Our recommendation: Springboro voters...

Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 32027 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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common core is rotten

Cleveland, OH

#23265 Jan 31, 2013
Now What wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm all for doing what's right for the students and trying to come up with specific ideas that will move our students to the top. I'm still a little leary about some of the generalities you posted. So how exactly to you create "classes devoted to learning how to learn"? If we as a group want to improve the school district then we as a group should identify/suggest specific teaching tools for both students and parents.
Step #1:
Like our Hoosier neighbors to the West, join a growing grassroots movement to leverage each and every Ohio school district away from the Federal economic blackmail commonly known as Common Core teaching standards.
Common core has been nothing more than a FAILURE everywhere, Ohio's public schools being no exception. These days around the state of Ohio, the reason hundreds upon hundreds of districts pat themselves on the back while proudly displaying "Excellent" banners generally has not so much to do with improved quality of teaching. This has a lot more to do with image protection. Our students' standards have been very quietly lowered thru the years in order to help mask the flaws that are inherent in this system of teaching that has been rammed down our throats by the blackmailing FEDS in DC.
Why is the OAA bar systematically lowered? Common Core teaching methods has lead to a propensity to want to "feel good" about education. At the end of the day, Common Core teaching methods turn a blind eye as to HOW WELL the children are educated.
Ohio's distorted mandated Common Core teaching methods are behind why so many A students (and yes even a lot of "gifted" students) end up having to take remedial classes before they can begin their college major.

More...
http://stopcommoncore.com/
http://americansforprosperity.org/indiana/new...
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23266 Jan 31, 2013
Now What wrote:
<quoted text>

That makes no sense. What is traditional anymore? Students are learning how to calculate math in their heads quicker than we ever did, they are learning basic algebra in 2nd grade. Traditional History – assuming you are 40ish, there are 20-30 extra years of history that your students need to learn that you didn’t. Do you add that extra history onto the end of what we learned as students, do you skip some, do you avoid the more recent history. As for science, there are advances in science every day so I ask again – what is traditional??
As for the $50 million to teach our kids? Really? The total budget is less than $43 million, and of that teachers need to be paid, supplies need to be paid, building expenses need to be paid, etc.. The board spent a lot of time going through the budget last year with very little left over for “new ideas”. We can remove things from the budget and then add teaching tools or other things that you think are not “waste” but how, what - be specific? There is obviously no EXTRA money because as you say “the community has been enormously generous” and is not willing to provide the district with any EXTRA support.
Lastly, the "it takes a village" comment was in response to Just Watching's comment of "only the vox populi can stem this tide of mediocrity". And if you feel your child is not learning in Springboro then (as you indicated) shame on you. You picked the wrong place to live, the wrong school, and probably the wrong spouse (they are also 1/2 to blame for your child's inability to learn).
I am fairly certain math does not really change that much. 2+2=4 has been around for a few millennium or so.

Science has indeed grown by leaps and bounds but to adequately understand what has transpired is to learn the traditional basics upon which all of these great advances have grown from. Without that traditional avenue of though it is doubtful that todays discoveries would have been made. I would suggest for you a diet of the 1970's BBC show "Connections". This show demonstrated how our thoroughly "modern" world is based up the combination of seeming unrelated scientific discoveries over the history of mankind. Quite entertaining, as well as informative.

History, as you know, is roughly 300 thousand years or so of mankind's existence. An extra 20 years will hardly be that great of a burden on your poor child's life. Even if you went back to the Hellenistic states it would still be 2500 years ago, so an extra 25 years would amount to a mere 1% more to learn. If that is a problem, maybe we could cut out some of the middle ages, they weren't that exciting anyway.

$43,000,000 sure sounds like a lot of money to me. Maybe the problem lies in the ways in which we are allocating this scarce resource. Looking at the salary schedule it seems as though the people with the greatest amount of seniority are taking the largest cut of the pie. Does that mean they are doing more work than those getting the least? Or are they that much more talented than those getting the least? How much better do you become between your 12th year of service and your 19th year? I am quite sure some do indeed meet the above criteria, but do all of them? And if all of the don't why do they get a larger raise with each passing year than say a teacher with 4 years of experience who by all accounts is doing and outstanding job in the same area?

It might be time to think outside the box and review how we see things. Reallocation of resources is a common business technique when faced with a revenue stream that is not as robust as one would wish.

Springboro is filled with great people, great places, and great opportunities. We should match our school system to the rest of the community and demand excellence. Anything less is a slap in the face to those teachers who put it out there everyday for our children.

If the can give their best, why not the rest of us?
Bad to the Core

Cincinnati, OH

#23267 Jan 31, 2013
Should the White House control what your kids learn?
By Stanley Kurtz
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/07/sho...
Editor's note: this piece is adapted from "Spreading the Wealth: How Obama is Robbing the Suburbs to Pay for the Cities " (Sentinel HC August 2012).
Save our Students

Cincinnati, OH

#23268 Jan 31, 2013
Schools in Ohio have a spending problem
Letter writer William S. McDowall is correct to blame our politicians for Ohio’s school-funding crisis and the increasing levy fatigue throughout our state. However, while he thinks “ unconstitutional” funding is the problem, it is the skyrocketing employee costs for which we should fault our legislators (“ Lawmakers must remedy school funding,” Jan. 27).
Most notably, in 1983, Ohio Democrats granted the teachers unions the right to strike against students and communities for better pay and benefits.
This has ultimately resulted in decades of the unions demanding teacher raises averaging 5 percent to 6 percent annually, nearly twice that awarded typical Ohio workers. In addition, the unions expect nearly free employee health care, regardless of its cost, and million-dollar pensions for just 30 years of nine-month employment.
Our lawmakers also have mandated that teachers have a master’s degree. Yes, this may sound great, but unfortunately it only guarantees larger salaries for teachers and higher costs for the community, with no guarantee (or evidence) of increased performance in the schools.
Finally, to exaggerate the expense problem it helped create, the legislature eventually offered huge pension bonuses for teachers who worked beyond 30 years.
This not only drove up salary and benefit costs to keep costly long-tenured teachers, but it also made it very difficult for Ohio’s young teachers to find work. Yes, Ohio’s legislature is largely responsible for our school-funding crisis, but it has little to do with funding, and much more to do with spending. And we will not solve this problem until a majority of Ohioans and the unions accept that simple fact.
In the meantime, the unions will reject needed change, push for new funding (levies), and quietly watch as school boards dismantle programs and cut services because the generous union contracts of the past are no longer sustainable.
MICHAEL ALFRED
Grass is Always Greener

West Chester, OH

#23269 Jan 31, 2013
While Save our Students may be right about some things from the past, these conditions are not true for the present.

For the record, as a teacher, I have NEVER received a 5 to 6 percent annual pay raise; the largest increase I ever saw at one time was 3 percent, but I haven't seen that for 5 years. My salary has also been the same for the past two years.

Also, the State Teachers Retirement System has changed greatly. Teachers have been paying 10 percent of their paycheck toward retirement; now they'll be paying 14 percent. To retire with full benefits, you have to teach for 35 years and be at least 60 years old. There is also to be no added benefit to teaching beyond this time.

I will say, however, that I disagree with his comments on spending being the problem. The problem is that when the Governor cuts state funding, the schools have to get the money from somewhere else (ergo, the tax payers through property taxes--which I agree is an unconstitutional method). Most districts (including Springboro) have already made drastic cuts to lessen the impact on the community. Unfortunately, books and supplies and personnel still cost money. You can only cut off so much your body off before you begin to kill yourself. Our Governor is placing more of the burden on the shoulders of local communities while at the same time funneling our money to for-profit charter schools, which have no oversight whatsoever.

Tell me how fair is that to a community and district that is already sacrificing together?
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#23270 Jan 31, 2013
Grass is Always Greener wrote:
While Save our Students may be right about some things from the past, these conditions are not true for the present.
For the record, as a teacher, I have NEVER received a 5 to 6 percent annual pay raise; the largest increase I ever saw at one time was 3 percent, but I haven't seen that for 5 years. My salary has also been the same for the past two years.
Also, the State Teachers Retirement System has changed greatly. Teachers have been paying 10 percent of their paycheck toward retirement; now they'll be paying 14 percent. To retire with full benefits, you have to teach for 35 years and be at least 60 years old. There is also to be no added benefit to teaching beyond this time.
I will say, however, that I disagree with his comments on spending being the problem. The problem is that when the Governor cuts state funding, the schools have to get the money from somewhere else (ergo, the tax payers through property taxes--which I agree is an unconstitutional method). Most districts (including Springboro) have already made drastic cuts to lessen the impact on the community. Unfortunately, books and supplies and personnel still cost money. You can only cut off so much your body off before you begin to kill yourself. Our Governor is placing more of the burden on the shoulders of local communities while at the same time funneling our money to for-profit charter schools, which have no oversight whatsoever.
Tell me how fair is that to a community and district that is already sacrificing together?
Thanks for the factual info!
life is rough

Cleveland, OH

#23271 Jan 31, 2013
Grass is Always Greener wrote:
While Save our Students may be right about some things from the past, these conditions are not true for the present.
For the record, as a teacher, I have NEVER received a 5 to 6 percent annual pay raise; the largest increase I ever saw at one time was 3 percent, but I haven't seen that for 5 years. My salary has also been the same for the past two years.
Also, the State Teachers Retirement System has changed greatly. Teachers have been paying 10 percent of their paycheck toward retirement; now they'll be paying 14 percent. To retire with full benefits, you have to teach for 35 years and be at least 60 years old. There is also to be no added benefit to teaching beyond this time.
I will say, however, that I disagree with his comments on spending being the problem. The problem is that when the Governor cuts state funding, the schools have to get the money from somewhere else (ergo, the tax payers through property taxes--which I agree is an unconstitutional method). Most districts (including Springboro) have already made drastic cuts to lessen the impact on the community. Unfortunately, books and supplies and personnel still cost money. You can only cut off so much your body off before you begin to kill yourself. Our Governor is placing more of the burden on the shoulders of local communities while at the same time funneling our money to for-profit charter schools, which have no oversight whatsoever.
Tell me how fair is that to a community and district that is already sacrificing together?
Anyone anywhere in this sucky econony making the same money for the past two years ought to be counting their blessings. While you've been able to maintain the "same" salary while working only 9 months out of the year, many of your private sector peers have been leveraged out of their jobs or have had to deal with drastic reductions in their benefits.
So sorry you've got to pay an additional 4% to PERS, so YOU have 4% more saved to spend in your retirement! You know what they say - life's a b!tch and then you die.
Stop blaming the state of Ohio! Priority numero uno for our schools is to wean ourselves away from the evil of State and Federal influence. The budget "cuts" made in Springboro schools hasn't negatively affected our students one iota.

Thank you very much for bringing up the topic of charter schools.
Yes, charter schools have had a spotty history, particularly in urban areas. However there are many examples of conversion school success especially in areas that generally mirror the demographics of Springboro.
How can parents of this district's school children learn about conversion schools when Boro teachers (revved up by still-sore loser Babbs) do everything they can possibly can to throw stop-sticks under it's wheels?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23272 Jan 31, 2013
Grass is Always Greener wrote:
While Save our Students may be right about some things from the past, these conditions are not true for the present.
For the record, as a teacher, I have NEVER received a 5 to 6 percent annual pay raise; the largest increase I ever saw at one time was 3 percent, but I haven't seen that for 5 years. My salary has also been the same for the past two years.
Also, the State Teachers Retirement System has changed greatly. Teachers have been paying 10 percent of their paycheck toward retirement; now they'll be paying 14 percent. To retire with full benefits, you have to teach for 35 years and be at least 60 years old. There is also to be no added benefit to teaching beyond this time.
I will say, however, that I disagree with his comments on spending being the problem. The problem is that when the Governor cuts state funding, the schools have to get the money from somewhere else (ergo, the tax payers through property taxes--which I agree is an unconstitutional method). Most districts (including Springboro) have already made drastic cuts to lessen the impact on the community. Unfortunately, books and supplies and personnel still cost money. You can only cut off so much your body off before you begin to kill yourself. Our Governor is placing more of the burden on the shoulders of local communities while at the same time funneling our money to for-profit charter schools, which have no oversight whatsoever.
Tell me how fair is that to a community and district that is already sacrificing together?
For the record, as a teacher, I have NEVER received a 5 to 6 percent annual pay raise; the largest increase I ever saw at one time was 3 percent, but I haven't seen that for 5 years. My salary has also been the same for the past two years.

If you haven't had a raise in five years, how could your salary have bee the same for the past two years?

You forgot to mention during your diatribe that the 10% you put in was matched by the taxpayers of this school district to the tune of 14% of your salary. In essence you were receiving 24% of your salary for retirement. A regular IRA allows only 10% of a person's salary or wages plus what ever bit an employer wishes to contribute. Most follow IRS guidelines and toss in another 3% or so, giving them a grand total of 13% maximum.

With your new rates rising to 14%(to compensate for years of overly generous benefits that left the program severely underfunded) a public employee will now get 28% of their salary put into a retirement account for them. That is around twice what everyone else in private business is afforded.

You decry the fact that you must know work until you are 60 to enjoy full benefits. The rest of us will need to slog to work until we are 67 to receive full benefits from social security.

Maybe you missed the governor's education plan, but he will be providing more money to each school district than had been previously allotted. You might want to read up on how they will be evening out the playing field across the state for funding.

Did I misstate any one of those positions?

The final point is many people in this community and area at large would love to be where they were five years ago financially. Ask all those folks who used to work at the GM plants around the area, or supplied the GM plants around the area, or the folks at Wright Pat that have been RIFFED. Drive up and down I75 and take a look at how good the last 5 years have been around here as evidenced by the massive amounts of empty space once occupied.

And you forgot to mention the insurance program. Explain the details of that to the public at large.

For those of you with the new norm of high deductible insurance, you will really love this one.

And in the end we still have 2000 plus children who are not receiving the education for which the taxpayers are already paying.

Talk to us about some new ideas that can help turn that number around.
seek truth

Springfield, OH

#23273 Feb 1, 2013
Bad to the Core wrote:
Should the White House control what your kids learn?
By Stanley Kurtz
Read more: http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2012/09/07/sho...
Editor's note: this piece is adapted from "Spreading the Wealth: How Obama is Robbing the Suburbs to Pay for the Cities " (Sentinel HC August 2012).
There are at least three people in our community that work for Obama and his take over of education. One is a paid social marketing bolgger, the other a teacher who wants badly to be a board member making decisions to keep up the education lies, and the last is a follower who wants her children educated to the highest level with other peoples money. They all call themselves Christians. Obama is not Christian, he only recruits them to destroy their own and in fact, hates Christians and this country. Obama is out to destroy this country and turn it into Germany. Obama fashions himself a king and his followers will be richly rewarded and those that do not want to destroy this country will be put in concentration camps. He has only a few things left to do.
Shut down that pesky media, finish taking over health care, complete his financial devastation so we all beg to be rescued, take control of education, and finally take away our ability to defend ourselves. WOW this looks just like what these three amigoes are doing. Taking over media, finish taking over this education system and hand our kids minds over to the union and Obama, financially devastate our community with taxes and discredit good Christians so even their followers don't like them. Hale to the king.
more of the same nonsense

Springfield, OH

#23274 Feb 1, 2013
Grass is Always Greener wrote:
While Save our Students may be right about some things from the past, these conditions are not true for the present.
For the record, as a teacher, I have NEVER received a 5 to 6 percent annual pay raise; the largest increase I ever saw at one time was 3 percent, but I haven't seen that for 5 years. My salary has also been the same for the past two years.
Also, the State Teachers Retirement System has changed greatly. Teachers have been paying 10 percent of their paycheck toward retirement; now they'll be paying 14 percent. To retire with full benefits, you have to teach for 35 years and be at least 60 years old. There is also to be no added benefit to teaching beyond this time.
I will say, however, that I disagree with his comments on spending being the problem. The problem is that when the Governor cuts state funding, the schools have to get the money from somewhere else (ergo, the tax payers through property taxes--which I agree is an unconstitutional method). Most districts (including Springboro) have already made drastic cuts to lessen the impact on the community. Unfortunately, books and supplies and personnel still cost money. You can only cut off so much your body off before you begin to kill yourself. Our Governor is placing more of the burden on the shoulders of local communities while at the same time funneling our money to for-profit charter schools, which have no oversight whatsoever.
Tell me how fair is that to a community and district that is already sacrificing together?
These are the education/educator lies I was talking about. So much of what you said here was untruthful that I don't know where to start.

Is your union telling you this stuff?
more of the same nonsense

Springfield, OH

#23275 Feb 1, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
For the record, as a teacher, I have NEVER received a 5 to 6 percent annual pay raise; the largest increase I ever saw at one time was 3 percent, but I haven't seen that for 5 years. My salary has also been the same for the past two years.
If you haven't had a raise in five years, how could your salary have bee the same for the past two years?
You forgot to mention during your diatribe that the 10% you put in was matched by the taxpayers of this school district to the tune of 14% of your salary. In essence you were receiving 24% of your salary for retirement. A regular IRA allows only 10% of a person's salary or wages plus what ever bit an employer wishes to contribute. Most follow IRS guidelines and toss in another 3% or so, giving them a grand total of 13% maximum.
With your new rates rising to 14%(to compensate for years of overly generous benefits that left the program severely underfunded) a public employee will now get 28% of their salary put into a retirement account for them. That is around twice what everyone else in private business is afforded.
You decry the fact that you must know work until you are 60 to enjoy full benefits. The rest of us will need to slog to work until we are 67 to receive full benefits from social security.
Maybe you missed the governor's education plan, but he will be providing more money to each school district than had been previously allotted. You might want to read up on how they will be evening out the playing field across the state for funding.
Did I misstate any one of those positions?
The final point is many people in this community and area at large would love to be where they were five years ago financially. Ask all those folks who used to work at the GM plants around the area, or supplied the GM plants around the area, or the folks at Wright Pat that have been RIFFED. Drive up and down I75 and take a look at how good the last 5 years have been around here as evidenced by the massive amounts of empty space once occupied.
And you forgot to mention the insurance program. Explain the details of that to the public at large.
For those of you with the new norm of high deductible insurance, you will really love this one.
And in the end we still have 2000 plus children who are not receiving the education for which the taxpayers are already paying.
Talk to us about some new ideas that can help turn that number around.
Thanks Just Watching, You know Grass is always Greener is a teacher because they never stray from the "we don't have a spending problem" mantra and "it is someone elses fault" and "poor me" and " let's kick the can down the road". This is much like the old and tried "its for the kids" until the leader of the teachers union said that he will start to worry about children when they start paying dues. At that point we got it clearly that the union does not care but they will use their membership to spread the for the kids nonsense.
Look Grass is Always Greener- that does not work anymore so we see you have tried a new tactic- spread lies about the good people that tell on you. Did you all know that it was the National Teachers Union that hired Saul Alinshy to write Rules for Radicles"? Did you know that he clearly tells them to discredit and personally attack your enemy. I am sure he preached this because he knew there was no way to win on the facts. Bill Ayres is the Key note speaker at the National Teacher conference this month- anyone have any questions now? Lisa you goin?
"If you control education you control the world". Who controls education?
This is why they hate hate hate school choice-can't control all of those pesky independent schools. Although they will try.
Just curious

Springfield, OH

#23276 Feb 1, 2013
Just curious, how many Springboro families would have loved to have a pay freeze for two years?

Notice "Grass is always greener" says that she has not had a raise in 5 years and her pay has been the same for the last two? See they do not believe that a step INCREASE is a raise. Another lie for the sympathy vote. How many Springboro families would have liked to have "not had a raise" for the last 5 years with their pay staying the same for the last two?
I don't know of anyone but a government worker that has had the same income for the last few years everyone I know is having less income and far less benefits. Sorry no tears for you today.
Celebrate you have a job and a secure one at that and you have far better benefits than anyone else I know.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23277 Feb 1, 2013
A Tale of Two Cities

A city called Reality

January 10, 2013

Springboro Board of Education requests to open labor negotiations with The Springboro Education As

http://local.cincinnati.com/share/story/20072...

http://www.abc22now.com/shared/news/top-stori...

http://www.fox45now.com/shared/news/top-stori...

And a city called Obfuscation

January 30, 2013

OEA/SEA decline Springboro Board of Education's request to open negotiations

http://local.cincinnati.com/share/story/20136...

The union then filed an unfair labor practices lawsuit against the Board of Education for having the effrontery to tell the public what the issues were as they see them in this negotiation.

The union wants negotiations in the dark back room.

The populace should want them out in the sunshine, since its the public's money they will be wrangling over.
certainly worth repeating

Cleveland, OH

#23278 Feb 1, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
January 30, 2013
OEA/SEA decline Springboro Board of Education's request to open negotiations.

http://local.cincinnati.com/share/story/20136...

The union then filed an unfair labor practices lawsuit against the Board of Education for having the effrontery to tell the public what the issues were as they see them in this negotiation.
The union wants negotiations in the dark back room.
The populace should want them out in the sunshine, since its the public's money they will be wrangling over.
January 30, 2013
OEA/SEA decline Springboro Board of Education's request to open negotiations.

http://local.cincinnati.com/share/story/20136...

The union then filed an unfair labor practices lawsuit against the Board of Education for having the effrontery to tell the public what the issues were as they see them in this negotiation.
The union wants negotiations in the dark back room.
The populace should want them out in the sunshine, since its the public's money they will be wrangling over.
nobama for this mama

Cincinnati, OH

#23279 Feb 1, 2013
Lurker wrote:
<quoted text>
Thanks for the factual info!
sos to boe...big brother lurking on this website has clearly shown us "Why We Need A Conversion School." Let's rally
together to Bring It On! We need a contract!
Queen for the Day

Cleveland, OH

#23280 Feb 1, 2013
you are kidding wrote:
<quoted text>
levy "ladies" ? Babb, Carlisle, Jobe ?....you must have low standards..they are not ladies, but B*****S.
Let's make this perfectly clear - Jobe is the Queen B****!
All Talk

Cleveland, OH

#23281 Feb 1, 2013
Carlisle is all talk and no action! She was heard stating that IF Petroni and Rigano got on the school board that she would put her house on the market and move. To my knowledge she is still here and no, her house is not on the market - all talk and no action!
no turning back Tiff

Cleveland, OH

#23282 Feb 1, 2013
All Talk wrote:
Carlisle is all talk and no action! She was heard stating that IF Petroni and Rigano got on the school board that she would put her house on the market and move. To my knowledge she is still here and no, her house is not on the market - all talk and no action!
Next time have Tiff record this sort of statement with use of pen and paper.
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#23283 Feb 1, 2013
life is rough wrote:
<quoted text>
Anyone anywhere in this sucky econony making the same money for the past two years ought to be counting their blessings. While you've been able to maintain the "same" salary while working only 9 months out of the year, many of your private sector peers have been leveraged out of their jobs or have had to deal with drastic reductions in their benefits.
So sorry you've got to pay an additional 4% to PERS, so YOU have 4% more saved to spend in your retirement! You know what they say - life's a b!tch and then you die.
Stop blaming the state of Ohio! Priority numero uno for our schools is to wean ourselves away from the evil of State and Federal influence. The budget "cuts" made in Springboro schools hasn't negatively affected our students one iota.
Thank you very much for bringing up the topic of charter schools.
Yes, charter schools have had a spotty history, particularly in urban areas. However there are many examples of conversion school success especially in areas that generally mirror the demographics of Springboro.
How can parents of this district's school children learn about conversion schools when Boro teachers (revved up by still-sore loser Babbs) do everything they can possibly can to throw stop-sticks under it's wheels?
Can you please name the districts conversion schools have been successful?
not working

Springfield, OH

#23284 Feb 1, 2013
You know what is so funny, David Bowman writes a blogg about Kohls speaking to community groups that invite her. Fills his blog with insane lies and the next community group got hundreds of people in the crowd to listen to her. Isn't that what we don't want people listening to her? People love controversy and you just got a few hundred more to listen to her message.

Kinda like when Tiffany ranted at the podium of a board meeting and the Kohls web site got 20,000 hits that month. So much for minimizing impact. Thanks guys it's not working for you either.
I have been to one of her presentations and she talks about none of what the Bownam blogg says. Mr. Bowman have you ever been to one, have you ever talked to her, have you ever pulled your head out?

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