Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

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a very rude awakening

Girard, OH

#23220 Jan 28, 2013
Each and every Springboro parent and concerned citizen should take a half hour out of their busy lives to read through this...

http://www.oagc.com/files/OAGC_Grading_On_A_C...

Could it be Springboro schools is just another Ohio school districts that has been victimized by low sets of standards being set for our school children? Is it possible that Boro's "Excellent with Distinction" designation amounts to not a lot more than some really nice banners to hang, and a nice perennial back rubbing from Columbus?
PSEO

Springboro, OH

#23221 Jan 29, 2013
Lurker wrote:
<quoted text>
I don't think it saves the school any money because it is going to still have teach the kids who don't chose this option. It is a good deal for kids and their parents but not sure how it is better than AP classes, which are already taught.
A student can go through a whole semester taking an AP course to at the end have a score on the AP National exam that does not get them out of a college course. If students get a score of 3 and the college they are going to require a 4 or 5 on the test they don't actually get out of anything. Why waste the whole semester taking a course at the HS when you could take one at a college and know for certain you are not going to be wasting your time?
Our scores on these AP exams is another reason Springboro did not score well on the US News report. It sounds like lots of kids don't pass out of college courses when they take AP courses due to some low scorers.

These kids take AP courses to test out of college courses. I would like to see a study or do a tracking to see how many actually got out of a college course by testing out of it on the AP exam.

My guess is that AP course work is not getting them out of college as much as taking the course at college would.
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#23222 Jan 30, 2013
PSEO cost the district $60K this year.

We could have helped a lot of our "failing" kids with that money!
Why no answers

Massillon, OH

#23223 Jan 30, 2013
Lurker wrote:
PSEO cost the district $60K this year.
We could have helped a lot of our "failing" kids with that money!
How many kids did that serve and how many credits did the kids earn?
Boro class of 2019

Girard, OH

#23224 Jan 30, 2013
a very rude awakening wrote:
Each and every Springboro parent and concerned citizen should take a half hour out of their busy lives to read through this...
http://www.oagc.com/files/OAGC_Grading_On_A_C...
Could it be Springboro schools is just another Ohio school districts that has been victimized by low sets of standards being set for our school children? Is it possible that Boro's "Excellent with Distinction" designation amounts to not a lot more than some really nice banners to hang, and a nice perennial back rubbing from Columbus?
Let's take a look at last year's graduating class of Dennis and Five Points Elementary, Boro's class of 2019.

May 2012 Ohio Achievement Assessment
Springboro Community City Schools
Grade 5

http://www.oagc.com/files/OAGC_Grading_On_A_C...
(please see page 12)

Reading
A 5th grader needs to answer 25 out of 49 questions correctly (a minimum cut score of 51%) in order to be "Proficient".

Last year, OVER HALF!... 52.3% of Dennis and Five Points 5th graders (249 students) tested "proficient", or lower than the "proficient" cut score of 51%.
__________

Math
A 5th grader needs to answer 25 out of 52 math problems correctly (a minimum cut score of 48%) in order to be "Proficient".

Last year, almost one-third 31.4% of Dennis and Five Point 5th graders (147 students) tested "proficient", or lower than than the "proficient" cut score of 48%.

If almost 1/3 of today's sixth graders struggle to keep up with math and over 50% of them have difficulty with reading, how will a lot of these kids cope beginning next year when they'll be confronted with a much more difficult cirriculum that has been mandated by the state of Ohio?
Now What

Piqua, OH

#23225 Jan 30, 2013
Now that we all have read the Grading on a Curve document that everyone is pasting on here - what are you suggesting we do? What recommendations are you making to improve Springboro school district? Are the common core standards going to get us where you think we should be?
There has been posting after posting about the cut scores and how bad Springboro is doing but I've seen no specifics from anyone as to how to improve.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23226 Jan 30, 2013
The first thing we need to do is disabuse ourselves of the notion that we are the best thing since sliced bread. We have some deep systemic issues that need to be dealt with in this community in regards to educating our children.

1) We need to realistically evaluate where our deficiencies exist, both inside and outside the classroom. Education is not a drop your child off for 7 hours and they return educated. It involves the parents backing up and supporting the teachers at home, Requiring and helping with homework to make sure it is done. Not all parents are created equal, so we need to make sure that the parents have the resources to learn the material being taught so they can help the children learn. There seems to be a need for a study island for parents who wish to help their children but have been away from school for many years.

2) Just like there are no two children who are alike in their abilities, we need to recognize that teachers are much the same. Not all teachers are created equal, some are excellent, some are good, some are mediocre, and some are bad. Nodding our head at the union mantra that all teachers are excellent is a bit too Animal Farm for me. Let us begin to call a spade a spade and utilize our resources in house to bring those less talented up to speed or show them the door. The ones paying the price for mediocre or less ability are the very ones we are here for, the children.

3) Raising the standards by which we choose to operate and then enforcing those standards will pay huge dividends for all involved, from administrators, to teachers, to parents, to children, to taxpayers. We are not condemned to troll the base standards that the state employs, we are perfectly free to aim so much higher.

4) Real achievement that can be measured and quantified. While some may call that teaching to the test, I call that basic knowledge required to function productively in this society. Feasting on semantics to cover up failure is no substitute for actual learning and academic achievement. Rote learning of your math tables may seem boring, but the results are undeniable. Build self esteem with actual accomplishment, not with a false Honor Society where the top 70% of your class is recognized as deserving that accolade.

5) Recognize that not all children learn in the same environment and realize that other choices may be necessary. Some may thrive under a more rigorous discipline setting, while different children wilt under the same authority. Build programs that allow parents the choice of where their child should attempt to succeed.

6) We are not fated to repeat the past in hopes of gaining an alternate ending. We are free to reinvent the system, let us grasp this opportunity and move both our school district and our children forward now.

7) Speak up against the status quo and demand true excellence throughout the school district. Only the vox populi can stem this tide of mediocrity.
Now What

Piqua, OH

#23227 Jan 30, 2013
Just Watching, you certainly like to write your thoughts but as usual there is actually no plan in what you wrote. No specifics, how is any of this going to be accomplished (especially with no budget).

1) Good ideas – how are they accomplished? Should we have more parent-teacher conferences? Better websites for classes/teachers/subjects? How do you make parents better parents?

2) I don’t know anyone that would say “all teachers are great/excellent” although from your point #1 –“It involves the parents backing up and supporting the teachers at home”. Good point. Whether you like the teacher or not, you need to help your students at home. FYI, bashing the unions isn’t helping the students.

3) How is this done? Do we use different tests? Do we test prior to the State tests to make sure we are doing better? This is a good idea but again, how do you do it? Who will be the one to identify what standards need to be raise and how it can be accomplished. I’m looking for specifics, not generalities.

4) What are you suggesting that the students spend more time on their math tables – maybe a good idea. What else? FYI, 70% of students are not in the Honor Society (it’s closer to about 10%).

5) I agree. What environments are you suggesting? STEM, Arts, Language, hands-on learning? Who identifies these learning environments and how are they funded, taught, etc.?

6) Again – lots of pretty words with absolutely no beef behind it. If you want to use your words for good then come up with specific things that this school can do (with basically no budget to do it).

7) Takes a village!
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#23228 Jan 30, 2013
Why no answers wrote:
<quoted text>
How many kids did that serve and how many credits did the kids earn?
In 2011, according to the ODE website, Springboro schools had 25 students participating.
Inquiring Minds

Piqua, OH

#23229 Jan 30, 2013
Does the OEA encourage teachers to indoctrinate Ohio’s Kids?
Is the OEA monthly newsletter to teachers posted on public websites?
Do we parents know what our children are learning from teacher unionists, who believe along with the OEA, that teachers should not only be members of a labor union, but also should indoctrinate our children on unionism?

As the OEA dictates teachers in their monthly newsletter,“It’s essential that they not only be teacher unionists, but teachers of unionism. We need to create a generation of students who support teachers and the movements of teachers for their rights.”
How about they focus on just teaching our kids the core skills they will need in math, reading, writing, and science? How about they leave their political ideology and unionism out of the classroom? As the National Assessment of Educational Progress results show, more than half of America’s 8th graders fail basic civics tests. Clearly, our teachers have enough to do already.

The OEA needs to keep its left-wing views outside of the classroom and its hands off our kids’ curriculum. This type of indoctrination isn’t a surprise coming from a group with a leader who once boldly admitted it was more concerned with getting more power than the best interest of our kids.
Inquiring Minds

Piqua, OH

#23230 Jan 30, 2013
The worst part of this indoctrination dictate is that it involves a captive audience that lacks the knowledge and power to challenge what they are being brainwashed to believe. The OEA does not even attempt to be responsible about its desire to create a Union Youth---they encourage teachers to aim this message at children as young as the 4th grade. The OEA approvingly recommends a website that “aims to inform children (grades 4-7) on current news and world events from a progressive perspective, and to inspire a passion for social justice and learning.
Lurker

Englewood, OH

#23231 Jan 30, 2013
Inquiring Minds, can you provide the link?
Inquiring Minds

Piqua, OH

#23232 Jan 30, 2013
This “progressive” website for 10 year olds contains links on the main page titled “Bush Wanted Abroad” and “Global Warming Causes Snow.” The Bush Wanted Abroad article consists of this reporting gem:“In February, former President George W. Bush canceled a trip to Switzerland to avoid being arrested for human rights abuses. Bush admitted to allowing the torture of prisoners held by the Untied States. This is a violation of international law. There are now several countries in which Bush may be arrested if he enters them.” Nice objective “news” for a 10 year old to read, right?
Inquiring Minds

Piqua, OH

#23233 Jan 30, 2013
Resource links for teachers can include a link to “Radical Math.” The Radical Math website thinks that teaching math should be overtly political and teachers should include propaganda about social justice into math lessons. So, the days of trains leaving Chicago traveling 55 miles per hour are over. Our kids apparently will now do math problems about the death penalty, global warming, enhanced interrogation techniques, and the greedy rich.
Why no answers

Elyria, OH

#23234 Jan 30, 2013
Lurker wrote:
<quoted text>
In 2011, according to the ODE website, Springboro schools had 25 students participating.
How many this year?
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23235 Jan 30, 2013
Now What wrote:
Just Watching, you certainly like to write your thoughts but as usual there is actually no plan in what you wrote. No specifics, how is any of this going to be accomplished (especially with no budget).
1) Good ideas – how are they accomplished? Should we have more parent-teacher conferences? Better websites for classes/teachers/subjects? How do you make parents better parents?
2) I don’t know anyone that would say “all teachers are great/excellent” although from your point #1 –“It involves the parents backing up and supporting the teachers at home”. Good point. Whether you like the teacher or not, you need to help your students at home. FYI, bashing the unions isn’t helping the students.
3) How is this done? Do we use different tests? Do we test prior to the State tests to make sure we are doing better? This is a good idea but again, how do you do it? Who will be the one to identify what standards need to be raise and how it can be accomplished. I’m looking for specifics, not generalities.
4) What are you suggesting that the students spend more time on their math tables – maybe a good idea. What else? FYI, 70% of students are not in the Honor Society (it’s closer to about 10%).
5) I agree. What environments are you suggesting? STEM, Arts, Language, hands-on learning? Who identifies these learning environments and how are they funded, taught, etc.?
6) Again – lots of pretty words with absolutely no beef behind it. If you want to use your words for good then come up with specific things that this school can do (with basically no budget to do it).
7) Takes a village!
1) You can't make all parents better, but the ones who do want the help will certainly take advantage of whatever is offered. If we are able to reach more parents and make them aware of the resources we have at hand through say a combination of old fashion notes sent home, phone calls, emails, or texts, then more will move in the direction that benefits all. Communication is the key, just as it is in so many endeavors.
I like many of your suggestions and quick brainstorming in this section. That kind of free thinking, when applied over a community, will almost certainly develop the winning strategy to accomplish our goals.
2) Listen to the union mantra, its Animal Farm on steroids.
3) I would suggest utilizing existing tests from an international level. After all, that is who our children will be competing against in the future. The international tests far exceed the state tests so our bases would be covered from a state level.
4) Classes devoted to learning how to learn. These may seem rather silly but the main reason employers like to hire college graduates is because they have demonstrated the ability to learn.
Developing an ongoing program that builds year upon year, we would take what is assumed to be a universal skill and turn it into an actual skill set weapon that can be employed now and in the future.
Learning how to learn is when the light bulb goes on in a student's mind and they finally get what we have been talking about.
5) As I said, all children are different and we are free to reinvent the wheel here. From traditional books, to multimedia, to home learning, to rigid programs of study to free wheeling exchanges of ideas, we are not chained to the past.
6) We have plenty of money, it is a matter of how we deploy that particular asset to its best use.
You appear to have rather open and inquisitive mind, what would you do? Ask that question of enough people and plans begin to develop.
7) It doesn't really take a village, it takes a few lonely souls to stand up and be counted for a change.

Neither I, nor anyone else, have all the answers or even a fraction of them. Collectively, however, our individual experiences and knowledge when brought together gives us something that can become great. Our Founding Fathers spent years honing a constitution, great works require great effort.

Are you in or are you out?
BoroWise

Piqua, OH

#23236 Jan 30, 2013
Any teacher can study books, but books do not necessarily bring wisdom, nor that human insight essential to consummate teaching skills.
-Bliss Perry
Boroparent

Cincinnati, OH

#23237 Jan 30, 2013
The Death Of Common Sense
12-13-10

Obituary

Today we mourn the passing of a beloved old friend, Common Sense, who has been with us for many years. No one knows for sure how old he was, since his birth records were long ago lost in bureaucratic red tape.
He will be remembered as having cultivated such valuable lessons as:

- Knowing when to come in out of the rain;
- Why the early bird gets the worm;
- Life isn't always fair; and
- Maybe it was my fault..

Common Sense lived by simple, sound financial policies (don't spend more than you can earn) and reliable strategies (adults, not children, are in charge). His health began to deteriorate rapidly when well-intentioned but overbearing regulations were set in place. Reports of a 6-year-old boy charged with sexual harassment for kissing a classmate; teens suspended from school for using mouthwash after lunch; and a teacher fired for reprimanding an unruly student, only worsened his condition.

Common Sense lost ground when parents attacked teachers for doing the job that they themselves had failed to do in disciplining their unruly children.

It declined even further when schools were required to get parental consent to administer sun lotion or an aspirin to a student; but could not inform parents when a student became pregnant and wanted to have an abortion.

Common Sense lost the will to live as the churches became businesses; and criminals received better treatment than their victims.

Common Sense took a beating when you couldn't defend yourself from a burglar in your own home and the burglar could sue you for assault.

Common Sense finally gave up the will to live, after a woman failed to realize that a steaming cup of coffee was hot. She spilled a little in her lap, and was promptly awarded a huge settlement.

Common Sense was preceded in death, by his parents, Truth and Trust, by his wife, Discretion, by his daughter, Responsibility, and by his son, Reason.

He is survived by his 4 stepbrothers:
I Know My Rights
I Want It Now
Someone Else Is To Blame
I'm A Victim
Not many attended his funeral because
so few realized he was gone..
If you still remember him, pass this on.
If not, join the majority and do nothing.
PSEO

Springboro, OH

#23238 Jan 31, 2013
Just Watching wrote:
<quoted text>
Undergraduate students, 2012-2013
The table below shows the total cost of tuition per semester, including General Fee and Network & Technology Fee for in-state and out-of-state undergraduate students, for the academic year 2012-2013.
Credit Hours
Lower Division,
IN-STATE
2012-2013
1.....$223.10
2.....$428.20
3.....$633.30
4....$838.40
5...$1,043.50
6....$1,248.60
7....$1,453.70
8....$1,658.80
9.....$1,863.90
10....$2,069.00
11....$2,274.10
12...$2,479.20
If you have more kids in college garning college credits then you would need fewer teachers at the high school teaching current event classes, film classes, etc. Reducing our unneeded staff, redeploying our unused resources in the high school to other areas of high need throughout the school district would certainly save us money and benefit all of the children who are now struggling within our system.
2000 plus children are still not getting it according to the data provide by the state assessment tests. Redeploying our forces to best serve and advance these children's education is of paramount concern for every taxpayer in this district. If the taxpayer is going to pay for it, we should demand something for our contribution.
If we can spend less on college than we do in the high school, how can we say no to 2000 children who are not getting the education they deserve by redeploying resources to better serve that population?
How can we say no to parents and children struggling with ever increasing costs of higher education?
How can we say no to providing the basic assistance to give our children the boost forward in life?
Is this why the high school never pushed PSEO?
Never mind the kids needs we have staff to keep employed.
Just Watching

Cleveland, OH

#23239 Jan 31, 2013
Inquiring Minds wrote:
Resource links for teachers can include a link to “Radical Math.” The Radical Math website thinks that teaching math should be overtly political and teachers should include propaganda about social justice into math lessons. So, the days of trains leaving Chicago traveling 55 miles per hour are over. Our kids apparently will now do math problems about the death penalty, global warming, enhanced interrogation techniques, and the greedy rich.
This is rich, right out of Stalin's Young Pioneer's teaching guide. Long live the proletariat!

(tongue in cheek sarcasm for those with a defective sense of humor)

http://www.radicalmath.org/

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