When Is Spanking Child Abuse?

Oct 21, 2008 Full story: New York Times 79

A hearing is underway in a Wisconsin courtroom , for Barry Barnett, a 43-year-old pastor.

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Since: Feb 07

Location hidden

#41 Aug 3, 2009
I'd rather see a kid get spanked than see a spineless parent standing around acting like they don't see their kids running around wild and acting like jungle animals.
PDeverit

Portland, OR

#42 Aug 6, 2009
Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:

Child buttock-battering for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.

Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.

I think the reason why television shows like "Supernanny" and "Dr. Phil" are so popular is because that is precisely what many (not all) people are trying to do.

There are several reasons why child buttock-battering isn't a good idea. Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:

Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak,

The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson,

NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor M.D. and Adah Maurer Ph.D.

Most compelling of all reasons to abandon this worst of all bad habits is the fact that buttock-battering can be unintentional sexual abuse for some children. There is an abundance of educational literature, testimony, documentation, etc available on the subject that can easily be found by doing a little research on the topic.

Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child buttock-battering isn't a good idea:

American Academy of Pediatrics

American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry

Center For Effective Discipline

PsycHealth Ltd Behavioral Health Professionals

Churches' Network For Non-Violence

Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu

Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps

Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children

United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child

Countries where child buttock-battering is prohibited by law:
Sweden, Finland, Norway, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Denmark, Latvia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Germany, Israel, Iceland, Ukraine, Romania, Hungary, Greece, Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Uruguay, Venezuela, Chile, Spain, Costa Rica, Republic of Moldova, and more in process.
In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#43 Aug 6, 2009
PDeverit wrote:
Child buttock-battering vs. DISCIPLINE:
Child buttock-battering for the purpose of gaining compliance is nothing more than an inherited bad habit.
Its a good idea for people to take a look at what they are doing, and learn how to DISCIPLINE instead of hit.
I think the reason why television shows like "Supernanny" and "Dr. Phil" are so popular is because that is precisely what many (not all) people are trying to do.
There are several reasons why child buttock-battering isn't a good idea. Here are some good, quick reads recommended by professionals:
Plain Talk About Spanking
by Jordan Riak,
The Sexual Dangers of Spanking Children
by Tom Johnson,
NO VITAL ORGANS THERE, So They Say
by Lesli Taylor M.D. and Adah Maurer Ph.D.
Most compelling of all reasons to abandon this worst of all bad habits is the fact that buttock-battering can be unintentional sexual abuse for some children. There is an abundance of educational literature, testimony, documentation, etc available on the subject that can easily be found by doing a little research on the topic.
Just a handful of those helping to raise awareness of why child buttock-battering isn't a good idea:
American Academy of Pediatrics
American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry
Center For Effective Discipline
PsycHealth Ltd Behavioral Health Professionals
Churches' Network For Non-Violence
Nobel Peace Prize recipient Archbishop Desmond Tutu
Parenting In Jesus' Footsteps
Global Initiative To End All Corporal Punishment of Children
United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child
Countries where child buttock-battering is prohibited by law:
Sweden, Finland, Norway, Austria, Cyprus, Italy, Denmark, Latvia, Croatia, Bulgaria, Germany, Israel, Iceland, Ukraine, Romania, Hungary, Greece, Netherlands, New Zealand, Portugal, Uruguay, Venezuela, Chile, Spain, Costa Rica, Republic of Moldova, and more in process.
In fact, the US was the only UN member that did not ratify the Convention on the Rights of the Child.
Tell you what, I've looked at all of your references and believe I've got the best reference ever. How about the bible? I would think that God having created mankind would know more about raising children and discipline than any of your so called professionals.
Jessica

Neshkoro, WI

#44 Aug 8, 2009
Amen! How I see it!!!!!
steve

Blairstown, NJ

#46 Aug 9, 2009
Gretchen wrote:
fr steve:
>I can tell you spanking worked on and my brothers as a kid and I spank my 2 1/2 year old son now when he disobeys. It works for me,...<
Yeah, it lets you "think" that you're some big strong "man" who BEATS his toddler. I have immense sympathy for your child. Get some help to get you to stop BEATING your child.
actually Gretchen I never spank him in anger, I always kiss him and tell him I love him before and after and tell him why he is being disciplined. He is a great kid and listens almost all of the time now so Id say its working. If you have a problem with this thats ok this is America.
Gretchen

Tucson, AZ

#47 Aug 10, 2009
fr steve:

>... I always kiss him and tell him I love him before and after and tell him why he is being disciplined....<

You are NOT showing "love" if you beat your child. There is therapy to help you quit BEATING your defenseless child. How would YOU like it if the tables were turned?
steve

Blairstown, NJ

#48 Aug 11, 2009
Gretchen wrote:
fr steve:
>... I always kiss him and tell him I love him before and after and tell him why he is being disciplined....<
You are NOT showing "love" if you beat your child. There is therapy to help you quit BEATING your defenseless child. How would YOU like it if the tables were turned?
well actually I was spanked when I was a kid, and I usually deserved it. Now I have a great relationship with my dad, Im thankful how he raised me. It wasnt perfect but it turned out good. And spanking isnt beating. Please Ive seen beating and a rap on the butt which the pain is gone in 30 seconds aint it

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#49 Aug 13, 2009
steve wrote:
<quoted text>
actually Gretchen I never spank him in anger, I always kiss him and tell him I love him before and after and tell him why he is being disciplined. He is a great kid and listens almost all of the time now so Id say its working. If you have a problem with this thats ok this is America.
Perfect Steve. You sound like a parent who really cares for your child and wants what is best for him. The world should have more parents like you. There is nothing wrong with a spanking, and telling the child why he/she is getting it, teaches them what behavior is unacceptable. Also, by taking the time to explain why, you show the child he is not getting spanked out of anger. It's important to let your yes mean yes and your no mean no. I remember twenty years ago telling my daughters that they would be receiving a spanking when we returned home for bad behavior. I never forgot to deliver, but they also knew what it was for and if you talk to them today, all three of whom work and have great families of their own, they will tell you they deserved it every time and learned from their mistakes. There is a HUGH difference between giving a spanking and beating a child Keep up the good work. You will raise children that you will be proud of and children that will love and respect you.
Ocean56

AOL

#50 Aug 20, 2009
Jennie wrote:
If you cannot think of any other way to punish a child other than hitting, you should not be left alone with a child.
I agree, but with one minor correction; if one thinks spanking and hitting is the only form of discipline for a child, that person shouldn't HAVE a child. Too many parents use spanking as their ONLY form of discipline and take it to extremes, then call it "strict discipline."
Ocean56

AOL

#51 Aug 20, 2009
madgranny wrote:
Spanking isn't HITTING anymore than surgery is STABBING...... I've raised 4 productive non criminal assests to society children by the good old fashioned swat on the behind when needed and owe Jennie no apology for it! I will on the other hand stand before the maker of the universe and give an account on how I raised my children. PS - I did it HIS way.
The old "spare the rod, spoil the child" excuse for wacking your kids whenever they pissed you off? That's the traditional excuse used by militant religionists for excessive physical punishment.@@
Ocean56

AOL

#52 Aug 20, 2009
Shaw wrote:
Here is a good read on the issue of spanking - it's called the BIBLE.
Riiiight, the bible, which to me is nothing more than a collection of FICTION, and lousy fiction at that. I guess you're okay with the other horrors it contained, like slavery, rape of women, etc.? Thanks for reminding me why I kicked all gods, religions and churches to the curb over 20 years ago.

Oh, one more thing, if you don't like other people's opinions on how you raise your kids, don't read them.
Ocean56

AOL

#53 Aug 20, 2009
Eddie M wrote:
When did parents decide that discipline is a dirty word? When did parents decide that the world revolves exclusively around their kids? Enough already! Here's a fact: lecturing little kids or trying to explain bad behavior doesn't work. They don't understand your long-winded lectures. What they understand is action and consequences. Parents are allowing bratty behaviors and then they wonder why their kids are out of control. So what's the next step in bad parenting? Making excuses for your kids lousy behavior. Do the rest of us a favor and close your mouth and actually do something about your kids lousy behavior.
Since this is a parenting forum, anyone who thinks spanking IS abuse has the same right to express their opinion that you do. You can make all the excuses you want for hitting your kids, I'm not buying them. Here's another thought; kids who go through life getting "spanked" by their parents can, when they get older, turn out to believe that they also have the right to hit whenever THEY choose.
Ocean56

AOL

#54 Aug 20, 2009
Eddie M wrote:
<quoted text>
Grow up and get a life? That's your argument? How about parents grow a spine and stop letting your kids do anything they want? How about parents get informed and learn that young kids don't understand, or respond to, long lectures or explanations about their behavior? When a kid is acting up the parents will sit there and lecture about why Junior should stop misbehaving, but Junior stopped listening after the first few seconds. A boring lecture that they don't understand is no deterrent for bad behavior.
Too many parents find it acceptable to allow their kids to run wild and act up in any setting, and much of the time it's either pure laziness or the parent is completely clueless about discipline. Consequently, the rest of us can't go anywhere, restaurants, libraries, stores, coffee shops, etc, without having to put up with screaming, tantruming, out-of-control brats.
I have a counter-argument, how about pro-corporal punishment parents start thinking about ways to discipline their children OTHER than spanking them? As for kids in stores and other public places, when DS was small, which was many years ago, all I needed to do was pick him up and carry him OUT of the store or public place. No spanking was necessary.
Ocean56

AOL

#55 Aug 20, 2009
How I See It wrote:
<quoted text>
Grow up. If not, please don't have children. We have enough brats in this world already.
So any child who doesn't grow up with regular spankings or even worse is a "brat." Got it.@@
Ocean56

AOL

#56 Aug 20, 2009
Eddie M wrote:
I'd rather see a kid get spanked than see a spineless parent standing around acting like they don't see their kids running around wild and acting like jungle animals.
Or a parent can simply take the little or older child OUT of the public place (store, restaurant, etc.) without hitting him and take him home. Worked for me whenever DS acted up when he was a little guy. And he was much better behaved the next time we went back, which was a week or more later. There ARE better alternatives, if parents can be bothered to think of them.

Since: Jun 09

Location hidden

#57 Aug 21, 2009
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
So any child who doesn't grow up with regular spankings or even worse is a "brat." Got it.@@
It obvious you haven't read my other posts. Every child is different. Some may require more discipline than others. There is nothing wrong with a spanking when the child deserves it, no matter what you Dr. Spock loving morons happen to think. I never said to beat a child or to discipline in anger. I always explained to my daughters why they were receiving a spanking but they most always knew before I told them. You've already stated you couldn't care less what the bible says, so already you lack any credibility. I know that God who created mankind knows more about how to raise children than someone like you who thinks children should be on the same level as their parents. They have enough friends, so you should stick to being their parent. As I said each child is different and that is why the bible says to "bring up a child according to the way for him". The way for one child may not be the way for the next. Grow up or you may require a spanking.
Ann

Neshkoro, WI

#58 Aug 25, 2009
Ocean56 sounds to me like a very angry man who has been hurt and that's why he's turned on God and traditional values. The sad part is Jesus is the only one that can help you. PS - I beleive in spanking! Spanking has been taken out so much and look at our kids in this day and age - they are suffering for the stupidity of thoughtless angry adults who they themselves defy authority and encourage young people to do the same by trying to ban spanking! Get a clue! And yes, I'm angry!
Bri

Fairwater, WI

#59 Nov 18, 2009
Trial date for this man - April 29th, 2010

Since: Feb 07

Location hidden

#60 Nov 18, 2009
Ocean56 wrote:
<quoted text>
Or a parent can simply take the little or older child OUT of the public place (store, restaurant, etc.) without hitting him and take him home. Worked for me whenever DS acted up when he was a little guy. And he was much better behaved the next time we went back, which was a week or more later. There ARE better alternatives, if parents can be bothered to think of them.
That would be great...if they would actually do that, but most don't.
Bonnie

Wilmer, AL

#61 Apr 2, 2010
The charges against Pastor Barry have been dropped after almost 2 long years and nearly $21,000 later. Thank you to the Poynette community for your support. The Barnett's will begin working at the legislative level to change the laws in Wisconsin so this does not happen to your family. You will be able to DISCIPLINE your children! Not abuse - DISCIPLINE.

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