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# Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies

There are 32036 comments on the Dayton Daily News story from Feb 5, 2008, titled Our recommendation: Springboro voters should say 'yes' the first time to school levies. In it, Dayton Daily News reports that:

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Just Watching
#22060 Sep 22, 2012
The Kingdom charges each team \$350 to play in their league. Each team plays 8 games.\$350/8 games =\$43.75/game Since it requires two teams to play a game \$43.75 x 2 =\$87.50 (my bad on the incorrect math previously)

Select Practices:
Five Points 5:00 - 9:00 p.m. M-Th 4 hours x 4 days x 16 weeks = 256 hrs
Intermediate 5:00 - 9:00 p.m. M-Th 4 hours x 4 days x 16 weeks = 256 hrs
Clearcreek 5:00 - 9:00 p.m. M-Th 4 hours x 4 days x 16 weeks = 256 hrs

Dennis 8:00 - 12:00 p.m. Saturday only 4 hours x 12 weeks = 48 hrs
Five Points 8:00 -12:00 p.m. Saturday only 4 hours x 12 weeks = 48 hrs
Clearcreek 8:00 -12:00 p.m. Saturday only 4 hours x 12 weeks = 48 hrs
Intermediate 8:00 -12:00 p.m. Saturday only 4 hours x 12 weeks = 48 hrs

Select Games
Five Points 1:00 - 6:00 p.m. Sat-Sun 5 hrs x 2 days x 11 weeks = 110 hrs
Dennis 1:00 - 6:00 p.m. Sat-Sun 5 hrs x 2 days x 11 weeks = 110 hrs
Intermediate 1:00 - 6:00 p.m. Sat-Sun 5 hrs x 2 days x 11 weeks = 110 hrs

SYB effectively monopolizes our gym availability from first of November through the end of February. Tournaments are played the first week of March

The cost is \$10 per team usage for Intermediate and Clearcreek. The cost is \$15 per team usage for Dennis and Five Points. Practices run 1 hour and 20 minutes.
Games are scheduled for an 1 hour and 10 minute increments, but the schedule seldom runs on time during Select basketball.

The custodial fees ran about \$7500 divided by roughly 1290 hours would work out to about \$5.81/hour

The effective rate with custodial and usage fees included per team use:

Dennis or Five Points \$20.81

Intermediate or Clearcreek \$15.81

Kingdom \$45/hour

This is off the top of my head and someone with access to all the schedules and precise payments would be able to produce an accurate accounting in very little time. All said, this should be fairly close.

Still a pretty good value for SYB, its even better if you don't pay the usage fee.

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Just Watching
#22061 Sep 23, 2012
Correction to Effective Rates

Since practices and games tend to run 1 hour an 20 minutes for Select vs. Saturday rec leagues which run 1 hour or less, two different numbers seem to be demanded

Dennis or Five Points \$17.35/per team per usage

Intermediate \$13.32/per team per usage

Dennis or Five Points \$20.81/per team per usage

Intermediate or Clearcreek \$15.81/per team per usage

Still a pretty sweet deal, for Select it amounts to 62% less than the Kingdom for Dennis and Five Points. For Select at Intemediate it is 70% less than the Kingdom's \$45/hour.

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Great job
#22062 Sep 23, 2012
WOW this is really helpful. Is the district using these #'s can you send them these #'s?

Please also send this out to community. So this indicates that this community and its taxpayers are supplementing a for profit org or at least one that pays for expenses plus some to its board members.

These are numbers to think about.
Great job
#22063 Sep 23, 2012
Remember that at the schools custodial is not included in this \$10 or 15 so you have to add that back in. Does your Kingdom #'s include custodial already?

Custodial is \$36 per hour for the two teems so is really about \$16 more per team per hour unless there are 4 teams playing each hour then it is \$36 divided by 4 per hour. Where are these #'s? Still, I think far cheaper than Kingdom and Kingdom will fill up and not be avail for all of these teams. Maybe SYB should build their own facilities if they do not like district pricing.

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Just Watching
#22064 Sep 23, 2012
Great job wrote:
Remember that at the schools custodial is not included in this \$10 or 15 so you have to add that back in. Does your Kingdom #'s include custodial already?
Custodial is \$36 per hour for the two teems so is really about \$16 more per team per hour unless there are 4 teams playing each hour then it is \$36 divided by 4 per hour. Where are these #'s? Still, I think far cheaper than Kingdom and Kingdom will fill up and not be avail for all of these teams. Maybe SYB should build their own facilities if they do not like district pricing.
Allocating total yearly custodial fee paid to custodians, about \$7500, divided by the number of hours of usage by SYB, which is about 1920. That number provides you with an allocation amount per hour of usage. That amounts to \$5.81 per hour of SYB usage

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not impressed
#22065 Sep 23, 2012
Great job wrote:
Remember that at the schools custodial is not included in this \$10 or 15 so you have to add that back in. Does your Kingdom #'s include custodial already?
Custodial is \$36 per hour for the two teems so is really about \$16 more per team per hour unless there are 4 teams playing each hour then it is \$36 divided by 4 per hour. Where are these #'s? Still, I think far cheaper than Kingdom and Kingdom will fill up and not be avail for all of these teams. Maybe SYB should build their own facilities if they do not like district pricing.
this will also address the previous few posts,that I agree have some great information.
I think it woud be better served to just keep it on the hourly basis and not a team basis, because the fees are per hour. Because any organization pays by the hour.
For instance if the number you claim is 36 dollars for the custodial fee per hour is added to the 10 dollars or 15 dollar usage fee we get an hourly cost of rental of 46 dollars or 51 dollars depending on which elementary gym being used.
I agree Kingdom could not handle the 600 or so recreational players plus the select teams.

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Just Watching
#22066 Sep 23, 2012
Custodians were paid to unlock the facilities and get them started in the morning. They were also paid to come in after hours, lock up, and do a final cleaning on weekends. Thus they were not paid for each of the 1920 hours SYB occupied the gyms.

Fees are base upon per group of usage and is not an hourly fee according to the district policy found in section 7510.

We were being generous and applying the non-profit fees.

As everyone now knows the Springboro Youth Basketball program was a for profit organization that just recently became a non-profit. If the real fees were charged the cost per group would rightly sky rocket to \$65 per usage for Dennis/Five Points and \$50 per usage for Intermediate and Clearcreek.

Seriously, haggling over a great deal in an effort to short change our children's education is unseemly. Each dollar we fail to collect is one more the comes out of somewhere else in the budget to subsidize this organization.

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Where Is Accountability
#22067 Sep 23, 2012
not impressed wrote:
<quoted text>
now this is a fine post. Kudos.
I am just wondering since you seem to have a grasp on these costs if maybe you can find the answers to some of the following:
if in order to compare the costs of the Kingdom to Springboro for one hour, shouldn't the custodial fees that you mentioned be added in to see how the true cost per hour compares? Kingdom already includes all overhead expenses plus profit in each hour. I am just curious and you seem to have some answers to the costs.
Also if you could, how many hours per week per school does the SYB use each of the facilities? Also how many weeks do they use the facilities? Ballpark guess would be fine since it does include both boys and girls teams.
Also for clarification, what do you mean by a game at the kingdom generates \$83.75? what does this consist of?
So, Who Cares, If you are "not impressed?"
It sure isn't impressive of the Springboro Youth Basketball association to have operated at a profit all these years at the expense of school district taxpayers money being sucked out of our kids' classrooms while the schools gyms were "freely" abused by the SYB and the Baker/Long/Holtrey/Creager Team.

(We can all see for ourselves the SYB official protesting against "doing what's right for our school children and district taxpayers" at the September 11 school board meeting which broadcasts on Channel 21 on Sunday at 5:00 p.m.)

Turning our attention to holding our boosters organizations accountabile, does this group have their legal 501c3 status; or are they still operating outside the laws doing status quo, business as usual? Can the public expect to hear a report from this newly formed "Concession Oversight Team?" at the next public school Board of Education meeting on Tuesday, September 25th?

Based on information presented at recent public school board meetings, it is understood that our new board and new school administration team have fully reviewed and firmed up our existing Booster organizational/school district policies that will protect, and strengthen our schools athletic boosters fundraising business. In addition to reviewing "District Duties" and "Organization Duties" a "Concession Oversight Team" is now in place (comprised of Superintendent, CFO, and one rep from each group) to review monthly financials. This committee will look into other third party supplies and uniform pricing. Oversight team meetings will be held on September 25; October 23; and December ll, 2012.

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not impressed
#22068 Sep 23, 2012
Just Watching wrote:
Custodians were paid to unlock the facilities and get them started in the morning. They were also paid to come in after hours, lock up, and do a final cleaning on weekends. Thus they were not paid for each of the 1920 hours SYB occupied the gyms.
Fees are base upon per group of usage and is not an hourly fee according to the district policy found in section 7510.
We were being generous and applying the non-profit fees.
As everyone now knows the Springboro Youth Basketball program was a for profit organization that just recently became a non-profit. If the real fees were charged the cost per group would rightly sky rocket to \$65 per usage for Dennis/Five Points and \$50 per usage for Intermediate and Clearcreek.
Seriously, haggling over a great deal in an effort to short change our children's education is unseemly. Each dollar we fail to collect is one more the comes out of somewhere else in the budget to subsidize this organization.
So the way I read the policy it seems that the custodial fees are by the hour at least for weekends I do not know if they charge for during the week since custodians I believe do work into some of the nights and are in the buildings anyway. But again I do not know.
Using the numbers for just weekend hours only, thats quite a bit of money.I doubt you would get an employee (custodian), to just show up to open the doors, leave for a few hours and come back to clean up and close.but, who knows on this.

I do have a question though, when you say We were generous, what do you mean by that?
Also the burning question that many here seem to want an answer to is who waived the fees.
In my mind someone had to do something because policy 7510 P clearly states about the invoice being sent from school. also included are the sections of policy 7510 dealing with custodian fees etc. Logically one could conclude that if no invoice was sent, someone waived it.

Schedule of Building Use Fees
Outlined below is a schedule of fees charged to organizations using school facilities and
equipment. These charges will be reviewed annually by the Superintendent or his/her designee
and modified by the Board as necessary and appropriate.
All fees for required custodial, food service, and technical support workers and field managers,
are based on an average hourly employee wage and benefit rate.
When kitchens are rented, a minimum of one (1) food service employee will be required to work
in the kitchen. When the high school auditorium is rented, a minimum of one (1) technical support
employee will be required to work in the auditorium. The need for custodial, food service,
technical support staff and/or field managers and the assignment of fees have been delegated to
the principal or athletic director of the building for which the request is being made.

and
N. A school custodian and/or school administrator or designee must be present in the
building during the times when school facilities are used by outside groups. A
cafeteria worker must be present when the kitchens are used by outside groups. A
technical support employee must be present when the high school auditorium is used
by outside groups. Any exception to this regulation must be approved by the
Superintendent.

and
P. Full payment of fees and other charges for use of school facilities must be paid within
thirty (30) days from the date of the invoice for such charges. Late payments are
subject to penalties and finance charges.

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Day of rest
#22069 Sep 23, 2012
I thought you people took Sunday off?
Just Watching
#22070 Sep 23, 2012
WE... me, myself, and I. A small but intimate group.

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not impressed
#22071 Sep 23, 2012
Where Is Accountability wrote:
<quoted text>
So, Who Cares, If you are "not impressed?"
It sure isn't impressive of the Springboro Youth Basketball association to have operated at a profit all these years at the expense of school district taxpayers money being sucked out of our kids' classrooms while the schools gyms were "freely" abused by the SYB and the Baker/Long/Holtrey/Creager Team.
(We can all see for ourselves the SYB official protesting against "doing what's right for our school children and district taxpayers" at the September 11 school board meeting which broadcasts on Channel 21 on Sunday at 5:00 p.m.)
Turning our attention to holding our boosters organizations accountabile, does this group have their legal 501c3 status; or are they still operating outside the laws doing status quo, business as usual? Can the public expect to hear a report from this newly formed "Concession Oversight Team?" at the next public school Board of Education meeting on Tuesday, September 25th?
Based on information presented at recent public school board meetings, it is understood that our new board and new school administration team have fully reviewed and firmed up our existing Booster organizational/school district policies that will protect, and strengthen our schools athletic boosters fundraising business. In addition to reviewing "District Duties" and "Organization Duties" a "Concession Oversight Team" is now in place (comprised of Superintendent, CFO, and one rep from each group) to review monthly financials. This committee will look into other third party supplies and uniform pricing. Oversight team meetings will be held on September 25; October 23; and December ll, 2012.
wow, love the scorched earth approach of addressing another poster . Had a nice exchange going on with Just Watching and you decide to jump.
obviously you cared or you wouldn't have posted now would you?
As for trying to read too much into a screen name and attacking, think about it, would you be impressed with all that has gone on?
as for the rest of your post the exact same items have been posted over and over, the question on 501c3 has been brought up many times,as has most of your post.
I can only think that you are either new and did not read the thread or a person who previously posted now using a different name to post variations of the same theme and scorch.Or maybe someone who posted quite awhile ago.
anyway continue your scorched earth approach.
I'll stick to responding to "just watching" since they seem to offer information without the scorched earth bagge.
Have a nice day!

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Burning Question
#22072 Sep 23, 2012
not impressed wrote:
<quoted text>
So the way I read the policy it seems that the custodial fees are by the hour at least for weekends I do not know if they charge for during the week since custodians I believe do work into some of the nights and are in the buildings anyway. But again I do not know.
Using the numbers for just weekend hours only, thats quite a bit of money.I doubt you would get an employee (custodian), to just show up to open the doors, leave for a few hours and come back to clean up and close.but, who knows on this.
I do have a question though, when you say We were generous, what do you mean by that?
Also the burning question that many here seem to want an answer to is who waived the fees.
In my mind someone had to do something because policy 7510 P clearly states about the invoice being sent from school. also included are the sections of policy 7510 dealing with custodian fees etc. Logically one could conclude that if no invoice was sent, someone waived it.
Schedule of Building Use Fees
Outlined below is a schedule of fees charged to organizations using school facilities and
equipment. These charges will be reviewed annually by the Superintendent or his/her designee
and modified by the Board as necessary and appropriate.
All fees for required custodial, food service, and technical support workers and field managers,
are based on an average hourly employee wage and benefit rate.
When kitchens are rented, a minimum of one (1) food service employee will be required to work
in the kitchen. When the high school auditorium is rented, a minimum of one (1) technical support
employee will be required to work in the auditorium. The need for custodial, food service,
technical support staff and/or field managers and the assignment of fees have been delegated to
the principal or athletic director of the building for which the request is being made.
and
N. A school custodian and/or school administrator or designee must be present in the
building during the times when school facilities are used by outside groups. A
cafeteria worker must be present when the kitchens are used by outside groups. A
technical support employee must be present when the high school auditorium is used
by outside groups. Any exception to this regulation must be approved by the
Superintendent.
and
P. Full payment of fees and other charges for use of school facilities must be paid within
thirty (30) days from the date of the invoice for such charges. Late payments are
subject to penalties and finance charges.
Burning Question Now is NOT "who waived the fees."
Our former school administrators Baker/Lolli/Long waived the fees; but did not put the waiver in writing.

Now it appears that Long threw our kids under the bus again by making a deal on the Wade field project "waiving all useage fees" for fifteen years in favor of a one time donation.

The SYB official on the board meeting TV broadcast sounds like that's the kind of sweet deal he wants to "cook up" with our current superintendent. Isn't that what all his arguments are--that the SYB should be allowed to give "an offering" here and there in exchange for the superintendient's waiver of the facilities use fees?

Now the burning question is: Will our current superintendent, Mr. Todd Petrey, choose to waive the fees (no doubt in written form this time in compliance with board policy 7310) and continue doing business as usual with the self-interest Springboro Youth Basketball association; OR ...

Will Mr. Petrey make his decision in the best interest of our school children and community taxpayers?... and move forward by charging fees to all outside organizations that use our taxpayers-funded public school facilities on Saturdays, and all times other than our regularly scheduled hours during school days.
WOW
#22073 Sep 23, 2012
not impressed wrote:
<quoted text>
wow, love the scorched earth approach of addressing another poster . Had a nice exchange going on with Just Watching and you decide to jump.
obviously you cared or you wouldn't have posted now would you?
As for trying to read too much into a screen name and attacking, think about it, would you be impressed with all that has gone on?
as for the rest of your post the exact same items have been posted over and over, the question on 501c3 has been brought up many times,as has most of your post.
I can only think that you are either new and did not read the thread or a person who previously posted now using a different name to post variations of the same theme and scorch.Or maybe someone who posted quite awhile ago.
anyway continue your scorched earth approach.
I'll stick to responding to "just watching" since they seem to offer information without the scorched earth bagge.
Have a nice day!
Still not impressed by your wow (war of words).

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Worth Repeating
#22074 Sep 23, 2012
Just Watching wrote:
Springboro Youth Basketball and the 9/11 Board of Education Meeting
Channel 21
Sunday
5:00 p.m.
Watch it and decide for yourself. The board and the superintendent are trying to be nice with this guy, but he seems to view that as a sign of weakness. Listen to him explain how his program works, its long on rhetoric but rather sparse on specifics. He threatens to reduce services and raise fees if SYB is made to pay. While everyone else at the table seems to be aware that his organization has collected in excess of \$120,000, the president of SYB can't bring himself to acknowledge the fact. The only fees they have paid in the past four years was to the school's union custodial staff.
For comparison sake:
An hour of gym time at the Kingdom is \$45
A game at the Kingdom generates \$83.75 between the two teams
An hour of gym time at Dennis/Five Points costs \$15/team
An hour of gym time at Intermediate or Clearcreek costs just \$10/team
The school district is not exactly price gouging Springboro Youth Basketball.
Where Is Accountability?

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You just dont get it
#22075 Sep 23, 2012
Burning Question wrote:
<quoted text>
Burning Question Now is NOT "who waived the fees."
Our former school administrators Baker/Lolli/Long waived the fees; but did not put the waiver in writing.
Now it appears that Long threw our kids under the bus again by making a deal on the Wade field project "waiving all useage fees" for fifteen years in favor of a one time donation.
The SYB official on the board meeting TV broadcast sounds like that's the kind of sweet deal he wants to "cook up" with our current superintendent. Isn't that what all his arguments are--that the SYB should be allowed to give "an offering" here and there in exchange for the superintendient's waiver of the facilities use fees?
Now the burning question is: Will our current superintendent, Mr. Todd Petrey, choose to waive the fees (no doubt in written form this time in compliance with board policy 7310) and continue doing business as usual with the self-interest Springboro Youth Basketball association; OR ...
Will Mr. Petrey make his decision in the best interest of our school children and community taxpayers?... and move forward by charging fees to all outside organizations that use our taxpayers-funded public school facilities on Saturdays, and all times other than our regularly scheduled hours during school days.
Mr. Petrey will be making NO decision. How ignorant are you? He will do as the board tells him, its in his contract.

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Observer
#22076 Sep 23, 2012
You just dont get it wrote:
<quoted text>Mr. Petrey will be making NO decision. How ignorant are you? He will do as the board tells him, its in his contract.
Or on the other hand, he could have a mind of his own and knows what is right. And it sounds like he doesn't enjoy being blatantly scammed.

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Just Watching
#22077 Sep 23, 2012
A rough calculation of the fee schedule from Policy 7510 applied.
Each team constitutes one group.

72 Saturday teams = 36 games/ week for 8 weeks = 288 x 2 = 576 groups
72 Saturday teams have 4 practices each = 288 practices
22 Select teams play 11 games at home each = 244 games x 2 groups = 488
22 Select teams have 2 practices per week for 15 weeks = 660 practices

Practices and Games at Dennis/Five Points
322 groups for games
330 groups for practices
652 groups total for practices and games x \$15/group =\$9780
Practices and Games at Intermediate
166 groups for games
330 groups for practices
496 groups total for practices and games x \$10/group =\$4960
Total for Select
\$9780 +\$4960 =\$14,740

Practices for Saturday Rec League
192 groups for Dennis x \$15/group =\$2880
96 groups for Clearcreek x \$10/group =\$960
Games at Dennis
384 groups x \$15/group =\$5760
Games at Clearcreek
192 groups x \$10/group =\$1920
\$5760 +\$1920 =\$7680

Total for Select and Saturday Basketball
\$14,740 +\$7680 =\$22,420

\$22,420 x 4 years =\$89,680

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ridiculous
#22078 Sep 23, 2012
You just dont get it wrote:
<quoted text>Mr. Petrey will be making NO decision. How ignorant are you? He will do as the board tells him, its in his contract.
Let me guess...bitter teacher who now has to be accountable instead of having everything handed to you?

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not impressed
#22079 Sep 24, 2012
WOW wrote:
<quoted text>
Still not impressed by your wow (war of words).
like Rhett Butler said in the classic movie "Gone with the Wind"
Frankly my dear..........

But if you had noticed, Just Watching posted another very informative post on how much these fees that were waived add up to.

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