Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,561

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Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24316 Apr 18, 2013
Highlights from the offer posted on the district website

Salary (from section 17.01 and 17.02 of the SEA proposal):

- proposes base salary increase of 5.6% for all employees

- Proposes to grant credit for 2011-12 and 2012-13 for placement on the new 2013-14 salary schedule for any employees working > 120 days in those years. Would place most employees 3 steps ahead in the salary schedule resulting in large salary increases for next school year 2013-14.

- Proposes to reinstate automatic step salary increases providing for additional annual salary increase of 4.75% for teachers with Bachelors degree (BA0), 5% for BA + 15 hours of graduate education, 5.25% for teachers with a Masters degree, 5.5% for MA+15 hrs, 5.75% for MA+ 30 hrs, and 6.0% for MA+45 hrs.

Example 1: BA-step 0 in 2010-11 =$34,563 --> BA3 in 2013-14 =$41,702

17.1% increase 34563/41702 = 82.9%$31.22/hr increase to $37.67/hour

Example 2: MA-step 5 in 2010-11 =$47,438 --> MA8 in 2013-14=$55,845.

15.1% increase 47438/55845 = 84.9%$42.85/hr increase to $50.44/hr

Example 3: MA+30-step 10 in 2010-11 =$62,041 --> MA+30-step 13 in 2013-14 =$71,814. 13.6% increase

$56.04/hr increase to $64.87/hr

All pay per hour calculations include the mandatory taxpayer funded 14% retirement contribution paid on every dollar the teacher earns. Thus whether you like it or not that contribution is a constant cost per hour for each employee.

Not to be picky, but who is underpaid the 25 year old making $31/hour?

The 32 year old teacher making $43/hour?

Or the 40 year old teacher making $56/hour?
Hold On

United States

#24317 Apr 18, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>We want to give him a forum to release his financials on his basketball camps and show the community how much money was there, where it went, and why he has been hiding behind a union paid lawyer for the entire school year.

All the community is asking for is an honest accounting of the programs and now that Mr. Holtrey is free to speak we would like to give him the opportunity to explain a few things.
Who is "we" and who says he is hiding anything?! Camps all along were allowed to be run by coaches and Monroe's used toward THEIR programs. The board went against the state and demanded they pay them first, without even giving coaches prior knowledge of their crazy change. This board is insane. They all need to go. Greedy. And they don't have the best interest of our kids at heart, no mater what they say.
Really

Piqua, OH

#24318 Apr 18, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Never mind, I was talking to myself earlier
You're starting to lose it - you may want to take a break from Topix - maybe go out and mow the lawn, or coach a soccer team, or help an aging parent, or .... There are many better things in life than going on and on about Springboro test scores to the same group of losers that are never 1) going to come up with ideas to help the cause and 2) probably don't even care about the test scores as long as they don't have to pay any extra taxes.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24319 Apr 18, 2013
Hold On wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is "we" and who says he is hiding anything?! Camps all along were allowed to be run by coaches and Monroe's used toward THEIR programs. The board went against the state and demanded they pay them first, without even giving coaches prior knowledge of their crazy change. This board is insane. They all need to go. Greedy. And they don't have the best interest of our kids at heart, no mater what they say.
Your post makes limited sense, but I will try and provide a cogent reply.

We would be the community that would like to see a clean accounting of the program.

What is wrong with showing the community the financial records on these camps?

That is all the Budget and Finance Committee asked for in the boosters case and look where that went?

The Budget and Finance Committee began looking into the rational of pay to participate programs. The rationale for the pay to participate was to make up necessary budget shortfalls in the athletic progams. The Budget and Finance Committee wanted to discover all of the associated revenues and expenses that made up the final number. The year before the Board of Education had voted to reduce the pay to participate fees but had no rational mode of explaining how they arrived at the numbers they did. No new monies had come in, so how did they decide the could reduce everyone $100. The Budget and Finance Committee went about doing this in a more logical fashion, by asking each coach to submit their planned budgets and wish lists for the coming year. They responses ranged from the request for a press box for $75,000 for baseball to coaches shirts.
To offset the expenses they requested all support groups provide them with a financial statement of the group's contributions, the admission revenues, and all other monies that were supposed to be earmarked for athletic support.

The Band Boosters complied first and fully with complete programs and necessary funding and fund raising documentation. Others were not so cooperative and resisted any efforts made by the Budget and Finance Committee to discuss their finances in relation to the cost of our athletic programs. Persistency on the Budget and Finance Committee's part finally forced an examination of the boosters books for the first time in 20 years. What they found is now public record, a loss of $439,000 of our children's money. This amount only reflects 8 years of the treasurer of the booster's reign, they were unable to find any earlier records It also in no way accounts for any cash that may have disappeared from the uncounted bags of cash that passed through the organization.

When the coaches were asked to provide an accounting of their utilization of the public resources for their camps, they balked. Soon thereafter they got themselves a union lawyer and declined to cooperate with the State Auditor sent down to inspect their finances.

Why would they decline to cooperate and open their books in a transparent fashion?

Why all the drama with union lawyers, this is not a contract issue.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24320 Apr 18, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
You're starting to lose it - you may want to take a break from Topix - maybe go out and mow the lawn, or coach a soccer team, or help an aging parent, or .... There are many better things in life than going on and on about Springboro test scores to the same group of losers that are never 1) going to come up with ideas to help the cause and 2) probably don't even care about the test scores as long as they don't have to pay any extra taxes.
I would agree with you, but then both of us would be wrong.
poundsand

Miamisburg, OH

#24322 Apr 18, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Highlights from the offer posted on the district website

Salary (from section 17.01 and 17.02 of the SEA proposal):
- proposes base salary increase of 5.6% for all employees
I would love to have a 5.6% salary increase. That's double the standard in the public sector.
The Scoffer

Piqua, OH

#24323 Apr 18, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
You're starting to lose it - you may want to take a break from Topix - maybe go out and mow the lawn, or coach a soccer team, or help an aging parent, or .... There are many better things in life than going on and on about Springboro test scores to the same group of losers that are never 1) going to come up with ideas to help the cause and 2) probably don't even care about the test scores as long as they don't have to pay any extra taxes.
Sounds like the pep squad for the red ribbon Victim Project!
Get real, it is the local Taxpayer who never gets a break while carrying the heavy burden of forced unionism our backs.
In government, labor unions USE the system to enhance members at the expense of TAXPAYERS. The goal of the "status quo" unionized rigidity is to require MORE teachers and, therefore, more union members paying union dues. To the SEA, Education of OUR children
is all about the MONEY, and who has the control and power.
Here Come da Judge

Piqua, OH

#24324 Apr 18, 2013
Hold On wrote:
<quoted text>
Who is "we" and who says he is hiding anything?! Camps all along were allowed to be run by coaches and Monroe's used toward THEIR programs. The board went against the state and demanded they pay them first, without even giving coaches prior knowledge of their crazy change. This board is insane. They all need to go. Greedy. And they don't have the best interest of our kids at heart, no mater what they say.
After reading your rantings, just remember, the same measure you use to judge others is the same measure by which you are judged.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24325 Apr 18, 2013
How much money is the school district not collecting in its student fees each year?

A little more than half of the $439,000 Mr. Harves boosted from the boosters

The amount is $233,000 in uncollected school fees.

At $65 per kid that comes down to fees not being paid for about 3500 kids out of the 5700 or in our district.

The administration's previous solution was to up charge those suckers who actually paid an additional 25% to get a little more money. They were a little snide when they commented the board made them stop so now they don't get as much money.

Do you really think people are going to vote to give this district more money when they can't manage the funds now?

We gave away $90,000 in facility usage fees for no good reason.

We got boosted by the boosters for over $1,000,000 over the past two decades.

We have $233,000 that seem lost in fees we should have collected 7 months ago.

And now the teachers want a 25% salary increase, or another $5,000,000 or so plus 14% for mandatory retirement which means another $700,000 per year.

I am beginning to doubt whether or not the community will pass the renewal after the community has watched these shenanigans and seen the union fight the community every step of the way whenever reform is mentioned.

Particularly when 2000 + kids in our district are not getting the education that the taxpayers have already funded.
Amazing

Piqua, OH

#24326 Apr 18, 2013
Blah blah blah wrote:
<quoted text>
Ok 'Just Watching'. AKA Doug, the people that make up the athletic boosters are wonderful people that work hard for our kids. Instead of spending so much time on this site why don't you get your degree in teaching and help the so called 2000 kids that are failing. I am proud my children go to Springboro and they have had wonderful teachers that work hard ALL year round. Enough is enough!!
Spot on blah! Enough is Enough! Don't these busy body tax-paying parents know that it is the union teacher in every classroom that is the most important resource? Why can't these busy-body taxpaying parents just stay out of the board room and just trust the union terachers to wonderfully educate our children into Proficient with Distinction?
Genius

Dayton, OH

#24327 Apr 18, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
I am glad you are starting to see the light. 20% of our students failing to pass an 8th grade math tests that measures what they have learned from grade 1- grade 8 is a travesty. Somewhere along the previous 8 years we have gotten way off the track teaching math. If we are excellent with distinction with that track record, whoa are the schools in the bottom of the heap.
And this is what we receive in return after 8 years in our school system,
80% scoring a D or F on the Ohio Achievement Assessment test.
8th Grade 2011-2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment Tests Results.
.
Math .......50 possible points on the test
.
.
This is the low bar the state sets for every school in Ohio so even the urban schools can pass something.
State Rating System and distribution of students for the 8th grade
.
Limited.......... 3 Students
Limited.......... 20% was the Average score for this group
Limited..........definition--0 -10 correct answers =(0-20% correct)
.
Basic..........25 Students
Basic ..........27% was the Average score for this group
Basic..........definition--11- 15 correct answers =(22-30% correct)
.
Proficient........174 Students
Proficient........47% was the Average score for this group
Proficient.........definition- -16-29 correct answers =(32-58% correct)
.
Accelerated.....159 Students
Accelerated.....67% was the Average score for this group
Accelerated.....definition--30 -36 correct answers =(60-72% correct)
.
Advanced........77 Students
Advanced........85% was the Average score for this group
Advanced........definition--37 -50 correct answers =(74-100% correct)
.
Applying Mr. Malone's same grading system used for assigning percentages to grades earned in the college credit program (PSEO)
.
F.....Below 62.99% correct answers.......239 Students
Percentage of Students.....55% receiving F
D..... 63%- 74.99% correct answers......108 Students
Percentage of Students.....25% receiving D
C......75%- 84.99% correct answers........49 Students
Percentage of Students.....11% receiving C
B..... 85%- 92.99% correct answers........36 Students
Percentage of Students.....8% receiving B
A..... 93% correct answers and above.....6 Students
Percentage of Students.....1% receiving A
With Mr. Malone's scale of actual grading, we see that 80% of the children who took the Ohio Achievement Assessment Math Test are not getting the education the taxpayers are funding?
Again, who is underpaid for the above results?
You are pretty good a deflecting. Still waiting for an answer as to why 20% is sterling for us folks in Dayton?
Math Major

Norwalk, OH

#24328 Apr 18, 2013
Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
You are pretty good a deflecting. Still waiting for an answer as to why 20% is sterling for us folks in Dayton?
You sound like the perfect response to your own question.
borobeef

Dayton, OH

#24329 Apr 19, 2013
Why are you so full of hate?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24330 Apr 19, 2013
It's called love when you want what is best for the children, not what is most expedient for the adults.

Try it, you may find yourself another person.
Inside Out

Piqua, OH

#24331 Apr 19, 2013
borobeef wrote:
Why are you so full of hate?
Why can't YOU understand?.....that the hate you perceive "outsiders" to be full of...is just a projection of what "you be" on the inside?
Not another tax

Dayton, OH

#24332 Apr 19, 2013
This board is doing exactly what they promised to do when they ran for office. They are doing what the majority of the community asked them to do. They are doing what the majority of the community asked for when they voted down 5 levys!

I sure didn't see many of those red ribbions around lately.
Questions

Piqua, OH

#24333 Apr 19, 2013
Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
You are pretty good a deflecting. Still waiting for an answer as to why 20% is sterling for us folks in Dayton?
Can you answer these questions, please?
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Please define what you mean by "leading the way of tearing our district apart".
Exactly how is this transpiring?
By hiring more teachers in areas of need?
By investing in technology that expands it into every classroom?
By investing in keeping our children safe by means of upgraded transportation?
By putting a premium on basic and continual maintenance of our facilities?
By balancing the budget to ensure adequate funding?
By encouraging other options for higher level education for our students and parents?
Please tell us all how.
Inquiring Minds

Piqua, OH

#24334 Apr 19, 2013
Not another tax wrote:
This board is doing exactly what they promised to do when they ran for office. They are doing what the majority of the community asked them to do. They are doing what the majority of the community asked for when they voted down 5 levys!
I sure didn't see many of those red ribbions around lately.
Inquiring minds are now asking if the latest red ribbon "support our teachers" campaign is not symbolism over substance. Are there any among our parents and community members who do not support our teachers?
We can all rally the red in support of our teacher’s rights to negotiate themselves A Fair Day's Pay For A Fair Day's Work;
But, can we all support the “status quo business as usual” old, outdated teachers union rights to walk out on our children's classroom education?
Why not add a white ribbon in support of our students' rights to receive a quality education, while keeping the costs of that education affordable for Springboro parents and taxpaying homeowners?
Red and white ribbons showing strong support for our teachers and children are made strongest by adding a blue ribbon of support for our school board representatives, school district administrative staff, and school district taxpayers? Can our community as a whole support our teachers and staff separate from support of our school district taxpayers and their elected officials?
Why not rally for the unity of red, white, and blue supporting substance over symbolism? Let's all rally in support of ALL working together to ensure that the children of the Springboro community receive an excellent education while keeping the costs of that education affordable, by carefully adhering to responsible spending!
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24335 Apr 19, 2013
Questions wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you answer these questions, please?
<quoted text>
Except for question 1 which I don't see how, perhaps that is your question to answer
The rest of them are what the Board of Education have accomplished since January 2012.
Thanks for taking the time to point those things out.
Pretty impressive list of accomplishments in support of our kids.
Hold On

United States

#24336 Apr 19, 2013
Just wondering, who does Doug Wiedeman think he is with all his head shaking? So annoying. Go away.

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