Mandating "Voluntary" Recitation of t...

Mandating "Voluntary" Recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance: Christians v. Atheists in Massachus...

There are 79 comments on the Quebec Chronicle-Telegraph story from Sep 5, 2013, titled Mandating "Voluntary" Recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance: Christians v. Atheists in Massachus.... In it, Quebec Chronicle-Telegraph reports that:

Atheists and Christians are fighting again over reciting the Pledge of Allegiance in public schools - this time in Massachusetts.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Quebec Chronicle-Telegraph.

art

London, UK

#41 Sep 6, 2013
HopeReigns wrote:
<quoted text>
Do a little research on Passports. Fred Franz and Nathan Knorr, and most like a slew of others traveled overseas. On the passports there is the Pledge of Allegiance with signatures under it.
So why is it okay to sign a document pledging allegiance but verbally it is wrong?
Correct first time. The man at the airport desk will say Nay
and they say well render unto Cesar.....
pledging allegiance only affects the poor Kids
so they don;t care about all the ribbing they are going to get
and all these rules they create seem pretty senseless anyhow
Who dreamed up the idea that celebrating a birthday is the devils work?
hMMMMMM

Farmington, UT

#42 Sep 6, 2013
art wrote:
<quoted text>
Correct first time. The man at the airport desk will say Nay
and they say well render unto Cesar.....
pledging allegiance only affects the poor Kids
so they don;t care about all the ribbing they are going to get
and all these rules they create seem pretty senseless anyhow
Who dreamed up the idea that celebrating a birthday is the devils work?
Nowhere is a children's birthday party condemned in the Bible.
The work of men who run a cult, which must break the bonds of family and society and have all bonds only be to cult leaders (men who call themselves jehovah)

“Believe & Salvation is yours”

Since: Dec 12

Location hidden

#43 Sep 6, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
First off its a different pledge.
Also its not always the pledge itself that is the problem but the ritual (nationalistic) observance of reciting of the pledge is.
An oath of allegiance is still an oath of allegiance. That is what is above the signatures....oath of allegiance to the country in which you get your passport from. AND Yes, you do have to pledge and say those words and sign that pledge in front of the clerk who gives you your passport.

So you are saying there is a difference between saying an oath or pledge of allegiance to a clerk verses an oath or pledge at school?

Where did you come up with that ball of malarky?
jace

Clinton, MD

#44 Sep 7, 2013
The worst part of being a JW kid

Totally clueless as to why
If the qt writers said the next day you could ever JW child would and still not know why

I recall a COB. Who tried to get he parents to teach their 1st and 2nd graders why and not just to say

"Cause I'm a JW" face all long and sad looking
Remnant143999

Albuquerque, NM

#45 Sep 7, 2013
What percentage of baptised jw's say the pledge of allegence, stand up for the flag, celebrate every holiday at their place of employment rather than risk losing their job? How many baptised jw's work for a company that make parts for the US war machine, and just keep their mouth shut?

“Paradise Earth”

Since: Sep 11

Location hidden

#46 Sep 7, 2013
HopeReigns wrote:
An oath of allegiance is still an oath of allegiance. That is what is above the signatures....oath of allegiance to the country in which you get your passport from. AND Yes, you do have to pledge and say those words and sign that pledge in front of the clerk who gives you your passport.
There is actually nothing wrong with agreeing to give loyalty to the state because the Bible itself instructs us that we should do this.

Some pledges, though, contain wording that a Christian could not subscribe to.
HopeReigns wrote:
So you are saying there is a difference between saying an oath or pledge of allegiance to a clerk verses an oath or pledge at school?
Where did you come up with that ball of malarky?
There is a difference between making a pledge of allegiance by stating it once in front of witnesses and taking part in a 'ritual observance to the state' by repeating it whilst standing to.
Connie

Houston, TX

#47 Sep 7, 2013
UNchained wrote:
Exactly how does saying the U.S. pledge of allegiance make a person an enemy of God?
UNITED STATES PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE:
I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America, and to the Republic for which it stands, one Nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all.
**********
Exactly how does saying the Jamaican pledge of allegiance make a person an enemy of God?
JAMAICA PLEDGE OF ALLEGIANCE
Before God and All mankind.
I pledge the love and loyalty of my heart
The wisdom and courage of my mind,
The strength and vigour of my body
in the service of my fellow citizens.
I promise to stand up for justice,
Brotherhood and Peace, to work diligently and creatively,
to think generously and honestly,
So that Jamaica may, under God,
increase in beauty, fellowship and prosperity, and play her part in advancing the welfare
of the whole human race.
that's a worthy kind of pledge for anyone to say. But I can see why pledging ones loyalty to any country that is not in and of itself wholeheartedly dedicated to doing God's will is problematic for a believer and that the bit about God is also problematic to the non-believer.
hMMMMMM

Farmington, UT

#48 Sep 7, 2013
Remnant143999 wrote:
What percentage of baptised jw's say the pledge of allegence, stand up for the flag, celebrate every holiday at their place of employment rather than risk losing their job? How many baptised jw's work for a company that make parts for the US war machine, and just keep their mouth shut?
Different rules for the adult JWs, who are actually making the choice to be part of the moronic cult.
Children are just used and abused in the Jehovah's witnesses, they are used as pawns and props to promote the agenda of the WBTS, there are no actual beliefs involved,
Sick but true
hMMMMMM

Farmington, UT

#49 Sep 7, 2013
Aneirin wrote:
<quoted text>
There is actually nothing wrong with agreeing to give loyalty to the state because the Bible itself instructs us that we should do this.
Some pledges, though, contain wording that a Christian could not subscribe to.
<quoted text>
There is a difference between making a pledge of allegiance by stating it once in front of witnesses and taking part in a 'ritual observance to the state' by repeating it whilst standing to.
But Serena playing for and standing in allegiance to, while the National Anthem is being played, the American flag is A-OK!
Because the wBTS gets a kickback from all of her endorsements she would not get had she played for no flag as Olympic athletes can and do.
Most children of Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT "baptized", yet they are forced NOT to pledge, even if it is their choice to, no matter how old they are.
hMMMMMM

Farmington, UT

#50 Sep 7, 2013
jace wrote:
The worst part of being a JW kid
Totally clueless as to why
If the qt writers said the next day you could ever JW child would and still not know why
I recall a COB. Who tried to get he parents to teach their 1st and 2nd graders why and not just to say
"Cause I'm a JW" face all long and sad looking
KInd teachers know the abuses that children of the Jehovah's Witness cult endure.
They are disgusted and are not surprised that Witness children are unhappy and act out, that is what happens when children are used to push an agenda.
Met

Bad Axe, MI

#51 Sep 8, 2013
Remnant143999 wrote:
Why are jw's against standing for the pledge of allegence or saluting the US flag? Would the wtbts disfellowship young unbaptised jw children for doing this?
Is it your business ?
Butt out
Met

Bad Axe, MI

#52 Sep 8, 2013
hMMMMMM wrote:
<quoted text>
Because the wBTS gets a kickback from all of her endorsements .
Another idiotic comment. You head the list bubba.
jackie

Southampton, PA

#53 Sep 8, 2013
hMMMMMM wrote:
<quoted text>
KInd teachers know the abuses that children of the Jehovah's Witness cult endure.
They are disgusted and are not surprised that Witness children are unhappy and act out, that is what happens when children are used to push an agenda.
If the teachers know of abuses JW children receive from other children in their schools, than it is they are responsible for putting a stop to the abuse towards those JW children while they are in their schools.
jackie

Southampton, PA

#54 Sep 8, 2013
It is the teachers who are responsible for putting a stop to the abuse, when they see it.
hMMMMMM

Farmington, UT

#55 Sep 8, 2013
jackie wrote:
It is the teachers who are responsible for putting a stop to the abuse, when they see it.
Oh puh-lease.
Unless there is SEVERE and OBVIOUS physical abuse, nothing is done.
Lots of children are abused, both physically and emotionally.
Love how Jehovah's Witnesses are always putting the onus on everyone else.
How about JW parents demanding some changes??
Oh yeah, they would be kicked out of the cult, and then have no friends, so they stay and put their children in harms way.
Teachers do the best they can.
I had some awesome ones, thank God.
They taught me what actually morality was, unlike the freaks at the KIngdumb Halls!
jackie

Southampton, PA

#56 Sep 8, 2013
hMMMMMM wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh puh-lease.
Unless there is SEVERE and OBVIOUS physical abuse, nothing is done.
Lots of children are abused, both physically and emotionally.
Love how Jehovah's Witnesses are always putting the onus on everyone else.
How about JW parents demanding some changes??
Oh yeah, they would be kicked out of the cult, and then have no friends, so they stay and put their children in harms way.
Teachers do the best they can.
I had some awesome ones, thank God.
They taught me what actually morality was, unlike the freaks at the KIngdumb Halls!
Please nothing those JW children have a right to an education, without being abused by other children because their beliefs are against pledge's to a flag and country.
So you wanted to Pledge to a flag and country, you do not get to speak for all the JW children.

JW's will not change and allow their children to pledge a flag and country when they know it is wrong in Jehovah God' eyes. Not for you, not for anyone, and they have a right to the way they raise "Their" children.

The school system has to do something to protect the rights of those JW children on their stand towards their beliefs.

It is not abuse to raise your children the way that Jehovah God wants you to.
Remnant143999

Albuquerque, NM

#57 Sep 8, 2013
When we were kids one of my close jw friends was jumped and had his teeth knocked out for not saying the pledge of allegence, we weren't even old enough to know better. It was our parents that forced us to not say the pledge of allegence or stand up for the national anthem.We were abused all the years we were in school by fellow classmates. Then when the 1966 draft call came the wtbts threw us under the bus,all we needed was for the elders to claim we were ministers in order to recieve a ministerial exemption,but the elders refused.Some of us went to jail others that took alternative service were df'd. We were brave enough to defend our beliefs and the elders were a bunch of cowards!
hMMMMMM

Farmington, UT

#58 Sep 8, 2013
jackie wrote:
<quoted text>
Please nothing those JW children have a right to an education, without being abused by other children because their beliefs are against pledge's to a flag and country.
So you wanted to Pledge to a flag and country, you do not get to speak for all the JW children.
JW's will not change and allow their children to pledge a flag and country when they know it is wrong in Jehovah God' eyes. Not for you, not for anyone, and they have a right to the way they raise "Their" children.
The school system has to do something to protect the rights of those JW children on their stand towards their beliefs.
It is not abuse to raise your children the way that Jehovah God wants you to.
What a lunatic.
Just because you think some men in New York are your god, all you prove is that you are nuts.
I can speak for JW kids, because I was one.
We ALL would have saluted the flag, if given the choice.
Granted some of the special needs JW kids would not have, but I doubt the other students in their particular classrooms would have noticed one way or another.
Same with field service, no kid that is old enough to get picked on, wants to be schlepping magazined selling their cult agenda every Saturday morning!
Their parents force them to.
Jehovah'sWitness parents use emotional and usually physical abuse to force their children to do what their cult leaders tell them to.
It has nothing to with "God"
hMMMMMM

Farmington, UT

#59 Sep 8, 2013
Remnant143999 wrote:
When we were kids one of my close jw friends was jumped and had his teeth knocked out for not saying the pledge of allegence, we weren't even old enough to know better. It was our parents that forced us to not say the pledge of allegence or stand up for the national anthem.We were abused all the years we were in school by fellow classmates. Then when the 1966 draft call came the wtbts threw us under the bus,all we needed was for the elders to claim we were ministers in order to recieve a ministerial exemption,but the elders refused.Some of us went to jail others that took alternative service were df'd. We were brave enough to defend our beliefs and the elders were a bunch of cowards!
Yeah, now Jehovah's Witnesses on here all try and pretend none of that happened.
Just one giant brainfart is what they all get on the subject.

Nothing but abuse.
hMMMMMM

Farmington, UT

#60 Sep 8, 2013
Remnant143999 wrote:
<quoted text>I asked if an UN-BAPTISED child would be disfellowshipped fo reciting the US pledge of allegence? Where is it written in jw publications that one would be disfellowshiped for voting,or joining the US Armed Forces?
Dis-associated.
Of course not Serena Williams, but they will do it to any child who questions or refuses complete submission to every command of the leaders of the Jehovah's Witness cult, the governing body.

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