Pisgah State Park plan sparks concern

Pisgah State Park plan sparks concern

There are 36 comments on the Brattleboro Reformer story from Jul 29, 2010, titled Pisgah State Park plan sparks concern. In it, Brattleboro Reformer reports that:

In what has become almost a daily afternoon trek, Jeffrey Scott stops in the trail head parking lot at Kilburn Pond right in the middle of Pisgah State Park.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Brattleboro Reformer.

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Brian

Williston, VT

#1 Jul 29, 2010
As usual, hikers are the most selfish users of any public land. Any other people that use the land are too loud, will do damage or just aren't "natural enough" for the stinkin' hikers. It's public land, open to all- but only if they use it "MY" way, right?
d thomson

Bellows Falls, VT

#2 Jul 29, 2010
all just opinions of people who have on type of sport or recreation trying to rule everyone , theres so many woods and places to hike and ride all kinds of machines and animals in new england, most of the trails hikers and bikers use were made by and maintained by jeeps motorcycles and 4 wheelers but now the walkers or naturalist want to take them over, atv and dirt bikes dont hurt the woods and in fact the animals are more afraid of someone walking around being sneaky and quiet for this is what a predator does, there should be enforcment on people who ride or anyone for that matter that litters or destroys the land they use,
recreational vehicles is a great family sport and needs to be protected as well and these people have just as many rights as anyone to use this land, my feeling is if you dont want to share then go out and buy your own chunk of land and do with it what you like.
jway

Tuscumbia, AL

#3 Jul 29, 2010
Selfish hikers again. They wont it only for there benefit. It belongs to all. Throw his notes on the ground the get him for littering.
BLocal

Salisbury, VT

#4 Jul 29, 2010
Not sure what article any of you are reading. Not the one printed here obviously.

I don't see anywhere that "Hikers" are trying to "take over" Pisgah trails. The problem here is the state calling the shots on a park that they've never wanted to maintain to begin with. They want to take over buildings that the Friends of Pisgah moved and built with the money they raised on
their own without state help.

Just as an aside - hikers do maintain trails all over the country not just in Pisgah and the first trails created in the country were made by hikers -there were no atv's, dirt bikes etc. when the trail system was created - just people's feet. Ever heard of the Appalachian trail??

Around here the hikers and snowmobilers maintain the trails - the atv'ers and dirtbikers rip them up and then cry that the "hikers" don't want them in the woods. Guess what - I've heard a lot more complaints from snowmobilers than from hikers about what atv'ers do to the trails and then don't fix.
Someone Who Thinks

East Dover, VT

#5 Jul 29, 2010
d thompson, I honestly wanted to count exactly how many words you put into your first "sentence"' but I lost count at 50 or so. Feedback like yours only furthers a reader's impression that you are, let us say, several rungs lower of the level on the ladder where most of us would consider someone a normal,intelligent, and fully functioning person.
So this is public land that I should be able to use as I "wont" (thanks jway!)? Well, what if I want to be able to heat my house more affordably this coming winter? Is it okay if I head into Pisgah and cut down a few hundred trees? It IS after all public land.
The thought that motorized vehicles frighten the animals less than a person hiking along a trail, if even possibly accurate, only shows the sad fact that these woodland creatures have actually become use to hearing that kind of grating noise pollution.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#6 Jul 29, 2010
If you want to be a noisy ATV-riding redneck, we have a place for you. It's called New Hampshire.

Oh, snap!
Just curious

Little Rock, AR

#7 Jul 29, 2010
BLocal wrote:
Not sure what article any of you are reading. Not the one printed here obviously.
I don't see anywhere that "Hikers" are trying to "take over" Pisgah trails. The problem here is the state calling the shots on a park that they've never wanted to maintain to begin with. They want to take over buildings that the Friends of Pisgah moved and built with the money they raised on
their own without state help.
Just as an aside - hikers do maintain trails all over the country not just in Pisgah and the first trails created in the country were made by hikers -there were no atv's, dirt bikes etc. when the trail system was created - just people's feet. Ever heard of the Appalachian trail??
Around here the hikers and snowmobilers maintain the trails - the atv'ers and dirtbikers rip them up and then cry that the "hikers" don't want them in the woods. Guess what - I've heard a lot more complaints from snowmobilers than from hikers about what atv'ers do to the trails and then don't fix.
And the Congregation said, "Amen!"
Just curious

Little Rock, AR

#8 Jul 29, 2010
Someone Who Thinks wrote:
d thompson, I honestly wanted to count exactly how many words you put into your first "sentence"' but I lost count at 50 or so. Feedback like yours only furthers a reader's impression that you are, let us say, several rungs lower of the level on the ladder where most of us would consider someone a normal,intelligent, and fully functioning person.
So this is public land that I should be able to use as I "wont" (thanks jway!)? Well, what if I want to be able to heat my house more affordably this coming winter? Is it okay if I head into Pisgah and cut down a few hundred trees? It IS after all public land.
The thought that motorized vehicles frighten the animals less than a person hiking along a trail, if even possibly accurate, only shows the sad fact that these woodland creatures have actually become use to hearing that kind of grating noise pollution.
I see deer, moose and many birds while out riding my nice, quiet four-stroke snowmobile. The reason animals are not spooked by the machine has less to do with noise, and more to do with the scent of the machine masking human scent, I think. A side benefit to all of our woodland friends is the trail system for snowmobiles offers paths for critters to walk on without being belly-deep in snow (on the occasion when we have a good winter!)
Just curious

Little Rock, AR

#9 Jul 29, 2010
Ben Long wrote:
If you want to be a noisy ATV-riding redneck, we have a place for you. It's called New Hampshire.
Oh, snap!
Your ignorant comment leads me to believe that you live outside of New Hampshire - at least border screening works somewhere!

Have you ever ridden on an ATV? Are you aware that some people are actually able to motor through the woods without announcing their presence to everyone within a 1/4 mile radius? While I use my ATV mostly for hauling firewood, I do enjoy the odd foray into the woods for pleasure. Ride gentle and share the trails should be watchwords for everyone who uses the trails provided.
d thomson

Bellows Falls, VT

#10 Jul 29, 2010
is all about ruling the roost here anyways and using land that isnt yours,we all pay for public land or federal land and all should be able to share it, but there does need to be law enforcement to and stiff penaltys for abuse.
d thomson

Bellows Falls, VT

#11 Jul 29, 2010
is all about ruling the roost here anyways and using land that isnt yours,we all pay for public land or federal land and all should be able to share it, but there does need to be law enforcement to and stiff penaltys for abuse.
Facts or myths. Which one is your guiding light?
In Vermont today the opportunity to experience the "peace and quiet" that Maya Kearn (letter to the editor, 4/1-1/06, "ATVs don't belong in Vermont forest") seeks from additional Wilderness is plentiful and readily available. Consider if you will that the State of Vermont owns over 400,000 acres; "Conservation Inc." owns about the same and the Green Mountain National Forest another 400,000 acres.
Additionally, consider all of the town forests, community paths and recreation trails, rail to trail opportunities and so on. Add to that the Long Trail; its 275 miles of main trails and 175 miles of side trails offer plenty of opportunity, as well, for Maya. And then there is the 150 miles of the Appalachian Trail in Vermont to add to the mix ... hardly seems like a constrained recreational opportunity, now, does it? None of the above mentioned resources allow me to recreate in my preferred manner, aboard a trail bike or ATV.
In addition to the above mentioned abundant opportunities, the Forest Service reports that less than 1.5 percent of the people who visit the GMNF seek a wilderness experience. It seems a bit elitist to tie up 400,000 acres of the National Forest for the leisure of such a small number of people.
A couple of additional points that I think are important to make. The "true" Vermont wilderness that Maya refers to is a total and complete myth, born mostly out of ignorance of Vermont's nearly 400-year history. It is a myth not unlike the "Bob Newhart" innkeeper myth popular some years ago. Both myths are equally endearing and unequivocally false.
Vermont is a working landscape with a rich history of land use for productive ends. The "sanctuary" that Maya seeks is readily available, even within a short bicycle ride from her front door. However for folks like me, I can travel to New Hampshire to recreate on a public trail system, or venture to Ohio to recreate in a Wayne National Forest. This is hardly an option for a guy that works three or four jobs in order to keep the lights on.
Lastly, I will point out that the wildlife that Maya says is so frightened by motorized use is another weak point in her argument. The fact is wildlife, of all varieties, is more horrified by and stimulated in to a flight response by hikers who move both quietly and slowly. This has the result of increasing the duration of encounter and does not provide the readily identifiable approach of a motorized traveler, who elicits little flight response. This scientific fact is well represented in the peer-reviewed literature. The problem with counterintuitive science is that is does not have the coffer-filling effect that a good fear-mongering campaign has proven, over time, to have.
DENNIS THOMSON
d thomson

Bellows Falls, VT

#12 Jul 29, 2010
last post is very much the same for new hampshire
jway

Tuscumbia, AL

#13 Jul 29, 2010
For some who thinks. It seems you are a literary genius, counting words checking if a t is crossed etc while beating your chest and missing the point!We all cant or don't wont to be dictionary worms. You should be careful, so high on that ladder some sob might saw the rungs off. Now that said and done we used to be able to cut fire wood in Pisgah after the foresters marked the trees helping to stimulate growth and helping all wildlife. Ask any logger if deer come to there work sight. We watched 4 deer come to watch a road crew cutting brush last yr, they didn't even know they were there. They could have trails for every one, it is great family fun. Some states make good money catering to 4 wheelers while still protecting the environment! I bet ya can pick this apart. thanks
Linda Brown Hope MI

Cedar, MI

#14 Jul 29, 2010
I have fond memories of 4-wheeling in the park and camping out and we were not the ones that caused the state to shut down all vehicle trails so there went the good times and it sucked not being able to 4-wheel ever again. While I would just like to see the park stay the way it is with no welcome center or whatnot, but I think that 4-wheeling should be allowed again, why should hikers be the only ones to experience the beauty of the park? When I camped out there we did not even throw cig butts on the ground, did not leave unattended fires and had in place trash cans, we respected the park and all that nature has to give so please, leave Pisgah the way it is, unspoiled.

Since: Jul 10

Brattleboro, VT

#15 Jul 29, 2010
If you want to drive vehicles, why not do it on the roads? Why do we need traffic even inside forest parks? There's a place for everything, and there are a lot more roads than forest trails. The lard-butts sitting on cushions and burning fossil fuels just want to take over everywhere, not leave anything for folks using the woods under their own power.
d thomson

Bellows Falls, VT

#16 Jul 29, 2010
anyone who is into texting or blogs know that we tend to type like we would talk is why it looks so bad, most people with half a brain and respect get it , the ones who put others down for all kinds of things are usually the ones trying to take over the woods for themselfs, a very select few of them that is
d thomson

Bellows Falls, VT

#17 Jul 29, 2010
New Clear Waste wrote:
If you want to drive vehicles, why not do it on the roads? Why do we need traffic even inside forest parks? There's a place for everything, and there are a lot more roads than forest trails. The lard-butts sitting on cushions and burning fossil fuels just want to take over everywhere, not leave anything for folks using the woods under their own power.
oh i am sure most that hike use more then most of us redneck type that like to ride in the woods, do a little history check on some of the siera clubs higher ups and see what they drive where they live and how many airplane trips they take,
d thomson

Bellows Falls, VT

#18 Jul 29, 2010
and who usually are the ones going out to rescue the hikers who get into trouble?
or help fight fires ect
theres room for everyone out there and like i said before if you dont want to share whether your a hiker or a biker or atv person then get your own chunk of land, or take over all our shares in the taxes for the property
Someone Who Thinks

East Dover, VT

#19 Jul 30, 2010
jway wrote:
For some who thinks. It seems you are a literary genius, counting words checking if a t is crossed etc while beating your chest and missing the point!We all cant or don't wont to be dictionary worms. You should be careful, so high on that ladder some sob might saw the rungs off. Now that said and done we used to be able to cut fire wood in Pisgah after the foresters marked the trees helping to stimulate growth and helping all wildlife. Ask any logger if deer come to there work sight. We watched 4 deer come to watch a road crew cutting brush last yr, they didn't even know they were there. They could have trails for every one, it is great family fun. Some states make good money catering to 4 wheelers while still protecting the environment! I bet ya can pick this apart. thanks
Oh, where to begin? I am certainly not a literary genius. I'm just someone who happens to believe that writing anything without any concern for grammar or spelling in an endless sentence, tells me at least one of two things; that the person writing is simply ignorant or is just on a knee-jerk reaction rant.

jway: "I bet ya can pick this apart. thanks". No, thank YOU for your statement of confidence in my intelligence and writing ability. I wish that I could say "right back atcha", but I cannot. My comment about cutting down trees in Pisgah was to make a simple and obvious point, not a request for a history lesson. As far as states making money catering to 4 wheelers; there are also states making "good money" on gambling, legalized prostitution, licensing people to shoot animals from helicopters, and letting oil companies drill in the Gulf. I'm sure when the US gave BP permission that BP assured them that they "were still protecting the environment". If I had more time, I could probably go on for hours; but I already feel bad about myself for wasting my own valuable time responding to someone that will never understand what I am trying to point out. Tilting at windmills.

Since: Apr 09

Location hidden

#20 Jul 30, 2010
Just curious wrote:
<quoted text>
Your ignorant comment leads me to believe that you live outside of New Hampshire - at least border screening works somewhere!
Have you ever ridden on an ATV? Are you aware that some people are actually able to motor through the woods without announcing their presence to everyone within a 1/4 mile radius? While I use my ATV mostly for hauling firewood, I do enjoy the odd foray into the woods for pleasure. Ride gentle and share the trails should be watchwords for everyone who uses the trails provided.
My "ignorant comment" was an obvious attempt at eliciting a response such as yours.

And while I'm sure you're just the perfect model of an ATV woodsman, the beer cans and torn up trails would seem to suggest that not all ATV operators conform to the same scrupulous commitment to responsibility.

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