Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 31999 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#24531 May 1, 2013
raises wrote:
<quoted text>
What about FY 12 to FY 13? You claim no raises for only a year. If you made $40,000 from 2011-12 and $40,000 in 2012-2013, that's two years. Boy I hope you don't keep your company's books. Wont go back on that statement, will ya? Yep, cause you were wrong with your statement. Its ok to admit a mistake. Really, it is.
How is it two years? For your claim to be true the person would have had to make 40k also for 2010-11. Here is an example for you.
2010-11 39k
2011-12 40k (raise in salary over previous year)
2012-13 40k
You can see the person actually received a raise in salary for the 2011-12 year over the previous years 2010-11 salary. That leaves you with only one year of no increase in salary.
For your statement to be true:
2009-2010 39k
2010-11 40k (raise in salary over previous year)
2011-12 40k no raise
2012-13 40k no raise.
That is three years at the same salary.... but only two years with no raise in salary.
As for lump sum payments. They have been around in the private sector for many years. They are used to keep the base salary scale from escalating. Some benefits are tied to the base salary and it keeps the costs lower. It also as you correctly stated stops the compounding effect.
I only have one big question on this subject of salary. Many started out posting no raises in salary for 4 years straight and now it seems to be down to one year. Which is it? If a salary is increased through a percentage raise or lump sum which makes the salary greater than the previous year thats an increase in salary ( commonly called a raise in annual salary). If the lump sum goes away thats a decrease in salary unless it is offset by a percentage increase. If the total salary stays the same year to year we can all agree thats a freeze (or no raise in salary). So who has been posting the correct information based on the salary data?
Answer

Brinkhaven, OH

#24532 May 1, 2013
At schools, just like at Union Run factories, there is a salary schedule. The annual "raise" is called a step increase, because you move over a step on the schedule. The only people who do not benefit are those who are "stepped out", meaning that they are at the top of the salary schedule.

So a "step" is an increase, but not a raise, per se.
Hey Numbnuts

Sunbury, OH

#24533 May 1, 2013
raises wrote:
<quoted text>
What about FY 12 to FY 13? You claim no raises for only a year. If you made $40,000 from 2011-12 and $40,000 in 2012-2013, that's two years. Boy I hope you don't keep your company's books. Wont go back on that statement, will ya? Yep, cause you were wrong with your statement. Its ok to admit a mistake. Really, it is.
Hard to say the year is not over yet.
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#24534 May 1, 2013
Answer wrote:
At schools, just like at Union Run factories, there is a salary schedule. The annual "raise" is called a step increase, because you move over a step on the schedule. The only people who do not benefit are those who are "stepped out", meaning that they are at the top of the salary schedule.
So a "step" is an increase, but not a raise, per se.
Any increase in your hourly pay or salary pay for whatever reason is a raise in salary. Even a lump sum (called signing bonus in some union factories) increases the pay for that year. To be claiming no raises for four years is to imply their w2's for the past 4 years is exactly the same..
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#24535 May 1, 2013
Answer wrote:
At schools, just like at Union Run factories, there is a salary schedule. The annual "raise" is called a step increase, because you move over a step on the schedule. The only people who do not benefit are those who are "stepped out", meaning that they are at the top of the salary schedule.
So a "step" is an increase, but not a raise, per se.
Even at Gm, the UAW's contract shows that new hires start out at a lower level than longer term employees then each year get a "step" or raise until after 4 years they hit the regular max rate. After that the hourly rates go up based on the percentage increase per year negotiated in the contract or you may receive a lump sum (GM calls them signing bonus's) or a combination.

Lets ignore the bad economic years that we have been going through. In normal times are step increase the only increase teachers ever get? Or do they get percentage increases in addition to step raises? In addition has any teacher in Springboro actually had their pay cut from year to year. In other words is the w2 amount lower than a previous year?
Convert

Lebanon, OH

#24536 May 1, 2013
questions more questions wrote:
<quoted text>
Even at Gm, the UAW's contract shows that new hires start out at a lower level than longer term employees then each year get a "step" or raise until after 4 years they hit the regular max rate. After that the hourly rates go up based on the percentage increase per year negotiated in the contract or you may receive a lump sum (GM calls them signing bonus's) or a combination.
Lets ignore the bad economic years that we have been going through. In normal times are step increase the only increase teachers ever get? Or do they get percentage increases in addition to step raises? In addition has any teacher in Springboro actually had their pay cut from year to year. In other words is the w2 amount lower than a previous year?
Well we can always look at how that panned out fr the GM workers in Dayton and elsewhere.
You get more money you got a raise, whatever you want to call the increase. No wonder our kids don't do well on tests, the teachers don't even know what a raise is.
Answer

United States

#24537 May 1, 2013
I totally agree. More money than the previous year is a raise, no matter what you call it.
Genius

Yellow Springs, OH

#24538 May 1, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Raise is a raise is a raise.
If your pay is more than it was before you got a raise.
The market of supply and demand will ultimately decide who gets what.
In our instance the princes and princesses of the ball are the special education teachers, they make more than everyone regardless of years of seniority.
A bonus is a bonus and not a raise. Let's get that clear. If I need to go into greater detail for you just let me know. I'm sure it's not that as simple for you to figure out as it is for others.
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#24539 May 1, 2013
Convert wrote:
<quoted text>
Well we can always look at how that panned out fr the GM workers in Dayton and elsewhere.
You get more money you got a raise, whatever you want to call the increase. No wonder our kids don't do well on tests, the teachers don't even know what a raise is.
Yes, it didn't work out too well for GM did it? At least it didn't work until Uncle George and Uncle Barrack bailed them out. I brought GM up because the poster I was addressing tried to compare the steps in the teachers union with so called steps in a union factory. GM's contract was the easiest to find.I cannot find any union factory that provides as many step raises for their employees as the teachers union receive. There may be a union factory like that, I just haven't found it.

That was the thrust of my responses. Too many people are playing games claiming a step is not a raise. To most people if your salary goes up in comparison to the previous years salary (regardless of the reason: step, percentage, lump sum) you have received a raise in your salary for that year.
I am not making a judgement on teachers pay either way. I am only addressing the semantics used by some posters who try and claim that even though their salary as shown on their w2 increased, they received no raise.
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#24540 May 1, 2013
Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
A bonus is a bonus and not a raise. Let's get that clear. If I need to go into greater detail for you just let me know. I'm sure it's not that as simple for you to figure out as it is for others.
Thanks for your post.. The Goalpost has now successfully been moved.. KUDOS!

I do not know if Just Watching wants to address your moving of the goalposts with BONUSes or not.

But if I take it up be prepared to explain bonus, lump sum, percentage increase and how union contracts are measured .(hint: its the total compensation increase over the life of the contract).
Or do you want to move it on to executive compensation where actual bonuses or more common? Maybe athletic contracts we can take up next which is a whole different animal.
Or should we just skip to the usual name calling and save time?(that was a joke)
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#24541 May 1, 2013
Or do you want to move it on to executive compensation where actual bonuses are more common?

sorry about having "or" instead of "are" in previous post. Edited out a sentence and screwed it up
raises

Springboro, OH

#24542 May 1, 2013
questions more questions wrote:
<quoted text>
Any increase in your hourly pay or salary pay for whatever reason is a raise in salary. Even a lump sum (called signing bonus in some union factories) increases the pay for that year. To be claiming no raises for four years is to imply their w2's for the past 4 years is exactly the same..
To steal Just Watching's eloquent usage of the internet dictionary, I found the following:

"A bonus is a gift to reward performance, paid either by a private employer or by a government - something given or paid over and above what is due."

Hmmmm, doesn't sound like a raise in salary to me. In fact, your buddies on the BOE even list it as "bonus". I wonder why?
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#24543 May 1, 2013
raises wrote:
<quoted text>
To steal Just Watching's eloquent usage of the internet dictionary, I found the following:
"A bonus is a gift to reward performance, paid either by a private employer or by a government - something given or paid over and above what is due."
Hmmmm, doesn't sound like a raise in salary to me. In fact, your buddies on the BOE even list it as "bonus". I wonder why?
My buddies on the BOE? Funny. and the attacks begin..hehehehe
Not having the actual contract wording in front of me I do not know if the actual contract calls it a bonus or lump sum payment. Each contract is worded different in different professions. Obviously I accept your definition of a bonus being over and above what is due.. now answer me this... if a contract states that a specific lump sum percentage or bonus is to be paid to all employees:Is it over and above what is due? Obviously it is due by nature of the contract language. So how can it be over and above what is due?

The lump sums are given in lieu of a percentage increase. They are sometimes called bonuses to make employees feel better about getting screwed on the paltry or lacking percentage increases.
An executive getting a bonus is not a guaranteed bonus. Sometimes their contracts have stock options written in based on performance of the company. Sometimes a board of Directors will award a Bonus over and above anything that is already due in the executives contract because of outstanding performance. Athletes try to get as much up front cash and it is called a signing bonus or guaranteed up front money. It is not over and above what is due (it is in the contract after all and due to them legally) Better to have the cash now than it is to sign a long term contract thats not guaranteed.

But back to your main point, using your definition of over and above what is due, If the bonus or lump some is already in the contract and is legally obligated to be paid.. It is not by your own definition over and above what is due. By definition and contractual obligations it is due.
Numbers

Brecksville, OH

#24544 May 1, 2013
questions more questions wrote:
<quoted text>
My buddies on the BOE? Funny. and the attacks begin..hehehehe
Not having the actual contract wording in front of me I do not know if the actual contract calls it a bonus or lump sum payment. Each contract is worded different in different professions. Obviously I accept your definition of a bonus being over and above what is due.. now answer me this... if a contract states that a specific lump sum percentage or bonus is to be paid to all employees:Is it over and above what is due? Obviously it is due by nature of the contract
language. So how can it be over and above what is due?
The lump sums are given in lieu of a percentage increase. They are sometimes called bonuses to make employees feel better about getting screwed on the paltry or lacking percentage increases.
An executive getting a bonus is not a guaranteed bonus. Sometimes their contracts have stock options written in based on performance of the company. Sometimes a board of Directors will award a Bonus over and above anything that is already due in the executives contract because of outstanding performance. Athletes try to get as much up front cash and it is called a signing bonus or guaranteed up front money. It is not over and above what is due (it is in the contract after all and due to them legally) Better to have the cash now than it is to sign a long term contract thats not guaranteed.
But back to your main point, using your definition of over and above what is due, If the bonus or lump some is already in the contract and is legally obligated to be paid.. It is not by your own definition over and above what is due. By definition and contractual obligations it is due.
It is a 1% bonus to all salaried (certified) employees if the district achieves "Excellant with Distinction"
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24545 May 1, 2013
raises wrote:
<quoted text>
To steal Just Watching's eloquent usage of the internet dictionary, I found the following:
"A bonus is a gift to reward performance, paid either by a private employer or by a government - something given or paid over and above what is due."
Hmmmm, doesn't sound like a raise in salary to me. In fact, your buddies on the BOE even list it as "bonus". I wonder why?
If you make more money than you used to you got a raise.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24546 May 1, 2013
Numbers wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a 1% bonus to all salaried (certified) employees if the district achieves "Excellant with Distinction"
With 2000 plus kids in our district who are not getting the education the taxpayers have funded, the thought of earning extra money for jumping over the lowest branches of education seems a bit disingenuous.
questions more questions

Dayton, OH

#24547 May 1, 2013
Numbers wrote:
<quoted text>
It is a 1% bonus to all salaried (certified) employees if the district achieves "Excellant with Distinction"
then it is truly a performance bonus. Thanks for pointing out what type of bonus it is. Like I stated I do not have a copy of the contract. Nor the inclination to read it because it doesn't have any impact on my day to day life.
With so many different types of raises, percentage, step, lump sum ( and many times lump sum is called bonus), and yes I forgot about a performance bonus. Most companies do not give performance bonuses or profit sharing for union employees in the private sector.
raises

Springboro, OH

#24548 May 2, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
If you make more money than you used to you got a raise.
Sure - keep repeating over and over...some day it will become true....Yep, and a large majority haven't had one for two years, some three....not only one like you claim.
Simple Minded

Cincinnati, OH

#24549 May 2, 2013
Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
A bonus is a bonus and not a raise. Let's get that clear. If I need to go into greater detail for you just let me know. I'm sure it's not that as simple for you to figure out as it is for others.
School union employees in Springboro should be grateful they have a job this year! Our Springboro Teachers do not need more money
"given." Springboro Teachers need Workplace Freedom to EARN more on their own merit (instead of being bound by old outdated collective bargaining laws).
Just Asking

Cincinnati, OH

#24550 May 2, 2013
raises wrote:
<quoted text>
To steal Just Watching's eloquent usage of the internet dictionary, I found the following:
"A bonus is a gift to reward performance, paid either by a private employer or by a government - something given or paid over and above what is due."
Hmmmm, doesn't sound like a raise in salary to me. In fact, your buddies on the BOE even list it as "bonus". I wonder why?
Do school teachers pay income taxes?

Are teachers required to report this "bonus" on their income tax returns?

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