Forcing kids to say the Pledge of Allegiance is bullying and pointless

Nov 8, 2013 | Posted by: roboblogger | Full story: Salon

Imagine a place where young children are forced every day to declare their nationalism.

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Remnant 143999

Rio Rancho, NM

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#1
Nov 9, 2013
 

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It's allways the children of jw's that have to suffer for their parents.My father in law, who was an elder took me to one of his union meetings that he presided over. Well quess who lead the pledge of allgiance,he made me promise never to tell anyone what he did.

Since: Jan 09

The lost city of Shangri La

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#2
Nov 9, 2013
 

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Compromising to evil and sacrificing your principles for the sake of convenience is ALWAYS the easier path.

But holding to one's principles even in the face of suffering and opposition, is much harder.

Remnant asks us judge the morality of the actions of men based only on the positive/negative reactions of those around them. But I call that a perverted form of morality.

And yes, I agree that you father acted spinelessly and without principle. For that he should be ashamed. But real JW's who do not compromise in such situations have nothing to be ashamed of.
Remnant 143999

Rio Rancho, NM

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#3
Nov 10, 2013
 
I've researched the history of the US pledge of allegiance,what a story! The most holy beloved /wtbts has never had an article on the history of the pledge.Why not?

Since: Jun 13

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#4
Nov 10, 2013
 
Remnant 143999 wrote:
I've researched the history of the US pledge of allegiance,what a story! The most holy beloved /wtbts has never had an article on the history of the pledge.Why not?
Even if they did, they would take it all out of context to support their view that it is a paganistic demonic act. And wouldn't be very truthful about it, they can't even be truthful about their own history.

“New one man.”

Since: Jan 11

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#5
Nov 10, 2013
 

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Forcing a child to say the pledge is no different than coercing them to bind themselves to a religion when they do not know what it will mean if they ever realize they would not have done it as an adult.
No child should be forced to pledge and no child should be coerced into giving himself to a religion.
They should be adults for both.
Then they know their minds.
hMMMMMM

Aurora, IL

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#6
Nov 10, 2013
 
Forcing children NOT to say the Pledge of Allegiance is child abuse, period.

When I see those nasty cartoons on the internet about children who do not pledge, I explain the abuse Jehovah's Witness children endure, that they have no choice to salute if they want to.
Most people do not understand this.
Remnant 143999

Rio Rancho, NM

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#7
Nov 11, 2013
 
Some children are not US citizens,and will never be US citizens, so why should they pledge alegiance. Brain washing is nothing new. Experts will always tell you the younger one can start the brainwashing the more successful it becomes. Just ask the most holy beloved idol/wtbts how it works?

Since: Jan 09

The lost city of Shangri La

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#8
Nov 12, 2013
 

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MixedMedia wrote:
Forcing a child to say the pledge is no different than coercing them to bind themselves to a religion when they do not know what it will mean if they ever realize they would not have done it as an adult.
No child should be forced to pledge and no child should be coerced into giving himself to a religion.
They should be adults for both.
Then they know their minds.
While true that all people have certain natural and inalienable, rights, children do not have the rational nor physical capacity to exercise those rights. That only comes with time and experience. Parents hold the personal rights of the child 'in trust' until such time that the child is able to rationally exercise those rights for itself. Therefore as a property rights issue, I see no problem with parents educating their children as they see fit.

Claiming that parents 'have no right' to educate their children simply because you don't agree with everything the parents are teaching said children, is rather dangerous. In essence, you are claiming that children ought to be taught according to YOUR standards and YOUR opinions. And from there it is only a small leap from "ought to be taught this way" to "shall be taught this way," i.e. the introduction of force and the violation of property rights, which is what the teacher in Florida did.

On that same note, what the teacher in Florida did is wrong not because she violated the rights of the child, but because she violated the rights of the parents (who held the rights of the child in trust) and interfered with their parental authority. The teacher ventured into areas of the child's education that she was never granted permission to venture into.
Tao itness

United States

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#9
Nov 12, 2013
 
We should get angry when we see people being forced to do something against their will, especially children! The sad thing is the watchtower defenders on here that are appalled by this have no problem with their religious leaders bullying there followers and themselves through psychological, emotional and spiritual blackmail through their teachings and the unscriptural practice of shunning.

Since: Jun 13

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#10
Nov 12, 2013
 
Well at least jw parents don't force their children to refuse blood transfusions.

Since: Jan 09

The lost city of Shangri La

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#11
Nov 12, 2013
 

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Tao itness wrote:
We should get angry when we see people being forced to do something against their will, especially children!
What a ridiculous statement. Children are forced to do things they don't want to do all the time.

going to bed
eating vegetables
going to school
picking up messes
cleaning up before dinner
doing chores
etc.

The parents have the natural right to control the actions and upbringing of their children, even if the children don't like it, because the parents hold the rights of their children in trust and the children can't make rational decisions on their own yet.

What Tao itness advocates for is spoiled brats that control their parents instead of the other way around.

“New one man.”

Since: Jan 11

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#12
Nov 12, 2013
 
Tears of Oberon wrote:
<quoted text>
While true that all people have certain natural and inalienable, rights, children do not have the rational nor physical capacity to exercise those rights. That only comes with time and experience. Parents hold the personal rights of the child 'in trust' until such time that the child is able to rationally exercise those rights for itself. Therefore as a property rights issue, I see no problem with parents educating their children as they see fit.
Claiming that parents 'have no right' to educate their children simply because you don't agree with everything the parents are teaching said children, is rather dangerous. In essence, you are claiming that children ought to be taught according to YOUR standards and YOUR opinions. And from there it is only a small leap from "ought to be taught this way" to "shall be taught this way," i.e. the introduction of force and the violation of property rights, which is what the teacher in Florida did.
On that same note, what the teacher in Florida did is wrong not because she violated the rights of the child, but because she violated the rights of the parents (who held the rights of the child in trust) and interfered with their parental authority. The teacher ventured into areas of the child's education that she was never granted permission to venture into.
Are you nuts? I didn't say any of what you just said I did.

No the parents can educate their children any way they want. My objection is when they are coerced into being baptized into something they do not truly understand until they are mature. At which time, they may find they do not want to be bound to the religion and leave and are subsequently shunned to extreme. THAT IS THE PROBLEM. Teach them what you will, but don't punish them because they did not know what they were doing. If you baptize a child, regardless how much that child thinks they know what they are doing, they do not. But you will punish them for it anyway.

Forcing a child to pledge to the flag isn't much different, with the exception of one huge thing, no one is going to try to ruin their lives if they decide as an adult they don't want to.

And Teary, if you don't understand a post, just say so, don't add a bunch of stuff the poster didn't say or elude to.
Remnant 143999

Rio Rancho, NM

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#13
Nov 12, 2013
 
Not to mention parents allowing their children to ride school buses to and from home.
1.) no seatbelts.
2.) bullying on the bus.
3.) bus drivers on presciption drugs.
4.) bus drivers with little or no training.
5.) bus drivers with their eyes of the road 50% of
the time.
Most parents really don't care what happens to their children when they leave them under the control of unqualified school staff.
Remnant 143999

Rio Rancho, NM

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#14
Nov 12, 2013
 
Baptism is a contract between the child and the most holy beloved idol/wtbts. If that child is under age,the contract is null a void ,and the parent should be prosecuted for child abuse!
Dr SOS

Hopewell Junction, NY

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#15
Nov 13, 2013
 
Tears of Oberon wrote:
<quoted text>
What a ridiculous statement. Children are forced to do things they don't want to do all the time.
going to bed
eating vegetables
going to school
picking up messes
cleaning up before dinner
doing chores
etc.
The parents have the natural right to control the actions and upbringing of their children, even if the children don't like it, because the parents hold the rights of their children in trust and the children can't make rational decisions on their own yet.
What Tao itness advocates for is spoiled brats that control their parents instead of the other way around.
You human piece of feces,

PARENTS FORCING THEIR KIDS TO SALUTE THE FLAG AT SCHOOL USING FEAR TO MANIPULATE THEM IS DIFFERENT THAN DISCIPLINE AT HOME.

EVERYTHING YOU MENTIONED IS DISCIPLINE CONCERNING MATTERS AT HOME WHERE SALUTING THE FLAG OR LACK OF IS PUBLIC WITH POSSIBLE RIDICULE FROM OTHERS REGARDING IT.

APPLES AND ORANGES.

TRY AGAIN.
Dr SOS

Hopewell Junction, NY

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#16
Nov 13, 2013
 
The CHILD HAS THE DETERMINATION WHETHER OR NOT THEY WANT TO BE RIDICULED OR HARASSED BY OTHERS MAKING THEIR LIFE IN SCHOOL HARDER THAN IT ALREADY IS,

THE PARENTS NOR THE ELDERS HAVE NO AUTHORITY IN MAKING A CHILD'S LIFE HARDER TO DEAL WITH WHILE THEY ATTEND SCHOOL.

AND NO ONE CARES ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT YOU THINK IT IS BIBLICAL EITHER.

THE CHILD WILL COME TO THE DETERMINATION WHETHER THEY WANT TO HAVE A HARDER SCHOOL LIFE OR NOT.

JUST LIKE YOU ALLOW CHILDREN THAT ARE 12 TO BE BAPTIZED AND CLAIM THAT IT IS ACCORDING TO THEIR "own will".

AS FAR AS THE TEACHER GOES HE WAS WRONG AND SHOULD BE IMMEDIATELY FIRED.
Dr SOS

Hopewell Junction, NY

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#17
Nov 13, 2013
 
Remnant 143999 wrote:
Baptism is a contract between the child and the most holy beloved idol/wtbts. If that child is under age,the contract is null a void ,and the parent should be prosecuted for child abuse!
Here is a simple way to solve it,

JUST LET THEM FOLLOW JESUS'S EXAMPLE AND START BAPTISM AT 30 YEARS OLD.

WE ALL KNOW THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN BECAUSE THEN FEW WOULD GET BAPTIZED AND THE WTS WIOULD HAVE VERY LITTLE TO NO CONTROL ON ANYONE.
El Cacique

New York, NY

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#18
Nov 13, 2013
 

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Dr SOS wrote:
<quoted text>Here is a simple way to solve it,
JUST LET THEM FOLLOW JESUS'S EXAMPLE AND START BAPTISM AT 30 YEARS OLD.
WE ALL KNOW THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN BECAUSE THEN FEW WOULD GET BAPTIZED AND THE WTS WIOULD HAVE VERY LITTLE TO NO CONTROL ON ANYONE.
What's up bro,

Where the hell you been?....I hope all is well.

Good to see you back.
Mental Case

Goshen, NY

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#19
Nov 13, 2013
 

The majority of the global warming deniers do so from religious conviction. Religious followers can't trust anything that casts even a shadow of doubt on their beliefs. To do so is blasphemy and severely punished Their infallible book is very clear on that. Science is seen as an enemy of faith not to be trusted. Given that the core of these religions is the destruction of the planet so that they can be saved to another perfect place with a perfect life dims our future considerably Religion gets too much undeserved respect and ought to be held responsible for the damage it does.
Dr SOS

Hopewell Junction, NY

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#20
Nov 13, 2013
 
El Cacique wrote:
<quoted text> What's up bro,
Where the hell you been?....I hope all is well.
Good to see you back.
Hello I AM DOING WELL,

DOCTOR SOS HAS SOME SICKNESSES TO CURE!

BWHAHHAHAhAHHhhHHhhHhHhHhHhahh ahaha!!!!!!!!!!

Enjoy the show.

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