Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

Feb 5, 2008 Full story: Dayton Daily News 31,772

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Compromise

Columbus, OH

#24379 Apr 22, 2013
Interesting wrote:
<quoted text>
Gimme one. Who has gotten a pay cut in Govt? Just one! I can show you most of Springboro that has done their jobs with less pay and benefits in the last 5 years
Every civilian employee at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. Payed attention to the news lately? Furlough ring a bell?
Numbers off again

Milford, OH

#24380 Apr 22, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Tell us again who is underpaid working 2/3 a normal full time schedule.
The $30/hour fresh out of college teacher?
The $44/hour 10 year vet?
The $55/hour veteran looking to retirement after 25 years?
The $67/hour long time veteran?
Sometimes your pay increases out run your productivity to the program.
I can't wait until you put factual numbers up there. Fresh out of college teachers make 24 an hour and those that came into Springboro 5 years ago are still at 24 an hour. Teachers can't retire after 25 years either by the way.
Just one

Springboro, OH

#24381 Apr 22, 2013
Numbers off again wrote:
<quoted text>
I can't wait until you put factual numbers up there. Fresh out of college teachers make 24 an hour and those that came into Springboro 5 years ago are still at 24 an hour. Teachers can't retire after 25 years either by the way.
See this is why the district has a transparency project so you can look it up. This 5 yr freeze is one of those school speak tricks. steps are raises so you need to stop telling untruths. See for yourself. Go to the project see if any teacher stayed the same for 5 years. Name one.
takers

Springboro, OH

#24382 Apr 22, 2013
Compromise wrote:
<quoted text>
So private sector employers are the only ones who pay taxes huh? Government employees are not immunned to these cuts. Pay freezes and pay reductions happen there too.
No you don't. you take from the tax payer pools and give a little back. You really do not contribute to it you take and give a little back. It is simple. If you get your water from a well that you never contribute to and maybe pour a little back into the well every time you take you are still a taker from the well and not a contributor. You may not want to give a little back but you are forced and the people filling the well are forced to fill it.
takers

Springboro, OH

#24383 Apr 22, 2013
Compromise wrote:
<quoted text>
Every civilian employee at Wright Patterson Air Force Base. Payed attention to the news lately? Furlough ring a bell?
This means they get a day off without pay they don't work for free do they. Look at private sector. Many if not most are working more days with less pay there is a difference duh. Seen the news lately?

Furlough is not a cut in pay it is a reduction in their contracted days of work. Less pay for the less days not at all the same as a cut in pay. Name one that has a cut in pay and worked the same # of days, name one.
Public masters

Springboro, OH

#24384 Apr 22, 2013
Compromise wrote:
<quoted text>
An you don't think that BOEs have the same mentality towards the teachers of their respective districts? What the State needs to do is get off their you know what's and fix the way public schools are funded in the state of Ohio. Put as much effort into getting them to change this policy as you do attacking the teachers and researching people talking about your friends on the Internet and see if something happens.
Get the State to just give us more money and that will fix it all?

How much would be enough for you?$20,000 per pupil? 100% higher pay than the private sector? make everyone pay until they starve?
Make everyone bow in your presence?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24386 Apr 22, 2013
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0_emPjNYG-pL...

Try this if you wish to see the latest on the contract negotiations and what the union is asking for in the union proposal. A summation is provided for the applicable items and are quite revealing in how the requests are interpreted.

Some of the union requests are put in so they have stuff to toss and then claim they are "making" millions of dollars in sacrifices. Nonsense.

Read it for yourself and then you decide
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24387 Apr 22, 2013
It took me three weeks of asking to get the latest document. When public money is involved the public has a right and a duty to know how its resources are being utilized.

While the OCR code is quite strict on the privacy of the meetings, meaning the public is not invited to observe or listen to the procedures, the participants have no such duty to remain silent about the goings on once they leave the room. Participants are free to remain silent or become as loquacious as they deem in public.

Transparency keeps the stupidity to a minimum.
Compromise

Milford, OH

#24388 Apr 22, 2013
Just one wrote:
<quoted text>
See this is why the district has a transparency project so you can look it up. This 5 yr freeze is one of those school speak tricks. steps are raises so you need to stop telling untruths. See for yourself. Go to the project see if any teacher stayed the same for 5 years. Name one.
No one has ever said steps aren't raises. Now, they are not 7,000 to 10,000 raises that you all like to say they are but no one has ever said they are not raises. They are 1600 dollars according to the contract. 1600/26=61 dollars a paycheck. Huge pay raises for individual teachers. The only way a teacher got a step increase was if they earned a higher degree. Since 2007-2008 all steps have been frozen, no raises unless said teacher earned a degree. I'm not gonna name the person on this blog but my 8th grade son's teacher has been in this district for 4 years and she has not received 1 pay raise the entire four years. So there, I "named" one for you!
Genius

Dayton, OH

#24389 Apr 22, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
Genius, it would be a 22 fold increase in achievement from where they are now.
9 kids out of 1023 scored a grade better than a C on the OAA test in 8th grade math. That means they had 9/10 of 1% score better than a C on the OAA test in 8th grade math.
A 22 fold increase would mean that another 195 kids got the education their taxpayers were funding.
Now Genius, what do we do with a failing system that is not providing the education the taxpayers are funding in the city of Springboro?
In Dayton, we have virtually no say in how they operate.
In Springboro, we do have a voice that can cry out for us to deliver an actual education to the 2000 plus children who are now not receiving the one the taxpayers have funded.
We can and should demand better of a system that pays our teachers $30-$66/hour. The results we saw in 2012 are not uncommon.
2012 80% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
2011 79% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
2010 80% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
This is a systemic problem that cheats all children regardless of race, creed, color, or place of national origin.
Ms. Cook has seen these results repeated during her tenure as Principal at the Junior HIgh, how long can we tolerate this lack of actual learning and leadership?
Here we have three straight years of documented failure of 4 out of 5 children in Math. Go back to 2008 and you will see the same level of achievement.
http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages...
Would you have us believe all of these children are not very bright in Math, our teachers are incompetent, our parents do not care, our children are not good test takers, or the test is too hard,?
The truth is the Emperor has no clothes.
The system and methods we are using now do not work. If they did, the children would pass the test with real scores that reflect actual learning.
These test are not MIT tough entrance exams, they are pretty basic and elemental. They even let you use calculators and give you the formulas you need.
What is the definition of insanity?
Doing the same thing the same way over and over and expecting different results each time.
Our system is insane and we cannot waste another year of our children's education on repeating the same program.
Keep tip toeing around the answer but why would 20% be "sterling" for Dayton children. All children should be held to the same standards. Again, why is 20% "sterling" for Dayton children and not Springboro. Remember those are your words. If you are concerned about public education, maybe you should get involved in Dayton public schools. I do not care if that is an increase or not why would that be "sterling."
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#24390 Apr 23, 2013
Genius wrote:
<quoted text>
Keep tip toeing around the answer but why would 20% be "sterling" for Dayton children. All children should be held to the same standards. Again, why is 20% "sterling" for Dayton children and not Springboro. Remember those are your words. If you are concerned about public education, maybe you should get involved in Dayton public schools. I do not care if that is an increase or not why would that be "sterling."
Just Watching wrote:
Genius, it would be a 22 fold increase in achievement from where they are now.

9 kids out of 1023 scored a grade better than a C on the OAA test in 8th grade math. That means they had 9/10 of 1% score better than a C on the OAA test in 8th grade math.

A 22 fold increase would mean that another 195 kids got the education their taxpayers were funding.

Now Genius, what do we do with a failing system that is not providing the education the taxpayers are funding in the city of Springboro?

In Dayton, we have virtually no say in how they operate.

In Springboro, we do have a voice that can cry out for us to deliver an actual education to the 2000 plus children who are now not receiving the one the taxpayers have funded.

We can and should demand better of a system that pays our teachers $30-$66/hour. The results we saw in 2012 are not uncommon.

2012 80% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
2011 79% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test
2010 80% scored 63% or less on the 8th grade OAA Math test

This is a systemic problem that cheats all children regardless of race, creed, color, or place of national origin.

Ms. Cook has seen these results repeated during her tenure as Principal at the Junior HIgh, how long can we tolerate this lack of actual learning and leadership?

Here we have three straight years of documented failure of 4 out of 5 children in Math. Go back to 2008 and you will see the same level of achievement.
http://www.ode.state.oh.us/GD/Templates/Pages ...

Would you have us believe all of these children are not very bright in Math, our teachers are incompetent, our parents do not care, our children are not good test takers, or the test is too hard,?

The truth is the Emperor has no clothes.

The system and methods we are using now do not work. If they did, the children would pass the test with real scores that reflect actual learning.

These test are not MIT tough entrance exams, they are pretty basic and elemental. They even let you use calculators and give you the formulas you need.

What is the definition of insanity?

Doing the same thing the same way over and over and expecting different results each time.

Our system is insane and we cannot waste another year of our children's education on repeating the same program.
pay

Springboro, OH

#24391 Apr 23, 2013
Compromise wrote:
<quoted text>
No one has ever said steps aren't raises. Now, they are not 7,000 to 10,000 raises that you all like to say they are but no one has ever said they are not raises. They are 1600 dollars according to the contract. 1600/26=61 dollars a paycheck. Huge pay raises for individual teachers. The only way a teacher got a step increase was if they earned a higher degree. Since 2007-2008 all steps have been frozen, no raises unless said teacher earned a degree. I'm not gonna name the person on this blog but my 8th grade son's teacher has been in this district for 4 years and she has not received 1 pay raise the entire four years. So there, I "named" one for you!
Yes, please go to the "Transparency Project" and look for yourself. Plenty of teachers have not received raises for 3 years. Some 4. No "step" raises or otherwise. And you need to look at the entire document. It isn't very easy to follow. You have to scroll all the way down to the bottom to match all the teachers with their pay in FY12 and FY13. It is a little confusing to see a full snapshot of 4-5 years - probably done intentially by the BOE I would imagine....
Really

Piqua, OH

#24392 Apr 23, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
https://docs.google.com/file/d /0B0_emPjNYG-pLXB5N1JtdnRaQmc/ edit?usp=sharing
Try this if you wish to see the latest on the contract negotiations and what the union is asking for in the union proposal. A summation is provided for the applicable items and are quite revealing in how the requests are interpreted.
Some of the union requests are put in so they have stuff to toss and then claim they are "making" millions of dollars in sacrifices. Nonsense.
Read it for yourself and then you decide
Please, full disclosure on who put that document together - most everything the teachers ask for is given the response "Less funds available for other purposes." Well duh let's not buy books or computers or ??? either then we'll have more funds available for other purposes.

Why don't you post an accurate response to the district's proposal. What about their plan to put together a "committee" to review compensation but then are not required to follow the recommendations from the committee. That means, the board can keep anyone's salary the same for an extended period of time and oh by the way, they will also only give a set amount to their medical insurance so if that goes up every year, the teacher's take home pay will get reduced that much every year as well.
Question

Lebanon, OH

#24393 Apr 23, 2013
pay wrote:
<quoted text>
Yes, please go to the "Transparency Project" and look for yourself. Plenty of teachers have not received raises for 3 years. Some 4. No "step" raises or otherwise. And you need to look at the entire document. It isn't very easy to follow. You have to scroll all the way down to the bottom to match all the teachers with their pay in FY12 and FY13. It is a little confusing to see a full snapshot of 4-5 years - probably done intentially by the BOE I would imagine....
Define with numbers what "plenty" means.

What percentage has pay risen since 2008?
pay

Springboro, OH

#24394 Apr 23, 2013
Question wrote:
<quoted text>
Define with numbers what "plenty" means.
What percentage has pay risen since 2008?
I cannot tell you now....for some reason, the link to all the teachers' pay is not on the site anymore that I can find. Hmmm, wonder why? Transparency please!!!!! Where did it go?
Observer

Lebanon, OH

#24395 Apr 23, 2013
Really wrote:
<quoted text>
Please, full disclosure on who put that document together - most everything the teachers ask for is given the response "Less funds available for other purposes." Well duh let's not buy books or computers or ??? either then we'll have more funds available for other purposes.
Why don't you post an accurate response to the district's proposal. What about their plan to put together a "committee" to review compensation but then are not required to follow the recommendations from the committee. That means, the board can keep anyone's salary the same for an extended period of time and oh by the way, they will also only give a set amount to their medical insurance so if that goes up every year, the teacher's take home pay will get reduced that much every year as well.
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0_emPjNYG-pL...

I read the proposals and we are not talking about a couple bucks her but millions! I think it is very correct it would radically reduce funds available for other purposes. We only have so much money in the bank and taking millions more for teachers is crazy. Sorry guys but you aren't underpaid.
pay

Springboro, OH

#24396 Apr 23, 2013
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0_emPjNYG-pL...
I read the proposals and we are not talking about a couple bucks her but millions! I think it is very correct it would radically reduce funds available for other purposes. We only have so much money in the bank and taking millions more for teachers is crazy. Sorry guys but you aren't underpaid.
Its called a starting point. So is the BOE's proposal. Thats why everyone should let them negotiate first before we say the sky is falling.
Question

Lebanon, OH

#24398 Apr 23, 2013
pay wrote:
<quoted text>
Its called a starting point. So is the BOE's proposal. Thats why everyone should let them negotiate first before we say the sky is falling.
Why do they need an increase in everything from days off to more money to more meetings?$30-$70 an hour seems like they should be glad they got what they got and keep it.
pay

Springboro, OH

#24399 Apr 23, 2013
Question wrote:
<quoted text>
Why do they need an increase in everything from days off to more money to more meetings?$30-$70 an hour seems like they should be glad they got what they got and keep it.
So when your anniversary comes up at work, don't you hope you get a raise? Of course they are going to ask for that stuff. the answer may be "no" and they may say "ok". Obviously, you have never been a part of a negotiation.
work for a living

Lebanon, OH

#24400 Apr 23, 2013
pay wrote:
<quoted text>
So when your anniversary comes up at work, don't you hope you get a raise? Of course they are going to ask for that stuff. the answer may be "no" and they may say "ok". Obviously, you have never been a part of a negotiation.
I love the way you guys think you deserve whatever, you don't appreciate anything. Go teach in Dayton they pay more may be you will be happy then. I wish my company had more money for raises, but I work more for less because if we don't we are out of business and I am unemployed. What I have isn't the best but it beats trying to find a job in this economy.

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