'05 draft class shrinks to one

The Vikings' 2005 draft class is down to one member: offensive tackle Marcus Johnson.

[ZygiZag]

Bad luck man. Just plumb bad luck. Maybe take a year off and fully recover and try again and have better luck. He could have been good, but who knows.

[Green Bay Sucks]

And so goes another Mike Tice era draft pick, all due respect to the fact that at least James was hampered by injuries. But Williamson? Bust. Marcus Johnson?? Should be a quality starter, so another bust there.

This underscores my previous post in a different thread about how great a job Childress and company have done rebuilding a quality roster in just over 2 years' time. The Tice years were very poor for drafts, best being the year they got Kevin Williams... but even then, they lost the other most quality player from that draft in Nate Burleson.

Bite the bullet, get rid of the last of them, and pray for one more strong draft next year. It'll be the fastest roster turnover in team history, and they'll be better off for it.

[Childress]

Tice did better with the free agents,he got us Sharper and Winfield.
Then again he got us Smoot,lolololol
and of course he traded the best wr. ever for nothing.
F*ck Tice.

[Hank]

Green Bay Sucks wrote:

And so goes another Mike Tice era draft pick, all due respect to the fact that at least James was hampered by injuries. But Williamson? Bust. Marcus Johnson?? Should be a quality starter, so another bust there.
This underscores my previous post in a different thread about how great a job Childress and company have done rebuilding a quality roster in just over 2 years' time. The Tice years were very poor for drafts, best being the year they got Kevin Williams... but even then, they lost the other most quality player from that draft in Nate Burleson.
Bite the bullet, get rid of the last of them, and pray for one more strong draft next year. It'll be the fastest roster turnover in team history, and they'll be better off for it.

I'm not sure where you were when Mike Tice was around. But Tice had nothing to do with selecting the players. That was mccombs and spielman etc. Tice would have got the vikings to the play offs in childress's first year. Because Zigy would have spent money on players, where mccombs didn't. Tice is a better coach than childress will ever be. You fickle vikings fans always jump to illogical conclusions about your team. Tice would have let Brad Johnson call audibles, where chilly would not. chilly is getting everything Tice did not, and chilly will still not win. Chilly has hooked his wagon to Jackson, because he thinks he can make another mcnabb out of jackson. When the vikings don't make the playoffs this year, you fans better be calling for chilly's head. Because Ziggy is giving him everything he asked for, and it won't be enough. Because childress is not a good coach. Why is it you vikings fans can't see what spielman did in Miami? Why do you think they are so bad? It's because of spielman. Ziggy needs to hire one good GM, and let him make all decisions. Personnel, coaches etc. That is the only way the vikings will ascend in the standings.
Where has this so called genius of childress and spielman got you? No place! They still are thin at WR, OL and QB, they have nothing but back-up qb's at the most important position. I'm sorry if your childress's brother, but the guy just downright stinks!

[Archangel - MN]

Hank wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not sure where you were when Mike Tice was around. But Tice had nothing to do with selecting the players. That was mccombs and spielman etc. Tice would have got the vikings to the play offs in childress's first year. Because Zigy would have spent money on players, where mccombs didn't. Tice is a better coach than childress will ever be. You fickle vikings fans always jump to illogical conclusions about your team. Tice would have let Brad Johnson call audibles, where chilly would not. chilly is getting everything Tice did not, and chilly will still not win. Chilly has hooked his wagon to Jackson, because he thinks he can make another mcnabb out of jackson. When the vikings don't make the playoffs this year, you fans better be calling for chilly's head. Because Ziggy is giving him everything he asked for, and it won't be enough. Because childress is not a good coach. Why is it you vikings fans can't see what spielman did in Miami? Why do you think they are so bad? It's because of spielman. Ziggy needs to hire one good GM, and let him make all decisions. Personnel, coaches etc. That is the only way the vikings will ascend in the standings.
Where has this so called genius of childress and spielman got you? No place! They still are thin at WR, OL and QB, they have nothing but back-up qb's at the most important position. I'm sorry if your childress's brother, but the guy just downright stinks!

Nothing wrong with you being a fan for some other team. But saying stupid, unqualified $h!t, and taking up all of this space to do it, is just plain fu**ed-up.- I'm not sold on Childress or Spielman, but I realize that:
1) AD was a great draft. 2) Chester Taylor was a high quality acquisition. 3) Rice was a good draft. Booty, by all analysts' opinion, was a great draft for a steal. 4) Miami sucked worse after Spielman left. 5) Everyone except your dumb arse in the football world is raving about the J. Allen pick-up. 6) Most experts expected The Vikings to go through a couple seasons while rebuilding looking sub-par. Yet, they were a game away from the play-offs even with some $h!tty players left over from the previous owner and staff. 7) Childress dumped Culpepper. Where's he now? GB interviewed him. "Secret", of course.(Says a lot for their opinion of Rodgers, doesn't it? Plus they high-picked a QB) 8) All these trained experts that are paid to know more than you, ALREADY see The Vikings topping division, and having either the best defense, or a top 5 defense. 9) Berrian was a quality pick-up it's been said by more experts. 10) YOUR suppositions have no evidence. And no backing other than by you.

[Badgers Suck]

Typical Wisconsin players, get hyped coming out of college then do absolutely nothing in the pros. Thats what you get for goin with a badger.

[Baguak]

Hank

Shutup

[Huge Jazz]

Hey Hank, what a turd you are. Spielman wasn't around either.

Excuse me but I need to get going. I need to go pick up some Hanks my dog left behind.

[ZygiZag]

Archangel - MN wrote:

<quoted text>
Nothing wrong with you being a fan for some other team. But saying stupid, unqualified $h!t, and taking up all of this space to do it, is just plain fu**ed-up.- I'm not sold on Childress or Spielman, but I realize that:
1) AD was a great draft. 2) Chester Taylor was a high quality acquisition. 3) Rice was a good draft. Booty, by all analysts' opinion, was a great draft for a steal. 4) Miami sucked worse after Spielman left. 5) Everyone except your dumb arse in the football world is raving about the J. Allen pick-up. 6) Most experts expected The Vikings to go through a couple seasons while rebuilding looking sub-par. Yet, they were a game away from the play-offs even with some $h!tty players left over from the previous owner and staff. 7) Childress dumped Culpepper. Where's he now? GB interviewed him. "Secret", of course.(Says a lot for their opinion of Rodgers, doesn't it? Plus they high-picked a QB) 8) All these trained experts that are paid to know more than you, ALREADY see The Vikings topping division, and having either the best defense, or a top 5 defense. 9) Berrian was a quality pick-up it's been said by more experts. 10) YOUR suppositions have no evidence. And no backing other than by you.

Good post. I am not totally sold on Chilly. I want to see more creativity out of the offense this year (both back in the backfiled and flee-flickers and more TE passes). I do blame Chilli for having a weak BU QB last year. That cost us the play-offs. The jury is still out on TJ, as it should be. Can he stay healthy? Can Gus learn the system? Does Gus have an arm still? How prepared can Booty be?

[Hank]

With All these "high quality" players the dikes supposedly have, what has it done for them? Have they made the playoffs? have they even won a game? Yes, the answer is NO! So don't go annoiting this overrated spielman as some kind of genius. Or chlly either. You can rant all you want, but where it counts, the dikes have done nothing. By the time they are done with week six, they will be lucky to be 2-4. berian is an average wr, drops alot of balls. And that is with better qbs than the dikes have. That is not saying much, but bears qbs are better than t-jack. So fill that bowl up with some more crack and keep telling yourselve that the dikes might win 6 games. That way you won't be so disappointed when they fail you miserably. A good organization, starts at the top, and this triangle or rectangle or whatever discombobulated mess they have, don't have a clue on what it takes to win. By not signing Birk, the only leader they have on offense, just goes to prove that fact. Your a bit oversensitive about your precious little dikes. And keep the "cute" little name calling, as I heard alot worse from better brains than I see hear.

[MGS]

All of you go to "time out"!!!

[Green Bay Sucks]

Hank wrote:

<quoted text>
Tice would have got the vikings to the play offs in childress's first year. Because Zigy would have spent money on players, where mccombs didn't.

Uhh... Zigi WAS here for Tice's entire first year. Where were you? Probably wearing a pick shirt and high heels to some Saturday night fish fry in Wisconsin... Am I right? Tice had a whole year to earn Wilf's respect and confidence. That's a pretty long audition considering most fast food places like the cheese curd stand you work at have a 90-day probationary period on new hires. Whatever the case, Wilf clearly didn't have faith in Tice.

Hank wrote:

<quoted text>
chilly is getting everything Tice did not, and chilly will still not win

Tice came in with players like Moss, Carter, Reed, a healthy, Pro-Bowl caliber Culpepper, etc..., and he ran the team into the ground both ON the field and OFF the field, where team disclipline and class fell to an all-time low. That is one the coach. PERIOD. Blame Tice.

Childress came in to Tice's mess and started over from scratch. Even now one could argue that Childress' team is still behind the talent level of the roster Tice had handed to him form Green. Tice however, could not motivate, organize, manage, or discipline that talent. Childress has proven he can do more with LESS.

Hank wrote:

<quoted text>
Tice is a better coach than childress will ever be.

This is getting silly. Read at your own risk:

Season / record / points for / points against

Under Tice:

2002: 6 wins, 390 scored, 442 allowed
2003: 9 wins, 416 scored, 353 allowed
2004: 8 wins, 405 scored, 395 allowed
2005: 9 wins, 306 scored, 344 allowed

Under Childress:

2006: 6 wins, 282 scored, 327 allowed
2007: 8 wins, 365 scored, 311 allowed

In four years, Tice's BEST defensive showing was 344 points allowed. Childress's team has beaten that in each of his first two years, even BEFORE he started getting new players in. When you can do BETTER with the same defensive players the previous coach had, then you are a BETTER COACH.

And you know what they say.... "Defense wins championships". Childress has worked since day one he to build a better defense and rushing game - a blueprint that nearly ALL the Super Bowl winners have followed in the history of the league. Sure enough, he's already improved both.

On offense, Tice inherited a monster form Denny Green that was averaging over 400 points a year when he took over, with Moss, Carter, Culpepper, etc. And yet, Tice STILL ran it into the ground, mustering only 306 points in his final year. That's like buying a Porsche, then driving 35 miles an hour on the freeway... with your blinker on the whole damn time! What a waste of talent.

On the other hand, Childress started over from scratch, recognizing the poor attitudes and declining talent left behind by Tice's POOR coaching. Working with a young, very raw QB, no WR's and a thin OL, he has brought up the offensive scoring average by some TWENTY FIVE POINTS points already. And that, with Tarvaris Jackson still learning on the fly! That's pretty awesome if you ask me. And of course you ask me, because I'm smarter than you, so you SHOULD be asking me everything, from this point on.

DO THE MATH.

Childress' teams score MORE points on offense and give up FEWER points on defense, all with YOUNGER players who will be around much longer, and FEWER off-field distractions that bring shame to the organization.

How much simpler can it be?

[Piranha]

Hank wrote:

my wife likes dikes.

Not really a surprise there Hank.

[Green Bay Sucks]

Wow! Hank, I have to say.. I am impressed! Good for you. All is foregiven. Welcome to the board!

Hank wrote:

<quoted text>
I have to apologize to all of you. Especially to 'Green Bay Sucks', who is the preeminent football genius when it comes to detailing all the ways in which my Green Bay Packers truly do suck. PLEASE accept my humble, heartfelt apology. Sometimes, I can be a total tool. Not to mention, a bad internet troll.

I'm not sure why I do this stuff. My doctor thinks I might need to change up my medication again. My wife (who likes dikes) thinks the hot, greasy steam from the cheese curd stand that I work might be getting to me. I just think I probably drink too much, like most Packer fans.

Oh well, having screwed my head on straight enough to post one logical statement, all I have to say now is, "GO VIKINGS! I LOVE COACH CHILDRESS!! TARVARIS JACKSON WILL BE A GREAT QUARTERBACK!!!"

Oh yeah -- and, "GREEN BAY SUCKS!"

[Hank]

Piranha wrote:

<quoted text>Not really a surprise there Hank.

There is nothing to ask from a brainwashed coma induced dikings fan. Tice did not have all those weapons when he took over. Whiny boy carter retired. stringer died. And culpecker got hurt and came back to reality, a qb that can't read a defense. And your missing the point, the obeject of playing football is to make the playoffs. And Tice did and chilly hasn't or won't. Chilly had a qb johnson, that could have won a few games, but he refused to let him audible, when he saw the defense stacking line for the run. Chilly thinks he is such a great football mind, that a veteran like johnson knows nothing. And you call that a coach? chilly is losing control of this team too. That stiff at left tackle ring a bell. So if you consider not making the playoffs a sign of a good coach, then yes chilly is a better coach than Tice. Cause chilly hasn't been or will be to the playoffs. And Tice has. Chilly has far longer than tice had under zig to prove himself unworthy. If more is not making the playoffs, then by golly Clem your right! And don't hurt yourself driving your trike down the road, the dikes can't afford to lose anymore season ticketholders. Cause I don't think any more corporate help to make games a sellout. Will be forthcoming!

[Hank]

Piranha, I'm sorry. There I go again. I've just been a mess lately since I found out about my wife having an affair with another woman. Her own sister, no less. I mean, fine if you want to have sex with your siblings and all, but SAME sex incest? THAT's where I draw the line.

Between that and the whole cheese curd thing, I'm just a mess lately, and I seem to pop off on people quite a bit. Cheese curd.. damn. That's another thing altogether. I've worked at that place since 1997 and I STILL haven't made assistance curd fryer manager yet. I thought I had it all locked up when the last guy quit to go take some cushy job at the Pump N' Munch station down the street, but now that the boss is working with the school district to create employment opportunities for mentally challenged youths and violent ex-cons on work release, I just have that many more people to compete with now, and it has me really moody lately.

I'll try to work on my attitude, I promise.

[Mike]

I'm sure if you look back on drafts of the last 25 years, we have good ones and bad ones. There is alot of research done every year, and alot of time it's pure luck when you do well, and bad luck when you don't. Right now, the current bunch looks good because they got lucky when Adrian Peterson fell into their laps. The rest of us could have made that pick. The teams that do well from the third round on consistently are the ones who are really sharp.

[FauxReporter]

What spawns a Hank? What an angry, little man syndrome loser. On a side note Hank, learn to spell. It's hard on the eyes reading your drivel, it is even harder wading through that morass of subjective, unsupported dung with all of the misspellings.

[Pete]

The posting of honest insights (more than just the opinions) on player performance, developmental needs and potential is GREAT reading. And yeah, the ranting and digs are often amusing (like this particular string of posts from "Nevada" Hank).

Thanks, it helps to pass the time in the offseason while we wonder whether (hope) certain players will make strides and, with the new additions, will the Vikes put it on track this year?

I'm already anxious for start of the season (too far away) because it will put all this to bed. Hope all you naysayers eat your words come this fall. GO VIKINGS!

[PurpleBoold0021]

Hank wrote:

<quoted text>
I'm not sure where you were when Mike Tice was around. But Tice had nothing to do with selecting the players. That was mccombs and spielman etc. Tice would have got the vikings to the play offs in childress's first year. Because Zigy would have spent money on players, where mccombs didn't. Tice is a better coach than childress will ever be. You fickle vikings fans always jump to illogical conclusions about your team. Tice would have let Brad Johnson call audibles, where chilly would not. chilly is getting everything Tice did not, and chilly will still not win. Chilly has hooked his wagon to Jackson, because he thinks he can make another mcnabb out of jackson. When the vikings don't make the playoffs this year, you fans better be calling for chilly's head. Because Ziggy is giving him everything he asked for, and it won't be enough. Because childress is not a good coach. Why is it you vikings fans can't see what spielman did in Miami? Why do you think they are so bad? It's because of spielman. Ziggy needs to hire one good GM, and let him make all decisions. Personnel, coaches etc. That is the only way the vikings will ascend in the standings.
Where has this so called genius of childress and spielman got you? No place! They still are thin at WR, OL and QB, they have nothing but back-up qb's at the most important position. I'm sorry if your childress's brother, but the guy just downright stinks!

HAHA you are calling out "fickle" fans...this post rieks of the very thing your are griping about. Seriously? McCombs was in charge of the draft? Give me a break - the scouting and the draft boards are comprised solely by the scouting dept. and the coaching staff. Those crap drafts were TICE and his staff...blamikng it on McCombs to prove a non-existant point is garbage.

Tice could coach, I will give you that, but another draft or two like what Tice and his staff had during his tenure would have probably landed the Vikes a top threee pick this year.

THe fact of the matter is - I don't really care what Speilman did in Miami, what he is doing in the drafts and in free agency since he has been here has been remarkable. Would you not date a supermodel because she was ugly in high school - get a clue and just come out of the closer - admit your a Packer Fan