHY I BELIEVE McNabb WOULD BE A GOOD FIT NEXT YEAR FOR THE VIKES..........He also placed a franchise tag on Cassel and he has responded beyond expectation, he is the best kept secret in the NFL..27 TD's. and only 5 picks. He called the franchise tag humbling..........type of player you want.
I agree with your assessment of the Vikes in terms of their potential turnaround-2 yrs.-IF.... they can land a couple key FA'S and draft 1st and 2nd round guys that can have immediate, REPEAT IMMEDIATE, impact on the team.
__________

You may be right, but did Pioli choose those players in KC or was it the coach and coordinators? I can't imagine old buddies Weis and Crennal (and their head coach) working on a team together without having final authority over personnel. Most coaches today want to choose their own players. In the 80s Joe Gibbs took the Redskins to the SB three times but finally got fed up fighting with the GM (Casserly?) over personnel and left.
.
Today the successful business model for America's ultimate team sport is the top-down approach: one mind, one vision, ONE TEAM. That one mind is usually the coach - although it can be the GM. Either way you have a single mind/philosophy setting the team's course. I have my doubts that Pioli is the guy running KC. For sure, Weis and Crennal are comfortable with his professional ADMINISTRATION of the personnel department based on their experience together in New England, but I doubt he [Pioli] is executing policy. If you want a reason for KC's success look no further than Weis, Crennal, and their coach.
.
What Minny needs is a football guy. My guess is Pioli is an ADMINISTRATOR who compliments football guys - not an A-type male. Its seems perfectly appropriate that he is Parcell's son in law - the supportive, supplementary husband/father figure for his beloved daughter. BTW I agree with the person on this site who said Parcells is good but may be lacking commitment.
.
The Vikings probably have the right players. What you need now is a good football general. He may want all young players or just veterans or a little of both - there's more than one way to skin a cat. The best choice may be right in front of you.... Frazier. Did you hear what the players said last night? "We want to win this one for the coach." That's a good sign. You just don't want ALL the players saying that!
.
Give your general the time and tools to put together an organization that serves his purpose. Its important that the players compliment each other and reflect his ideas. Placing so many great players together like your favorite football cards or fantasy team doesn't work - ask Snyder in DC or check out how Woodhead languished on the practice squad in NYC but blossomed in NE. Football is the ultimate team game, an organic chess match if you will. If one lowly pawn out of place you'll be checkmated. Organic chess... hmmm... how's that for a metaphor? I hope I'm not getting too abstract. Give Frazier or whoever you choose a CHANCE. Don't make any grand moves. Give your guy time to put HIS guys, HIS concept, HIS team together.
.
Two years is reasonable. I've got to warn you though - if your owner is a jackass like Jerry Jones become a hockey fan.
Midnight Rambler

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#18
Dec 29, 2010
 
erie-vike fan wrote:
<quoted text>First off I appreciate your input!!! I mention Pioli because his situation in KC is somewhat similiar to what the Vikes have now except Pioli had to go in and COMPLETELY demolish this team as they had only 6 victories in 2 season prior to this year, I don't think the Vikes are in quite that bad of shape. In one season he now has them poised to win that division!!
KC's player's lacked what Seemed like a good work ethic and had no STANDOUT QB. Pioli's plan was too weed out the slackers and instill professionalism, all the while blending the right type of veteran that would be a positive influence on the younger guys-A BIG REASON WHY I BELIEVE McNabb WOULD BE A GOOD FIT NEXT YEAR FOR THE VIKES..........He also placed a franchise tag on Cassel and he has responded beyond expectation, he is the best kept secret in the NFL..27 TD's. and only 5 picks. He called the franchise tag humbling..........type of player you want.
I agree with your assessment of the Vikes in terms of their potential turnaround-2 yrs.-IF.... they can land a couple key FA'S and draft 1st and 2nd round guys that can have immediate, REPEAT IMMEDIATE, impact on the team.
__________

You may be right, but did Pioli choose those players in KC or was it the coach and coordinators? I can't imagine old buddies Weis and Crennal (and their head coach) working on a team together without having final authority over personnel. Most coaches today want to choose their own players. In the 80s Joe Gibbs took the Redskins to the SB three times but finally got fed up fighting with the GM (Casserly?) over personnel and left.
.
Today the successful business model for America's ultimate team sport is the top-down approach: one mind, one vision, ONE TEAM. That one mind is usually the coach - although it can be the GM. Either way you have a single mind/philosophy setting the team's course. I have my doubts that Pioli is the guy running KC. For sure, Weis and Crennal are comfortable with his professional ADMINISTRATION of the personnel department based on their experience together in New England, but I doubt he [Pioli] is executing policy. If you want a reason for KC's success look no further than Weis, Crennal, and their coach.
.
What Minny needs is a football guy. My guess is Pioli is an ADMINISTRATOR who compliments football guys - not an A-type male. Its seems perfectly appropriate that he is Parcell's son in law - the supportive, supplementary husband/father figure for his beloved daughter. BTW I agree with the person on this site who said Parcells is good but may be lacking commitment.
.
The Vikings probably have the right players. What you need now is a good football general. He may want all young players or just veterans or a little of both - there's more than one way to skin a cat. The best choice may be right in front of you.... Frazier. Did you hear what the players said last night? "We want to win this one for the coach." That's a good sign. You just don't want ALL the players saying that!
.
Give your general the time and tools to put together an organization that serves his purpose. Its important that the players compliment each other and reflect his ideas. Placing so many great players together like your favorite football cards or fantasy team doesn't work - ask Snyder in DC or check out how Woodhead languished on the practice squad in NYC but blossomed in NE. Football is the ultimate team game, an organic chess match if you will. If one lowly pawn out of place you'll be checkmated. Organic chess... how's that for a metaphor? I hope I'm not getting too abstract. Give Frazier or whoever you choose a CHANCE. Don't make any grand moves. Give your guy time to put HIS guys, HIS concept, HIS team together.
.
Two years is reasonable. I've got to warn you though - if your owner is a jackass like Jerry Jones become a hockey fan.

“We've been Norv'ed”

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#19
Dec 29, 2010
 
From what I understand, not completely positive though, Pioli has 100% control over football operations in KC.

“We've been Norv'ed”

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#20
Dec 30, 2010
 
RAMBLER:

I concur with you in regards to the quality of coaches KC has, good way to put it-they complement one another. Walsh had that going for him in the '80's with all that firepower under him, the likes of Green, Holmgren, Gruden among many others.

I love hockey BTW!!!!

I would not mind at all if Ziggy hired Frazier full time.........and I did catch Winfield's comment's re:Frazier after the game. Said he is approachable, has an "open door policy" and he knows the player's having played in the league before........I thought this was just as much a dig on CHILDRESS as it was a vote of confidence for Frazier, Childress being the polar extreme of Winfield's synopsis of Frazier.

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