Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,261

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No Towne Crafts

Girard, OH

#23320 Feb 2, 2013
Kabler. Babble. Nonsense. God doesn't like ugly.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23321 Feb 2, 2013
Lurker wrote:
<quoted text>
The teachers aren't probably sharing their concerns with you since you were the sponsor of Mr Petroni and Rigano's campaign.
They are very concerned for their jobs and afraid of what could happen to them. These are professionals who should be treated with respect! Not made the scapegoats for everything!
Why would they be concerned about their jobs? The only ones who should ever be concerned about their job in any business are the ones who are underperforming. Everyone in business knows who those people are, as well as the individuals themselves. It never comes as a complete shock to anyone.

I do not believe that the board is scapegoating anyone but the system into which we are all so vested. The system we currently employ cheats children, parents, and taxpayers.

2000 plus children in our school district are getting less than 63% of the material on an achievement test that has been dumbed down. If we measure against international standards the entire district would convulse with repulsion.

We are under no obligation to the state to maintain the status quo and relegate those 2000 plus children to the collateral damaged educational casualty list.

The question becomes, do we have the teachers that are capable of competing on the world stage or just against some of our less fortunate neighbors?
SPIN SPIN

Girard, OH

#23322 Feb 2, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Why would they be concerned about their jobs? The only ones who should ever be concerned about their job in any business are the ones who are underperforming. Everyone in business knows who those people are, as well as the individuals themselves. It never comes as a complete shock to anyone.
I do not believe that the board is scapegoating anyone but the system into which we are all so vested. The system we currently employ cheats children, parents, and taxpayers.
2000 plus children in our school district are getting less than 63% of the material on an achievement test that has been dumbed down. If we measure against international standards the entire district would convulse with repulsion.
We are under no obligation to the state to maintain the status quo and relegate those 2000 plus children to the collateral damaged educational casualty list.
The question becomes, do we have the teachers that are capable of competing on the world stage or just against some of our less fortunate neighbors?
Keep the spin going. 2000+ children left behind? You want these same teachers to carry a gun and save your child by risking their lives? What a crazy loon you are. You want everything but you don't want to pay for it and you don't want it any way but yours. You spew arm the teachers to force them to protect your children - but who is going to protect the teachers from you and your cronies???
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23323 Feb 3, 2013
SPIN SPIN wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep the spin going. 2000+ children left behind? You want these same teachers to carry a gun and save your child by risking their lives? What a crazy loon you are. You want everything but you don't want to pay for it and you don't want it any way but yours. You spew arm the teachers to force them to protect your children - but who is going to protect the teachers from you and your cronies???
If you would care to put your interpretation on the district report card utilizing the criteria the state has put forth, please feel free. Explain to the parents of this district how learning half of what their children should is good enough for them.

In case you haven't noticed, we all are paying for that lack of education for over 2000 children in this district. We are paying now through taxes and will be again in lost opportunities for those same 2000 plus children who never got the education they were promised.

I am more than certain that no one has ever advocated passing out shotguns to every school district employee. If you can find that quote, please forward it on for all of the community. You would be free once again to be protected by someone else if you had neither the desire, nor ability, to pass the requisite tests

Secondly, school employees would also be protecting themselves. Once again, who among us does not believe any victim of gun violence did not wish they had more than a gun free zone placard between them and a shooter? How many of those being shot at would rather of had something with which to return fire?

All that is needed at the school is the credible threat that a few people there may be armed and pose a threat to the knucklehead who is seemingly not deterred by signs advertising gun free zones.
It could be five people carrying weapons or it could be none, the knucklehead would never know for sure.

Cowards are generally dissuaded quite easily.
Reflection

Piqua, OH

#23324 Feb 3, 2013
Lurker wrote:
For the record, the majority of people at the well-attended school board meeting were not part of the teachers union. Just because I support our great teachers, doesn't mean I am a union thug!
For the record......
BORO look in the mirror wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree wholehearedly that many of Jan 10's participants displayed an incredible amount of pretentiousness. Teachers in the audience thinking of nothing but THEMSELVES collectively shouted down further conversion school discussion. Certain parents chimed in with these teachers. That was nothing less than a union on union orgy. If you see parents from the 1/10 speakers list in and around town, you may still notice a strange brown substance smeared in and around their nose and inside their nostrils.
What happened Jan 10th is a gross injustice to parents in this district who have students who are struggling in one or more academic areas. Many have problems at home, sometimes with parents that aren't parents. These are the kids that sometimes get so discouraged that they drop out of school. A lot of them would tell you for various reasons they have trouble keeping up with the rest of the class. Some of these struggling students might tell you they're being completely left behind by a school district's omnipresent subliminal standard....
"Excellent with Distinction...with NO exception"
What happened Jan 10th is a gross injustice to many district parents of gifted children. Ask some of these kids. Many of them will tell you they reach a point where they feel they are no longer being challenged. They'll tell you in certain classes they get held back to the "rest of the pack" because there's not enough people or resources for them, or the TYPE of resourses they need at their level.
Fly Swat

Piqua, OH

#23325 Feb 3, 2013
SPIN SPIN wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep the spin going. 2000+ children left behind? You want these same teachers to carry a gun and save your child by risking their lives? What a crazy loon you are. You want everything but you don't want to pay for it and you don't want it any way but yours. You spew arm the teachers to force them to protect your children - but who is going to protect the teachers from you and your cronies???
such pesky little flies leaving nasty droppings all over this blog. swat,swat.
Question

Piqua, OH

#23326 Feb 3, 2013
you are kidding wrote:
<quoted text>
levy "ladies" ? Babb, Carlisle, Jobe ?....you must have low standards..they are not ladies, but B*****S.
So What's In a Name? Babb, Carlisle, Jobe are all badd for boro kids, just the same as their full band of community bullies led by Springboro board of education member, Don Miller, protesting crudely and rudely against our children's best interest.
Question

Piqua, OH

#23327 Feb 3, 2013
Question worth repeating, again and again....
Worth Repeating wrote:
<quoted text>
hey don, will you please concede to the people's will and admit that your Babb for Boro November 2011 campaign failed; and will you please stop wasting taxpayers time and money with your continued protests against a free election;
Will you please resign your status quo leadership position of just "sitting" on the board, year after year, protesting all changes for the good of all our students;
offering nothing in service to our schools and community except your time and money wasting protests against doing what's right; and offering only your whines and longings for keeping our kids left behind, just like during the long ago forgotten glory days of the good ole boys BOE pro-union rule in our schools and community.
Will you step up to honor the voter's trust in you as a board representative to finally do the right thing?
Will you please resign and join our former "has been a BOE president" as one who simply does not agree with the new direction of our BOE majority; in whom our school district voters have placed our trust to assure every child in our community a quality education, while living within our community financial resources.
not working

Springboro, OH

#23328 Feb 3, 2013
Fly Swat wrote:
<quoted text>
such pesky little flies leaving nasty droppings all over this blog. swat,swat.
Our fly swatter is back? Get a life and learn how to articulate and argument instead of use the things you learned in union school. Dirty tricks are not working for you.
Dish

Springboro, OH

#23329 Feb 3, 2013
Boro Backer wrote:
<quoted text>
I am not close to the Carlisle family, but I do have children the same age as her children, and what you posted about her family could not be further from the truth. Not only was her son not kicked off of the cross country team, he was one of their better runners this season and has never been suspended. Her children are smart, polite, well-rounded, and well-mannered and are the kind of children that both teachers and coaches enjoy having in their classroom or on their team. I should know as my husband has coached her son in the past. To wrongly disparage her family as you have done is a disgrace and is yet another example of why I take any of the "facts" as presented by posters such as yourself with a grain of salt.
Character attacks are painful. Try to stop doing it Tiffy. You have called Dr. Kohls many things in public, all untrue. Are you going to apologize to her? I doubt it. You can dish it but you can't take it. Mentioning kids in an argument is wrong, anywhere. So stop doing it Tiffnay.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23330 Feb 3, 2013
Let me know when anyone wants to see the 2012 report card?

While all of these little weasel attacks on one another seem to be great fun for none and all, they fail to address the systemic issues we have within our educational system that allows us to pass on 2000 plus students a year who simply aren't getting the education the taxpayer's are funding.

Perhaps some of the union members have solutions to these problems that fit within the constraints of our physical, fiscal, and cultural issues.
Fly Swat

Piqua, OH

#23331 Feb 3, 2013
not working wrote:
<quoted text>
Our fly swatter is back? Get a life and learn how to articulate and argument instead of use the things you learned in union school. Dirty tricks are not working for you.
Swat, Swat.
Tiffany

Springboro, OH

#23332 Feb 4, 2013
Long ago, I pledged to never post here again. I have no interest in topix and the hatred that is so prevalent here. But I have been made aware of a post about my children, and I feel the need to respond to it directly. You can say whatever you want about me, post whatever lies you want about who and what I am, or make up lies about what I say, and I could really care less. But to post outright lies about my kids is not OK. It is disgusting. Nothing you said was even close to the truth. My kids work very hard, and get excellent grades. My son has never been suspended, and he was not kicked off the XC team, or any team, for that matter. You are a COWARD to start such horrible rumors. Hiding behind an anonymous name to say such terrible things is cowardly.

I am not a "union activist". And I am not a "bully". I am a mom who cares about her kids more than anything. I am passionate about my kids, Springboro schools, and my community. I will continue to speak out when I am concerned with decisions being made. This is my right as a community member. But I will always do it with confidence, not hiding behind a fake name.
reality

Girard, OH

#23333 Feb 4, 2013
Tiffany wrote:
Long ago, I pledged to never post here again. I have no interest in topix and the hatred that is so prevalent here. But I have been made aware of a post about my children, and I feel the need to respond to it directly. You can say whatever you want about me, post whatever lies you want about who and what I am, or make up lies about what I say, and I could really care less. But to post outright lies about my kids is not OK. It is disgusting. Nothing you said was even close to the truth. My kids work very hard, and get excellent grades. My son has never been suspended, and he was not kicked off the XC team, or any team, for that matter. You are a COWARD to start such horrible rumors. Hiding behind an anonymous name to say such terrible things is cowardly.
I am not a "union activist". And I am not a "bully". I am a mom who cares about her kids more than anything. I am passionate about my kids, Springboro schools, and my community. I will continue to speak out when I am concerned with decisions being made. This is my right as a community member. But I will always do it with confidence, not hiding behind a fake name.
Tiff, It's good to have you back. You are 100% correct in one regard. No one in their right mind takes down someone else's children as part of an overall ad hominem attack on one of their parents.

Regarding your perception of "bully" and /or "union activist", I'm quite confident I can speak for the majority of Springboro when I state that you most certainly are in need of a check-up from the neck-up.
Just Say No

Piqua, OH

#23334 Feb 4, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
This is rich, right out of Stalin's Young Pioneer's teaching guide. Long live the proletariat!
(tongue in cheek sarcasm for those with a defective sense of humor)
http://www.radicalmath.org/
Just Say No to OEA Indoctrinaton
Our priority should be (for the best education for all children) taking the politics out of our children's classrooms. Teaching unionism (for self-interest union activists' empowerment) is a waste of our school tax dollars; and teaching unionism wastes our children's time; wastefully indoctrinating our children's minds that they should "grow up and vote for revenge" does not fit within our community/city schools mission statement.

"The future of the nation is on the shoulders of teachers and how they teach kids; the future of the world is in the classroom where the teachers are. And if we have any chance to guarantee a positive bridge to the 21st century, it is how we educate the children in the classrooms today." - Richard Reginald Green
First Things First

Piqua, OH

#23335 Feb 4, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
The first thing we need to do is disabuse ourselves of the notion that we are the best thing since sliced bread. We have some deep systemic issues that need to be dealt with in this community in regards to educating our children.
1) We need to realistically evaluate where our deficiencies exist, both inside and outside the classroom. Education is not a drop your child off for 7 hours and they return educated. It involves the parents backing up and supporting the teachers at home, Requiring and helping with homework to make sure it is done. Not all parents are created equal, so we need to make sure that the parents have the resources to learn the material being taught so they can help the children learn. There seems to be a need for a study island for parents who wish to help their children but have been away from school for many years.
2) Just like there are no two children who are alike in their abilities, we need to recognize that teachers are much the same. Not all teachers are created equal, some are excellent, some are good, some are mediocre, and some are bad. Nodding our head at the union mantra that all teachers are excellent is a bit too Animal Farm for me. Let us begin to call a spade a spade and utilize our resources in house to bring those less talented up to speed or show them the door. The ones paying the price for mediocre or less ability are the very ones we are here for, the children.
3) Raising the standards by which we choose to operate and then enforcing those standards will pay huge dividends for all involved, from administrators, to teachers, to parents, to children, to taxpayers. We are not condemned to troll the base standards that the state employs, we are perfectly free to aim so much higher.
4) Real achievement that can be measured and quantified. While some may call that teaching to the test, I call that basic knowledge required to function productively in this society. Feasting on semantics to cover up failure is no substitute for actual learning and academic achievement. Rote learning of your math tables may seem boring, but the results are undeniable. Build self esteem with actual accomplishment, not with a false Honor Society where the top 70% of your class is recognized as deserving that accolade.
5) Recognize that not all children learn in the same environment and realize that other choices may be necessary. Some may thrive under a more rigorous discipline setting, while different children wilt under the same authority. Build programs that allow parents the choice of where their child should attempt to succeed.
6) We are not fated to repeat the past in hopes of gaining an alternate ending. We are free to reinvent the system, let us grasp this opportunity and move both our school district and our children forward now.
7) Speak up against the status quo and demand true excellence throughout the school district. Only the vox populi can stem this tide of mediocrity.
First thing our school district needs is an outside-the-union professional group hired to explore "Why Springboro Should Consider a Conversion School."
First Things First

Piqua, OH

#23336 Feb 4, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
The first thing we need to do is disabuse ourselves of the notion that we are the best thing since sliced bread. We have some deep systemic issues that need to be dealt with in this community in regards to educating our children.
1) We need to realistically evaluate where our deficiencies exist, both inside and outside the classroom. Education is not a drop your child off for 7 hours and they return educated. It involves the parents backing up and supporting the teachers at home, Requiring and helping with homework to make sure it is done. Not all parents are created equal, so we need to make sure that the parents have the resources to learn the material being taught so they can help the children learn. There seems to be a need for a study island for parents who wish to help their children but have been away from school for many years.
2) Just like there are no two children who are alike in their abilities, we need to recognize that teachers are much the same. Not all teachers are created equal, some are excellent, some are good, some are mediocre, and some are bad. Nodding our head at the union mantra that all teachers are excellent is a bit too Animal Farm for me. Let us begin to call a spade a spade and utilize our resources in house to bring those less talented up to speed or show them the door. The ones paying the price for mediocre or less ability are the very ones we are here for, the children.
3) Raising the standards by which we choose to operate and then enforcing those standards will pay huge dividends for all involved, from administrators, to teachers, to parents, to children, to taxpayers. We are not condemned to troll the base standards that the state employs, we are perfectly free to aim so much higher.
4) Real achievement that can be measured and quantified. While some may call that teaching to the test, I call that basic knowledge required to function productively in this society. Feasting on semantics to cover up failure is no substitute for actual learning and academic achievement. Rote learning of your math tables may seem boring, but the results are undeniable. Build self esteem with actual accomplishment, not with a false Honor Society where the top 70% of your class is recognized as deserving that accolade.
5) Recognize that not all children learn in the same environment and realize that other choices may be necessary. Some may thrive under a more rigorous discipline setting, while different children wilt under the same authority. Build programs that allow parents the choice of where their child should attempt to succeed.
6) We are not fated to repeat the past in hopes of gaining an alternate ending. We are free to reinvent the system, let us grasp this opportunity and move both our school district and our children forward now.
7) Speak up against the status quo and demand true excellence throughout the school district. Only the vox populi can stem this tide of mediocrity.
Genius without Education is like Silver in the Mine.
-Benjamin Franklin
First Things First

Piqua, OH

#23337 Feb 4, 2013
We need to stop focusing on the status quo no-leadership of "just sitting" board member Don Miller, and his failed tunnel vision Babb for Boro union activists campaign; and we need to bring the conversation on this blog back to common sense in our classrooms, and higher inspiration for our children's future, projected by the broader vision of our children first budgeting school board members. for "our children's future."
In The News

Piqua, OH

#23338 Feb 4, 2013
-from Springboro Sun news article, January 10, 2013.

Why consider a conversion school?


JIM RIGANO
Springboro Board of Education member

The Springboro School Board is examining the opportunity of re-opening the Jonathan Wright building as a Conversion School.
A Conversion School is Ohio's term for a charter school sponsored by a public school.The Springboro School board and the Warren County Educational Service Center are the only entities that can sponsor a Conversion School in the Springboro School District. A Conversion School is not a private school. Its existence and funding comes from the public school system.
So why do it? We have an excellent school system already.
Let's answer that with some questions. Why do we allow Springboro HS students to attend the Warren County Career Center? Why do we suggest some kids attend the Warren County Alternative school? Why do Miamisburg and West Carrollton School Districts sponsor conversion schools?
The answer in each case is those schools offer either a different curriculum or a different environment than the traditional public school, and the parents believe the alternative is better for their child. So even in an excellent school district like Springboro, some students and parents are looking for alternatives. One size doesn't fit all.
What might this school offer? That's a matter for an extended discussion with the community. One possibility that intrigues me is to create a classical education program as some private schools offer. Another idea might be to move away from traditional grade levels and promote children to the next level once they have mastered the skill or subject. After all, kids don't all learn and develop at the same pace. There are many other possibilities and considerations.
Would a Springboro conversion school drain resources and put our excellent system at risk? We simply can't allow that to happen. The conversion school concept only works if 1) it is cost neutral, 2) it meets a need that can't be better addressed by a change in the traditional school, and 3) it does no harm to our already outstanding schools.
Can it be done? At this point we don't know. Initial indications are that it may be financially feasible, but many questions remain. Perhaps Springboro Schools will be able to offer another alternative for students and parents without increasing taxes. We need a thorough evaluation and that would be the purpose for establishing a committee and hiring a consultant if the board is inclined to do that. We won't know until somebody looks at it, and I believe it is worth a look!
I've heard the rumors about shutting down half of the high school curriculum to fund the conversion school and allegations that a board member might financially benefit from a conversion school. These are nonsense. There is a big state and national debate around charter schools and school choice. However, the decision about this school is a local one and our focus needs to be on our schools, community, and our kids. We can't be afraid to investigate a change that could potentially benefit many students and parents.

Get Real

Piqua, OH

#23339 Feb 4, 2013
reality wrote:
<quoted text>
Tiff, It's good to have you back. You are 100% correct in one regard. No one in their right mind takes down someone else's children as part of an overall ad hominem attack on one of their parents.
Regarding your perception of "bully" and /or "union activist", I'm quite confident I can speak for the majority of Springboro when I state that you most certainly are in need of a check-up from the neck-up.
You don't speak for me!

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