No-spanking bill's backer -- Mtn. View's Sally Lieber -- taking...

nora wrote:

I was spanked as a child and I thank my parents for it because, by doing so, they showed me that there were negative consequences to making the wrong choices in life. I respected them and I knew not to get out of line. I'm a well adjusted adult and don't have any hang-ups about it. I don't advocate spanking all the time, but only in extreme cases; after warnings have been given, and as a last resort. Children need guidance. Young children without discipline grow up to become teenagers without boundaries and adults without direction. Parents need to do a better job at parenting and children need strong leaders they can respect. Parents today need to love their children unconditionally and be decisive about disciplining their children and when all else fails, spanking may be the last choice. The last thing parents need today is for some outside state government entity to tell them how to do it.

NORA.. EXCELLENT your parents disciplined you because they love you and wanted you to grow up as a good person as you have... you are the one i have been waiting for...your life is the result of your parents caring what their children turned out like... cant figure out why parents today cant see what their doing to their children when they LET them find their own way.........wat evr that means.....

Paula Intravaia

AOL

Spanking is not necessary. Hitting is a violent reaction to a child's behavior and is potentially very dangerous physically and emotionally. Why would a loving parent choose such a harmful way to control a child? Ah, that's it. Hitting is about control not "teaching."
Where to draw the line between too hard, too often, weapon (belt, board, etc.) or not? Draw the line on the side of NON VIOLENCE.

GRANNY TRANNY

Paula Intravaia wrote:

Spanking is not necessary. Hitting is a violent reaction to a child's behavior and is potentially very dangerous physically and emotionally. Why would a loving parent choose such a harmful way to control a child? Ah, that's it. Hitting is about control not "teaching."
Where to draw the line between too hard, too often, weapon (belt, board, etc.) or not? Draw the line on the side of NON VIOLENCE.

if you dont know where to draw the line maybe you have an anger problem......... maybe seek help in that area..

SNJ Norway

Deirdre Chisholm Stephens wrote:

Spanking is an adult word that sounds much better than hitting. Because hitting is what spanking actually is. It's a little difficult to teach children to be themselves and be happy when they're afraid of being hit when they've made a mistake. It's not complicated. If we truly want world peace, we have to start at home, teaching our children that there are proven solutions to a problem other than fear and violence.

YOU ARE SO RIGHT !!!

norske

SNJ Norway wrote:

<quoted text>
YOU ARE SO RIGHT !!!

on the contrary.. spanking discpline teaches a child that misappropriate actions have a negative reward.. if more parents could or would teach this,maybe our jails would not be so full. maybe the youth of today would have more respect for life,others property etc.. or we can do it your way and just let them find their own way good luck with that one WOW

SNJ Norway

norske wrote:

<quoted text>on the contrary.. spanking discpline teaches a child that misappropriate actions have a negative reward.. if more parents could or would teach this,maybe our jails would not be so full. maybe the youth of today would have more respect for life,others property etc.. or we can do it your way and just let them find their own way good luck with that one WOW

You describe a philosphy which used to be applied for teaching dogs. Today, here that is, that philosphy has been left even for dog training...
I pity your children. You actually explain one of the reasons WHY prisons are overfilled with inmates...Violence in all it's forms must be expected to produce violence. Those were (and are still?) many who considered physical punishment of
children as a God given right and supported by the bible. That book was written in a country which still today execute girls for having resisted (successfully) rape and those who did not resist rape successfully. They cut the hands off a thief. "An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth".
Give it a thought at least - your philosophy is doomed to lose some time anyway.

SNJ Norway

Melissa King wrote:

Finally! I really hope this passes. My only complaint would be that it should protect ALL children, not just those under 4. The APA and all of the research has been showing for years that spanking causes more harm than good. It is used by those who simply don’t take the time to learn what really works. Children learn how to hit when they are hit by the parents who they trust to love and care for them. Seventeen countries prohibit all corporal punishment of children. Unfortunately the US is very backward in this area and rather than believe in the solid research showing hitting children is damaging, risky, and not a very good “discipline” technique, parents just keep doing what their parents did - even though it doesn’t work and actually damages the bond of trust between a parent and child. All this nonsense about “parental rights” and “privacy” is so petty. Would we use they use that same nonsense to justify the right of one spouse to hit another or an adult child to hit an elderly parent who wouldn’t cooperate? What’s more important, the health and safety of babies or the “right” of an adult to hit somebody?? People shouldn’t hit people, period. And, to all of you James Dobson followers in the Christian Right, you are NUTS!! Jesus didn’t teach his followers what is right by slapping them around and neither should you! Discipline means “to teach” NOT “to punish” and certainly not “to beat.”

A law that does not protect all children untill they are defined as adults is no good law. So a law only catering for under 4 yr olds seems much insufficient for the needs. Support the law with such amendments
incorporated!! Wish you really good luck as no doubt
the law will not come one second too early by any means! What USA does will be seen by the world - teach them that value., please!

SNJ Norway

Kathryn wrote:

I think smacking is wrong.
In fact, I think that all children, unborns and babies deserve protection from legal assault, just like adults do.
Smacking parents also tend to call their kids 'brat','terrible twos' and other demeaning terms. They are rude.
Simply because you were smacked as a kid doesn't make it right.
It's not discipline. There are better forms of discipline.

Spanking (verbal variations as well) is
a demonstration of your OWN SHORTCOMING as a parent, unfortunatley. If the law and the debates make spanking parents embarrassed and ashamed (and of course uncertain and with shaken self-esteem) that is good - actually. It proves that one has started to work down inherited and fixed opinions to make space for knowledge and reflection.

SNJ Norway

grama gretchen wrote:

<quoted text>good luck with that one honey. can you say probation officer or court system or lawyer?????

Hi gramma gretchen - German background, have you?
You know Germans have - my impression - always had a very "tough" attitude to dicipline and obedience compared to many other European countries. "Ordnung muss sein"!
But do you think the Germans are more happy than any other nations?

grama gretchen

Actually both sides of my family originated in norway. no joke either and i am quite proud of it. we still celebrate christmas with traditional food like lefsa, etc. my dad used to always have a feed of luta fish. i hated the smell in the house when he cooked it. back to the subject, i have seen the results of parents that did not discpline their children........ it just does nt work.. sorry.

SNJ Norway

grama gretchen wrote:

Actually both sides of my family originated in norway. no joke either and i am quite proud of it. we still celebrate christmas with traditional food like lefsa, etc. my dad used to always have a feed of luta fish. i hated the smell in the house when he cooked it. back to the subject, i have seen the results of parents that did not discpline their children........ it just does nt work.. sorry.

Surprize! "Gretchen" is so German. Well, Lutefisk is delicious, but I guess it is with that speciality as with abstaining from spanking: You simply have to get USED to it. And - as Lutefisk takes a very good cook, well-behaving children take very good parents.

I maintain: you will have "diciplined" (=well behaving)children, becoming reponsible, harmonic, happy and independent adults without having been subject to corporal punishment of any kind during childhood. But one must be prepared to spend much more time explaining and talking. Many parents are so "busy" they don't take enough time to talk or spend with their children - particularly fathers I suspect. The role model is endlessly important. What kind of a role model is a spanker??
Some parents beating their children, even very hard, will insist it is "only spanking". Who is there to stop such mistreatment within the 4 walls of the home if there is no law in place enabling society to interfere?? There are only 17 countries in the world today with a law banning spanking - USA is NOT amongst them - Norway is. Sweden started 1979, Norway followed in 1987 (but we had a law in place 1936 that banned corporal punishment in school. As I understand not even that law is in place in USA (nor is it in England actually - surprisingly enough.
You abolished slavery already in 1864(?)- how come children are so unprotected...?

SNJ Norway

Anna de Paula wrote:

I was raised in Bulgaria and emigrated to America about 8 years ago. I have never seen a society so dysfunctional as the American. I am even afraid to put my kids in the public school because so many kids there act aggressively and I realize it's gotten to their subconsciousness. There is a lot of violence towards kids in America - mental and physical. I was never subjected to anything like that in Bulgaria nor were any of my friends and classmates. I wonder how people can't see what kind of children they are creating! So what if someone is a banker, or a businessowner or even a millionnaire??!! Does that make them psychologically healthy and whole people? Not at all! Many of them are "successful" exactly because of their low self-esteem and because they direct their whole energy of anger and frustration towards achieving that goal. Maybe even to prove themselves worthy of their parents love since they weren't appreciated as children. I am sick in my guts when I hear that someone justifies spanking as a necessary tool for teaching RIGHT and WRONG to their children. Words and example and natural consequences are much more powerful tools. I agree that a law should be there and parents should be put into some type of course or therapy if they are found the first time to have used even light spanking. If it's health or life threatening, then other means should be in place which I am sure the law will provide. But education should be on the top of the priority list, not the threat of taking the kids away by the social services!

This post from Anna de Paula deserves to be read ONCE MORE - and again and again - by some of you!!!
Bulgaria used to be one of the countries behind the iron curtain during the cold war - interesting, isn't it?? Outght to give many child-spanking Americans something to chew on..!?

BOBBY OAR

SNJ Norway wrote:

<quoted text>
Surprize! "Gretchen" is so German. Well, Lutefisk is delicious, but I guess it is with that speciality as with abstaining from spanking: You simply have to get USED to it. And - as Lutefisk takes a very good cook, well-behaving children take very good parents.
I maintain: you will have "diciplined" (=well behaving)children, becoming reponsible, harmonic, happy and independent adults without having been subject to corporal punishment of any kind during childhood. But one must be prepared to spend much more time explaining and talking. Many parents are so "busy" they don't take enough time to talk or spend with their children - particularly fathers I suspect. The role model is endlessly important. What kind of a role model is a spanker??
Some parents beating their children, even very hard, will insist it is "only spanking". Who is there to stop such mistreatment within the 4 walls of the home if there is no law in place enabling society to interfere?? There are only 17 countries in the world today with a law banning spanking - USA is NOT amongst them - Norway is. Sweden started 1979, Norway followed in 1987 (but we had a law in place 1936 that banned corporal punishment in school. As I understand not even that law is in place in USA (nor is it in England actually - surprisingly enough.
You abolished slavery already in 1864(?)- how come children are so unprotected...?

SNJ..... I THINK IF I WAS YOUR CHILD I WOULD HAVE WELCOMED SPANKING INSTEAD OF THE CONTINUAL ABUSE YOUR CHILDREN GOT FROM YOUR ASPY TONGUE. SPANKING WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER OPTION THAN BELITTLING YOUR CHILDREN TO THE POINT OF DEPRESSION. BUT I M SURE THEY TURNED OUT GREAT AFTER YEARS OF COUNCELING.

SNJ Norway

BOBBY OAR wrote:

<quoted text>SNJ..... I THINK IF I WAS YOUR CHILD I WOULD HAVE WELCOMED SPANKING INSTEAD OF THE CONTINUAL ABUSE YOUR CHILDREN GOT FROM YOUR ASPY TONGUE. SPANKING WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER OPTION THAN BELITTLING YOUR CHILDREN TO THE POINT OF DEPRESSION. BUT I M SURE THEY TURNED OUT GREAT AFTER YEARS OF COUNCELING.

If I were you....????
Right?
If you were me today you would have observed something to be proud of.
But then it would be necessary for you to tune in on the right channel to catch the signals.

BOBBY OAR

NOW AMERICA MAY NOT HAVE A LAW BANNING SPANKING,BUT I THINK IF YU ASK MOST TROUBLED TEENAGERS OF TO DAY IF THEY WERE SPANKED,MOST WOULD SAY THEY WERE NOT. UNFORTUANATLY THE TEENAGERS OF TODAY WERE RAISED BY PARENTS WHO DID NOT DICIPLINE THEIR CHILDREN. WHEN A PARENT DOES NOT DICIPINE THEIR CHILD THAT CHILD FEELS UNLOVED...FEELS AS IF THE PARENT DOES NOT CARE ...... END RESULT YOU HAVE A CHILD THAT IS NOT RESPECTFULL OF AUTHOURITY. END RESULT A REAL MESS.

Sam16

Saint Louis, MO

SNJ Norway wrote:

<quoted text>
You have so many other ways of "punishing" that it is only in your own mind that spanking seems necessary. Spanking children is a bad, inherited "habit" and definitely NOT necessary. When kids are spanked it is often done in anger. Very easy then that what you call or what was intended as "innocent" spanking become much more than that. So many victims. Bring up that subject with various people of a certain age and you will learn a few things for sure...
You don't deal with your spouse or your friends that way, do you? Why are the small kids not worthy of the same level of respect? They are individuals with minds and senses. Spanking hurts - inside and outside and makes no better understanding. Only fear.
of "spanking". Not worthy of our modern culture.

I don't feel that anyone is saying spanking is the only punishment. I do feel however that there is a time when spanking is completely appropriate. Spanking is not suppose to be intended to abuse someone, it is to get there attention in an obvious way. Young children do not understand what is right or wrong like your friends do... so that argument is out. A swat on the butt is attention grabbing; it is startling. They know that something is not right. Some may blame this whole idea that spanking is okay because of habits given to us by our parents; however, I was not spanked so in my case that is not true. Spanking is situational. For younger kids, sometimes that is how they learn best. I again AM NOT talking about abuse, I am talking about a swat on the butt. Nothing detrimental about it! Too many people have grown up to live normal, great lives even when they were spanked as young children. There is a difference between abuse and spanking and we need to remember that when thinking about banning this law. Abusive parents do it now even though abusing your child is illegal. This law will just make parents who discipline their children using spanking as guilty as abusive parents!

BOBBY OAR

Sam16 wrote:

<quoted text>
I don't feel that anyone is saying spanking is the only punishment. I do feel however that there is a time when spanking is completely appropriate. Spanking is not suppose to be intended to abuse someone, it is to get there attention in an obvious way. Young children do not understand what is right or wrong like your friends do... so that argument is out. A swat on the butt is attention grabbing; it is startling. They know that something is not right. Some may blame this whole idea that spanking is okay because of habits given to us by our parents; however, I was not spanked so in my case that is not true. Spanking is situational. For younger kids, sometimes that is how they learn best. I again AM NOT talking about abuse, I am talking about a swat on the butt. Nothing detrimental about it! Too many people have grown up to live normal, great lives even when they were spanked as young children. There is a difference between abuse and spanking and we need to remember that when thinking about banning this law. Abusive parents do it now even though abusing your child is illegal. This law will just make parents who discipline their children using spanking as guilty as abusive parents!

very well said sam.. norway the asp gets a small part of what is said,then goes off on a tirade ,calling anyone who discplines their child ,a nazi, or an abuser,or what ever. i think some of the worst abuse cases i have seen is the verbal abuse that some parents administer on a daily basis to their children. this really demoralizes the young ones.. mr norway seems the type that uses this type of belittling to administer his so called child raising.. Im not impressed in the least.

SNJ Norway

BOBBY OAR wrote:

<quoted text>very well said sam.. norway the asp gets a small part of what is said,then goes off on a tirade ,calling anyone who discplines their child ,a nazi, or an abuser,or what ever. i think some of the worst abuse cases i have seen is the verbal abuse that some parents administer on a daily basis to their children. this really demoralizes the young ones.. mr norway seems the type that uses this type of belittling to administer his so called child raising.. Im not impressed in the least.

Bobby oar: either you cannot read, or you do not understand what you read. I have not said what you are allegding above and I have also once compared spanking and verbal variations of "spanking"....Read my posts again and try to understand what the words signify.

SNJ Norway