Should This Woman Be Deported?

May 29, 2008 Read more: www.citypaper.net 1,254

Martinez may not have come to the U.S. legally, but her sons have chosen to serve the country.

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Oh-No-You-Didnt

Baltimore, MD

#1372 Jul 7, 2008
San Diego Fred wrote:
Save American Jobs - Keep Illegals Out !!!
Illegal aliens or not, we might be able to actually save American jobs by not patronizing corporations that outsource jobs to countries where they exploit the workers and get the labor cheaply.

WalMart is a good example of this. The stuff is clearly affordable, but at the expense of the very local economies they inhabit. They consistently kill smaller local businesses many of which, frankly, tend to offer more overall service and expertise than most big box retail establishments.

Fact is, corporations no longer have any allegiance to any one country, so the idea that it's possible to "buy american" doesn't really mean much. Most products come from so many different sources, they also have no nationality.

Maybe we all need to think about what production really means. Look carefully. Manufacturers, of consumer products especially, have developed clever ways to ensure their corporations' futures by producing goods with predictably short lives (planned obselescence, sp?).

When was the last time it seemed to make more sense to have a TV repaired than to just trash it and buy a new one, or, perish the thought, get it replaced on one of those wonderful in-store replacement warranties?

Think a little beyond our own frustrations and it becomes clear who should be "kept out" of the country.
Pando

Bullhead City, AZ

#1373 Jul 8, 2008
Oh-No-You-Didnt wrote:
<quoted text>
Illegal aliens or not, we might be able to actually save American jobs by not patronizing corporations that outsource jobs to countries where they exploit the workers and get the labor cheaply.
WalMart is a good example of this. The stuff is clearly affordable, but at the expense of the very local economies they inhabit. They consistently kill smaller local businesses many of which, frankly, tend to offer more overall service and expertise than most big box retail establishments.
Fact is, corporations no longer have any allegiance to any one country, so the idea that it's possible to "buy american" doesn't really mean much. Most products come from so many different sources, they also have no nationality.
Maybe we all need to think about what production really means. Look carefully. Manufacturers, of consumer products especially, have developed clever ways to ensure their corporations' futures by producing goods with predictably short lives (planned obselescence, sp?).
When was the last time it seemed to make more sense to have a TV repaired than to just trash it and buy a new one, or, perish the thought, get it replaced on one of those wonderful in-store replacement warranties?
Think a little beyond our own frustrations and it becomes clear who should be "kept out" of the country.
So, are you saying you advocate ignoring our nations laws?
Oh-No-You-Didnt

Baltimore, MD

#1374 Jul 8, 2008
Pando wrote:
<quoted text>
So, are you saying you advocate ignoring our nations laws?
No, I'm not advocating ignoring laws. I'm trying to draw attention to the fact that while we all argue, vent, rant and, yes, spew illogical racist and xenophobic hate speech here in cyberspace, a place where, incidentally, nobody can puch anyone's lights out, large corporations and a very very wealthy elite are able to control most of the worlds important resources, including people themselves.

Sure immigration laws are important, but consider this: there's a significant part of the U.S. economy that depends upon, and I would even dare say, plans on the use of inexpensive labor provided by, yes, illegal aliens. In fact, one of these corporations is a prime contractor to the U.S. government in Iraq. They hire mercenary soldiers from latin american countries and pay them a very small fraction of what their U.S. counterparts are paid. So, on and on I can go, but would be happy to know what you think about this....

“Red ”

Since: Nov 07

Mustang, OK

#1375 Jul 8, 2008
I think cases like this should be treated a little differently...don't deport her immediately. Require her to take an English class and get her citzenship. If she doesn't do it after an acquired amount of time, say sorry we tried to give you the chance and then deport her. If she does do it, then leave her be.
Pando

Bullhead City, AZ

#1376 Jul 8, 2008
Oh-No-You-Didnt wrote:
<quoted text>
No, I'm not advocating ignoring laws. I'm trying to draw attention to the fact that while we all argue, vent, rant and, yes, spew illogical racist and xenophobic hate speech here in cyberspace, a place where, incidentally, nobody can puch anyone's lights out, large corporations and a very very wealthy elite are able to control most of the worlds important resources, including people themselves.
Sure immigration laws are important, but consider this: there's a significant part of the U.S. economy that depends upon, and I would even dare say, plans on the use of inexpensive labor provided by, yes, illegal aliens. In fact, one of these corporations is a prime contractor to the U.S. government in Iraq. They hire mercenary soldiers from latin american countries and pay them a very small fraction of what their U.S. counterparts are paid. So, on and on I can go, but would be happy to know what you think about this....
I think you make some valid points which are discussed on other threads on this forum.

This thread is about immigration.

For Americans to focus on manufacturing and production (things we really have no control over) and ignore the ILLEGAL ALIEN issue would not be in our best interest.

For you to say U.S. taxpayers are spewing "illogical racist and xenophobic hate speech" because we want our laws enforced is outrageous. Most pro-ILLEGAL ALIEN posters drag out the "R" word sooner or later

ILLEGAL ALIEN is not a race. It is in fact a status. A status entered into willingly by the participants. All ILLEGAL ALIENS make the conscience choice to become illegal.

This ILLEGAL ALIEN situation has been a long time coming. Those of us living in border states have dealt with the bulk of it for many years.

When the ILLEGAL ALIENS had the audacity to march in our streets demanding their rights it brought home to all Americans exactly what was happening.(Now that was a strategic move that backfired.)

Most of us are well aware that there are many employers that defy our federal laws and hire ILLEGAL ALIENS. More and more states are enacting tougher laws on hiring, renting or aiding ILLEGAL ALIENS to come to or remain in the U.S. illegally.
Oh-No-You-Didnt

Baltimore, MD

#1377 Jul 10, 2008
Pando wrote:
<quoted text>
I think you make some valid points which are discussed on other threads on this forum.
This thread is about immigration.
For Americans to focus on manufacturing and production (things we really have no control over) and ignore the ILLEGAL ALIEN issue would not be in our best interest.
For you to say U.S. taxpayers are spewing "illogical racist and xenophobic hate speech" because we want our laws enforced is outrageous. Most pro-ILLEGAL ALIEN posters drag out the "R" word sooner or later
ILLEGAL ALIEN is not a race. It is in fact a status. A status entered into willingly by the participants. All ILLEGAL ALIENS make the conscience choice to become illegal.
This ILLEGAL ALIEN situation has been a long time coming. Those of us living in border states have dealt with the bulk of it for many years.
When the ILLEGAL ALIENS had the audacity to march in our streets demanding their rights it brought home to all Americans exactly what was happening.(Now that was a strategic move that backfired.)
Most of us are well aware that there are many employers that defy our federal laws and hire ILLEGAL ALIENS. More and more states are enacting tougher laws on hiring, renting or aiding ILLEGAL ALIENS to come to or remain in the U.S. illegally.
So first, thanks for actually reading what I've written so far. I appreciate that you've taken the time to consider what I'm trying to communicate without just offering up a knee-jerk reaction.

Although I clearly don't have the same experience with the illegal alien situation as someone like yourself living in a border state, I also feel at the same time that I have some relevant perspective because there is a pretty large and recently enlarged latino population in the greater Baltimore-Washington area.

I don't know the current statistics within the latino population regarding the number of illegal aliens. Yet I also realize that latinos are not the only ethnicity representing the illegal alien population in the U.S.. But again, what concerns me about this discourse is that so many who are concerned about illegal immigration are not as even handed and considered as you are in your reply above.

What I find to be more common is the type of argument that almost immediately focuses on the ethnicity of illegal aliens to the point where the term "illegal alien" itself has almost become a code word for latino for many who argue vehemently for tougher immigration laws.

I agree that immigration laws are important to provide a level order within the U.S. and any country, for that matter. I'm also glad that you recognize that businesses play a key role in creating the demand for illegal immigrants who make the choice to break these laws and enter the U.S. illegaly to work for certain companies.

My point is that if one accepts the notion that most people who enter the U.S. in violation of immigration laws are trying to make money, and fast, then there's an element of, "can you blame 'em?" going on here which might be different if it weren't so easy for them to get work once the get across the border.

I can't say that I've thought through how best to put pressure on businesses who are creating this demand. Laws are one thing, but if you accept that capitalism and legal, ethical conduct aren't necessarily one in the same, then the trick would seem to be to make it less profitable to hire illegal aliens, and I'm not sure that's too easy.

It's generally less expensive for businesses to exploit this type of labor because everything is "off the books" and worse still they can always threaten deportation, thereby creating a gambit to control the illegal workers.

“"Knuckle Busting Fun!"”

Since: Nov 07

"DC" Where Else?

#1378 Jul 10, 2008
There was a time, if illegals had children born here, they were entitled to stay because the children were US citizens; evidently that must have changed now!

“"Knuckle Busting Fun!"”

Since: Nov 07

"DC" Where Else?

#1379 Jul 10, 2008
http://www.topix.com/forum/topstories/T2MRJOS...

Feel free to join my poll discussion called "Jesse Jacksom is Jealous Because..."

Since: Apr 08

Location hidden

#1380 Jul 11, 2008
jadzzea wrote:
<quoted text>
Hppy Father's day to you and every other father here.
Thank you.

I fought like hades....... but its the courts. Men are just sperm donors in the south. Only a couple states where they recognize us as a parent lol.. one is Oregon. And here I thought the 14th amendment applied to dads huh.

again ty
Pando

Bullhead City, AZ

#1381 Jul 13, 2008
Oh-No-You-Didnt wrote:
<quoted text>
So first, thanks for actually reading what I've written so far. I appreciate that you've taken the time to consider what I'm trying to communicate without just offering up a knee-jerk reaction.
Although I clearly don't have the same experience with the illegal alien situation as someone like yourself living in a border state, I also feel at the same time that I have some relevant perspective because there is a pretty large and recently enlarged latino population in the greater Baltimore-Washington area.
I don't know the current statistics within the latino population regarding the number of illegal aliens. Yet I also realize that latinos are not the only ethnicity representing the illegal alien population in the U.S.. But again, what concerns me about this discourse is that so many who are concerned about illegal immigration are not as even handed and considered as you are in your reply above.
What I find to be more common is the type of argument that almost immediately focuses on the ethnicity of illegal aliens to the point where the term "illegal alien" itself has almost become a code word for latino for many who argue vehemently for tougher immigration laws.
I agree that immigration laws are important to provide a level order within the U.S. and any country, for that matter. I'm also glad that you recognize that businesses play a key role in creating the demand for illegal immigrants who make the choice to break these laws and enter the U.S. illegaly to work for certain companies.
My point is that if one accepts the notion that most people who enter the U.S. in violation of immigration laws are trying to make money, and fast, then there's an element of, "can you blame 'em?" going on here which might be different if it weren't so easy for them to get work once the get across the border.
I can't say that I've thought through how best to put pressure on businesses who are creating this demand. Laws are one thing, but if you accept that capitalism and legal, ethical conduct aren't necessarily one in the same, then the trick would seem to be to make it less profitable to hire illegal aliens, and I'm not sure that's too easy.
It's generally less expensive for businesses to exploit this type of labor because everything is "off the books" and worse still they can always threaten deportation, thereby creating a gambit to control the illegal workers.
It is my opinion that the best way to stop employers from hiring ILLEGAL ALIENS is to make it more expensive to hire them than to hire legal immigrants or citizens.

ANY employer caught hiring ILLEGAL ALIENS (1st offense) should have to pay the $5000 fine per ILLEGAL that is already a Federal law.

In addition, the employer should be required to pay the deportation cost for every ILLEGAL ALIEN in their employ whether on or off the books.

The second time an employer gets caught, with ILLEGAL ALIENS in their employ, they should lose their business license FOREVER. They should never be allowed to run a business in the U.S. again.

The $5000 fine collected from employers should go to the fund to build the fence to secure our southern border.

Without employer sanctions; deportation and securing our borders we will never get the ILLEGAL ALIEN problem under control.

Children, of ILLEGAL ALIENS, born in the U.S. should not be citizens. Our constitution does NOT say that.

America must get control of the ILLEGAL ALIEN situation NOW.

Objective

Pincher Creek, Canada

#1382 Jul 13, 2008
on reading this article, there are some points that stand out to me.
- why, in 23 yrs, has this woman never applied for legal documentation?
- if her sons are serving the country, why have they never tried to have thier mom classified as a legal resident?
- has she ever paid taxes of any kind?
- she claims she wanted to be a nurse but began having babies instead. well boo hoo. that was a choice she made. who supported these babies financially?
- after 23 yrs, why does she need a translator to speak english?

she could have saved herself a whole lot of trouble if she had begun to rectify her position by approaching authorities about legal residence, and at least made the effort to learn the language of the country she moved to. as "pitiful" as her position is, i see only a person who knowingly commited an offence and has now been caught, and complaining bitterly for having to face the music she created.

near me, there is a black man from sudan, legal under refugee status, busting his butt in a slaughter house to provide support for his family that are still trying to get out of war torn sudan. so far, his brother has been granted refugee status and has joined him, and works with him in the slaughter house. the application process for his wife and children has taken over two years so far.

day by day, he never knows if he is going to hear the news that they are alive or dead. yet he waits his turn, trusts in the govt and the immigration process, knowing that eventually the rest of his family will join him, and does everything he can to be a contributing member of society. yes he has even learnt to speak english.

just why is again, that some feel they are so special that they can bypass the immigration process and do whatever the hell they like, when ppl like this man, from a country torn apart by civil war and murder, do the right thing?
fox82

North Ridgeville, OH

#1383 Jul 14, 2008
Objective wrote:
on reading this article, there are some points that stand out to me.
- why, in 23 yrs, has this woman never applied for legal documentation?
- if her sons are serving the country, why have they never tried to have thier mom classified as a legal resident?
- has she ever paid taxes of any kind?
- she claims she wanted to be a nurse but began having babies instead. well boo hoo. that was a choice she made. who supported these babies financially?
- after 23 yrs, why does she need a translator to speak english?
she could have saved herself a whole lot of trouble if she had begun to rectify her position by approaching authorities about legal residence, and at least made the effort to learn the language of the country she moved to. as "pitiful" as her position is, i see only a person who knowingly commited an offence and has now been caught, and complaining bitterly for having to face the music she created.
near me, there is a black man from sudan, legal under refugee status, busting his butt in a slaughter house to provide support for his family that are still trying to get out of war torn sudan. so far, his brother has been granted refugee status and has joined him, and works with him in the slaughter house. the application process for his wife and children has taken over two years so far.
day by day, he never knows if he is going to hear the news that they are alive or dead. yet he waits his turn, trusts in the govt and the immigration process, knowing that eventually the rest of his family will join him, and does everything he can to be a contributing member of society. yes he has even learnt to speak english.
just why is again, that some feel they are so special that they can bypass the immigration process and do whatever the hell they like, when ppl like this man, from a country torn apart by civil war and murder, do the right thing?
AAAAAAMENNN, you said it best, there are "legal" ways to come here and ppl do it all the time and work hard, she is no different.
John David

Karachi, Pakistan

#1384 Apr 11, 2011
What a Great Article it its really informative and innovative keep us posted with new updates. its was really valuable
laddie

Paris, TN

#1385 Apr 19, 2011
yes deport her

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