Does God belong in schools?

Does God belong in schools?

There are 151 comments on the The Independent story from Mar 24, 2011, titled Does God belong in schools?. In it, The Independent reports that:

Faith schools applying for 'free' status are one of Michael Gove's biggest headaches.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at The Independent.

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Since: May 07

Muncie, IN

#144 Mar 31, 2011
melyssakaye wrote:
Once again you need to read all of my posts before commenting. I am not here to prove anything to you and likewise you are not here to disprove.
Keep in mind, though, that by making the definitive statements that you have, you are purporting to "know" something that you have no knowledge of.
You have a belief.
Any attempt to use this god as an explanation for anything will result in your assertion being addressed.
melyssakaye wrote:
As far as using God as "an explanation to anything", refer to above post. I have not used His name to explain anything or justify behaviors in others.
Really?
melyssakaye wrote:
It all started with the creation by God (Genius) and nature took it from there, a set up created by God.(post #129)
Yes melyssakaye, you did.
Maybe you might consider reading your own previous posts before commenting?
melyssakaye wrote:
Whatever you choose to believe in is your right and mine too. All evidence provided about God, for centuries people (like you) have tried to disprove. It is all a matter of personal insight and interpretation.
There is no evidence.
Therefore, there is nothing to disprove.
This is a simple concept.

You are the one making the extravagant claim that this god is real. Therefore, it is your responsibility to provide the (extravagant) evidence.

There is no way to "disprove" something for which no evidence exists in the first place. It is no different from asking a person to "disprove" the existence of elves. "Personal insight and interpretation" are by their very nature nothing more than one's opinion.

Do you not understand what is meant by "evidence?"
melyssakaye wrote:
It does not matter to me if you or anyone else believes, I am not pushing it on you or demanding that you do, I also am not hurting anyone.
It is not until you make definitive statements like you have that you start doing harm, in the form of misinformation. One of the dangers with the logic you use is that it contributes to intellectual laziness; it eliminates the urge to understand the world and instead uses some deity as a catch-all excuse to pretend to provide an answer to something.

If religious folks could keep their religion to themselves, inside their homes and churches - a private matter - then there would be no problems. The problem arises when a group of people begin trying to incorporate their religion into, e.g., public education, politics, taxpayer-funded public institutions, etc. This very thread is a great example of that - asking if religious thought should be in schools.
Now, I'm not saying that you personally are guilty of this, indeed you have said that you are not in favor of religion and school being mixed together. But in too many places of the world, this is certainly the case with too many people, and for too long the nonreligious crowd have stayed silent on the matter out of respect of religious people.
The time is over to be silent out of respect for the religious community. As Richard Dawkins has suggested, the time has come to hold religion to the same standards of analysis that we give everything else in our lives.

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#145 Mar 31, 2011
Apsu wrote:
<quoted text>Keep in mind, though, that by making the definitive statements that you have, you are purporting to "know" something that you have no knowledge of.
You have a belief.
Any attempt to use this god as an explanation for anything will result in your assertion being addressed.
<quoted text>Really?
<quoted text>Yes melyssakaye, you did.
Maybe you might consider reading your own previous posts before commenting?
<quoted text>There is no evidence.
Therefore, there is nothing to disprove.
This is a simple concept.
You are the one making the extravagant claim that this god is real. Therefore, it is your responsibility to provide the (extravagant) evidence.
There is no way to "disprove" something for which no evidence exists in the first place. It is no different from asking a person to "disprove" the existence of elves. "Personal insight and interpretation" are by their very nature nothing more than one's opinion.
Do you not understand what is meant by "evidence?"
<quoted text>It is not until you make definitive statements like you have that you start doing harm, in the form of misinformation. One of the dangers with the logic you use is that it contributes to intellectual laziness; it eliminates the urge to understand the world and instead uses some deity as a catch-all excuse to pretend to provide an answer to something.
If religious folks could keep their religion to themselves, inside their homes and churches - a private matter - then there would be no problems. The problem arises when a group of people begin trying to incorporate their religion into, e.g., public education, politics, taxpayer-funded public institutions, etc. This very thread is a great example of that - asking if religious thought should be in schools.
Now, I'm not saying that you personally are guilty of this, indeed you have said that you are not in favor of religion and school being mixed together. But in too many places of the world, this is certainly the case with too many people, and for too long the nonreligious crowd have stayed silent on the matter out of respect of religious people.
The time is over to be silent out of respect for the religious community. As Richard Dawkins has suggested, the time has come to hold religion to the same standards of analysis that we give everything else in our lives.
No I have first hand knowledge, like it or not, agree or not, believe or not, it does not diminish my KNOWLEDGE of GOD. Point still remains, you have your opinions and I have my God, why you have such a problem with that is beyond me. Let it go, it is the same arguments since the beginning of time and it will never change any of our decisions, thoughts, worship, or opinions. You can talk until you are blew in the face as can I, nothing will change. This was a debate about God in school, not believing in God, I as well as you have voiced our opinion of that. I agree with you on that point, so the rest is pointless.

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#146 Mar 31, 2011
Apsu wrote:
<quoted text>Keep in mind, though, that by making the definitive statements that you have, you are purporting to "know" something that you have no knowledge of.
You have a belief.
Any attempt to use this god as an explanation for anything will result in your assertion being addressed.
<quoted text>Really?
<quoted text>Yes melyssakaye, you did.
Maybe you might consider reading your own previous posts before commenting?
<quoted text>There is no evidence.
Therefore, there is nothing to disprove.
This is a simple concept.
You are the one making the extravagant claim that this god is real. Therefore, it is your responsibility to provide the (extravagant) evidence.
There is no way to "disprove" something for which no evidence exists in the first place. It is no different from asking a person to "disprove" the existence of elves. "Personal insight and interpretation" are by their very nature nothing more than one's opinion.
Do you not understand what is meant by "evidence?"
<quoted text>It is not until you make definitive statements like you have that you start doing harm, in the form of misinformation. One of the dangers with the logic you use is that it contributes to intellectual laziness; it eliminates the urge to understand the world and instead uses some deity as a catch-all excuse to pretend to provide an answer to something.
If religious folks could keep their religion to themselves, inside their homes and churches - a private matter - then there would be no problems. The problem arises when a group of people begin trying to incorporate their religion into, e.g., public education, politics, taxpayer-funded public institutions, etc. This very thread is a great example of that - asking if religious thought should be in schools.
Now, I'm not saying that you personally are guilty of this, indeed you have said that you are not in favor of religion and school being mixed together. But in too many places of the world, this is certainly the case with too many people, and for too long the nonreligious crowd have stayed silent on the matter out of respect of religious people.
The time is over to be silent out of respect for the religious community. As Richard Dawkins has suggested, the time has come to hold religion to the same standards of analysis that we give everything else in our lives.
Btw, religion and God are two separate things. I am not a fan of religion and not a fan of trying to push God down peoples throats. I once again did not use God to explain anything. What you view and what I view are two different things, that's obvious. You can be mad, upset, pissy, and flippant about all that I have said, that is the difference between you and I. My God has not caused me or anyone else harm, it is stupid people who try to use him as a weapon. I understand the hurt, anger and confusion caused by this, but I have never done so and people who truly live their life for God do not either. I am glad you can live a life as you choose, that's great for all of us, but just because I live differently does not mean I am some how beneath you or even delusional. Mama always told me, "never talk religion, politics or men, to anyone", I think she was right. Lmao....Have a great life!

Since: May 07

Muncie, IN

#147 Mar 31, 2011
melyssakaye wrote:
Btw, religion and God are two separate things. I am not a fan of religion and not a fan of trying to push God down peoples throats.
Problem is, this god you talk about indeed originates in a particular religious tradition. Without the religion or without the written mythology associated with the religion, there is no such concept of that god because the idea of that god stems directly from the religion and associated mythology.

It is like claiming that the Greek god Zeus and Greek mythology are two separate things. They are, sure - but, without the Greek mythology there is nothing else to base the concept of Zeus from. One (Zeus) has an intimate relationship with one the other (the mythology); without the mythology, there is no concept of Zeus because the idea of Zeus stems directly from the religion/mythology.
melyssakaye wrote:
I once again did not use God to explain anything. What you view and what I view are two different things, that's obvious.
A little advice - don't say things that you are later going to try to deny saying, especially in the same thread.
Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
This has nothing to do with what you or I "view," it has to do with what you said.
melyssakaye wrote:
You can be mad, upset, pissy, and flippant about all that I have said, that is the difference between you and I.
So, you think that if someone disagrees with you, that they are upset?
You are certainly a fan of dramatics.
(i.e.- why would you think that I am upset?)
melyssakaye wrote:
My God has not caused me or anyone else harm, it is stupid people who try to use him as a weapon.
Well, of course your god has not caused anyone harm - imaginary things by their very nature are incapable of harming anyone.
This is why the boogey-man has never caused anyone harm as well.
Funny how that works out - eh?
melyssakaye wrote:
I understand the hurt, anger and confusion caused by this, but I have never done so and people who truly live their life for God do not either.
Face it, Melyssakaye - you do not have a monopoly on "living for God," nor are you doing anything new or unique. You do not have any sort of authority saying who "lives their life for God."
melyssakaye wrote:
I am glad you can live a life as you choose, that's great for all of us, but just because I live differently does not mean I am some how beneath you or even delusional. Mama always told me, "never talk religion, politics or men, to anyone", I think she was right. Lmao....Have a great life!
You claim to not be delusional, but at the same time
1) assert that a god created everything and then "set up" a nature to take over
2) then assert that is not using that god to explain anything, in turn contradicting yourself
3) claim to have "first hand knowledge" of some imaginary being or thing
4) make grand claims of evidence, but curiously cannot produce any of this evidence
5) makes claims of being able to define who is a "true" "liver-of-life" for this imaginary being.

Sorry, Melyssakaye, but you are indeed delusional. I would say the same thing about a flat-Earther.
I have never said that a delusional person is somehow "beneath" me - that is just your delusions acting up again.
:)

Since: Mar 11

Location hidden

#148 Apr 1, 2011
Apsu wrote:
<quoted text>Problem is, this god you talk about indeed originates in a particular religious tradition. Without the religion or without the written mythology associated with the religion, there is no such concept of that god because the idea of that god stems directly from the religion and associated mythology.
It is like claiming that the Greek god Zeus and Greek mythology are two separate things. They are, sure - but, without the Greek mythology there is nothing else to base the concept of Zeus from. One (Zeus) has an intimate relationship with one the other (the mythology); without the mythology, there is no concept of Zeus because the idea of Zeus stems directly from the religion/mythology.
<quoted text>A little advice - don't say things that you are later going to try to deny saying, especially in the same thread.
Pull yourself up by your bootstraps.
This has nothing to do with what you or I "view," it has to do with what you said.
<quoted text>So, you think that if someone disagrees with you, that they are upset?
You are certainly a fan of dramatics.
(i.e.- why would you think that I am upset?)
<quoted text>Well, of course your god has not caused anyone harm - imaginary things by their very nature are incapable of harming anyone.
This is why the boogey-man has never caused anyone harm as well.
Funny how that works out - eh?
<quoted text>Face it, Melyssakaye - you do not have a monopoly on "living for God," nor are you doing anything new or unique. You do not have any sort of authority saying who "lives their life for God."
<quoted text>You claim to not be delusional, but at the same time
1) assert that a god created everything and then "set up" a nature to take over
2) then assert that is not using that god to explain anything, in turn contradicting yourself
3) claim to have "first hand knowledge" of some imaginary being or thing
4) make grand claims of evidence, but curiously cannot produce any of this evidence
5) makes claims of being able to define who is a "true" "liver-of-life" for this imaginary being.
Sorry, Melyssakaye, but you are indeed delusional. I would say the same thing about a flat-Earther.
I have never said that a delusional person is somehow "beneath" me - that is just your delusions acting up again.
:)
Really can't stand it can you? Your argument is irrelevant and pointless, get over it and move on with your life. I have no need to continue this with you as I have stated we have a difference of opinion. I have a feeling you would argue with a wall, good luck with that. Btw, have of what you stated if false and never came out of my mouth, you look for things to try and pick about and are reading your own warped views into it.

Since: May 07

Muncie, IN

#149 Apr 1, 2011
melyssakaye wrote:
Really can't stand it can you? Your argument is irrelevant and pointless, get over it and move on with your life.
Wait a minute - aren't you supposed to provide a link to something like this?
http://i.imgur.com/DeO3K.jpg

That would certainly be more dramatic.
melyssakaye wrote:
I have no need to continue this with you as I have stated we have a difference of opinion. I have a feeling you would argue with a wall, good luck with that.
Face it, Mel, your argument is littered with lapses in reasoning.
You have none of this "knowledge" that you talk about.
You have a belief.
You know this as well as I.
melyssakaye wrote:
Btw, have of what you stated if false and never came out of my mouth, you look for things to try and pick about and are reading your own warped views into it.
So, are you are suggesting that there is a second account by the name of "melyssakaye" or that someone other than yourself is posting using your account?

By all means, provide examples of this "have of what you stated if false and never came out of my mouth."

Since: Jul 10

UK

#150 Apr 2, 2011
Count me NO. Faith schools? There is no faith where one is indocrinated at a tender age (ho ho). At least kids now are able to see through this trickery. They are more likely to believe in the tooth fairy. It pays off.

Since: Jul 10

UK

#151 Apr 2, 2011
Melyssakaye's mum has the handle on this
A spanish called German

Granada, Spain

#152 Apr 2, 2011
Hello!
Over this topic, I think that Religion mustn't be taught. Each one must be free for believe anything he wants, and it's a true problem,that since we born we are forced to learn God is this one, and he has done this, this and this. His son, Jesus, was the world's salvation, and all kind of nonsenses(in my opinion, all these stories are nonsenses"). Why does my son has to learn all that????
I think each one must to learn the things each one wants, when each one believes oportune
karthik

Tirupur, India

#153 Apr 2, 2011
i read your comments and thought while reading, a question arises who or what is god

the answer is simple

nature

don't think trees and mountain as nature its more than it

there is something inside in what ever you see even man,and man made(which he thinks)

answer me world let me see what you think
blacklagoon

Boston, MA

#154 Apr 3, 2011
karthik wrote:
i read your comments and thought while reading, a question arises who or what is god
the answer is simple
nature
don't think trees and mountain as nature its more than it
there is something inside in what ever you see even man,and man made(which he thinks)
answer me world let me see what you think
No nature is NOT god, all things evolved from lower forms, trees as well, mountains are part of the tectonic shifts that take place, the earth formed as all other planet are formed, compressed gasses and dust, compressed until gravity is created then more materials drown in until a planet is formed, this planet with a molten core that gradually forms an atmosphere, with the right combination of chemicals, sunlight and gasses single cell life appeared, evolution took it from there. Non of these events needed a god creator, so nature is just that nature the result of a planet formed as al planets are formed and the process of evolution takers us to this point in time.

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