Smugglers' barbed wire traps target U...

Smugglers' barbed wire traps target US agents

There are 194 comments on the El Paso Times story from Mar 29, 2010, titled Smugglers' barbed wire traps target US agents. In it, El Paso Times reports that:

Drug smugglers have apparently set "booby traps" for U.S. Border Patrol agents on roads along the border near Deming, agency officials said Monday.

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mole

Portland, OR

#191 Apr 1, 2010
common_sense wrote:
<quoted text>
sorry I should have been more clear with you (I hope it would have made a difference - I would hate to believe you were being willfully ignorant)
those 18,000 deaths came from a Mexican official who attributed them to drug war violence... I think what is it... 7,000 Mexicans have died this year so far? I mean aside from the huge spikes in deaths coinciding at the same time Caldera decided to send the army in... are you trying to tell me 7,000 murders (SO FAR) this year is an 'average' year for mexico??? yeah.. no.
Legalizing pot.. will not shut down the cartels.. but it will have a significant effect. It is estimated that cartels make approximately 60% of their profits from cannabis alone.
If legal cannabis replaces smuggled Mexican cannabis... they will be unable to increase demand in other drugs to replace cannabis.
You can force demand to rise, even if you glut the market with extra supply... You might take an economics class to confirm this concept.. but I digress.
There is a civil war going on in mexico ever since calderon took on the cartels and broke the status quo that existed since 82. The cartel killed a a presidental hopeful who ran on a stop the cartels platform. They killed an Archbishop just before that for telling the people not to work for the cartels. Shutting the border will do more harm than anything else short of U.S. military action. Demand all you want it doesnt do anything with no supply .
mole

Portland, OR

#192 Apr 1, 2010
Bedrock Bob wrote:
<quoted text>

It is a conundrum. Things are in flux. What was once illegal is now quasi legal, or not, depending on the way you look at it.
This right here is the biggest part of the problem. The way the laws are now, no state accepts anothers card. I live on the Washington-Oregon border and while Im legal here, 500 yards south and its jail time. Some state most likely cali will give it a shot on the ballot and then the rest of the nation will sit back and sees what happens there. The laws here are more generous than the Netherlands where the "cafes" are only allowed 500 grams. Here we get a pound and a half along with 15 plants. Personaly I think that that is too much.
S Rubicon

Lancaster, PA

#193 Apr 3, 2010
Unless & until America gets serious about properly securing her porous southern border, the situation will continue to deteriorate. Smugglers who bring in illegal drugs or illegal aliens, or whatever contraband they are pushing, will use any & every means they can to get their way. And those methods include killing Border Patrol Agents. We need not kill, but we do need to properly secure the border with a two layered fencing system & patrol road, along w/ the other electronic means available to us, plus a huge increase in the number of Border Patrol Agents &/or the National Guard.
Its time we told those who say it will look bad, that the drugs, illegal aliens taking jobs, and the deaths, look much worse to those who are affected by those problems that go along with a porous under-protected border.
The issue is not race. The issue is not greed or selfishness. The issue is the protection of American citizens and our national security. Waiting for the inevitable catastrophe is insane. So too is "another" amnesty as all past amnesties have only led to even larger groups of illegal aliens sneaking in, expecting even another amnesty & the benefits they get with such declarations.
I doubt serious efforts will be made. After all these years & now new talk of an amnesty, I am now convinced there are people in power in America who are benefiting from whatever is crossing that border, either directly or indirectly. So, perhaps we need to ask our politicians how much we have to pay them on the side, so they will support our desire for our national border to be secured?
SPEARCHUCKER EL MAYATE

Killeen, TX

#194 Apr 6, 2010
mole wrote:
<quoted text>Spear long time since we talked. Hows the wife and daughters? good I hope. cs is blaming the U.S. for all of mexicos problem with them killing each other because of their greed. Funny huh, well take care and let this cs know the truth about the cartels.
true the only people who bring arms into mexico they are not black,white,asian,THEY ARE MEXICAN just to make money they kill other mexicans like the way arabs kill arabs we need an immigration policy such as north korea you enter illegaly you go to prison and do hard labor.
Gunslinger915

El Paso, TX

#195 Apr 6, 2010
S Rubicon wrote:
Unless & until America gets serious about properly securing her porous southern border, the situation will continue to deteriorate. Smugglers who bring in illegal drugs or illegal aliens, or whatever contraband they are pushing, will use any & every means they can to get their way. And those methods include killing Border Patrol Agents. We need not kill, but we do need to properly secure the border with a two layered fencing system & patrol road, along w/ the other electronic means available to us, plus a huge increase in the number of Border Patrol Agents &/or the National Guard.
Its time we told those who say it will look bad, that the drugs, illegal aliens taking jobs, and the deaths, look much worse to those who are affected by those problems that go along with a porous under-protected border.
The issue is not race. The issue is not greed or selfishness. The issue is the protection of American citizens and our national security. Waiting for the inevitable catastrophe is insane. So too is "another" amnesty as all past amnesties have only led to even larger groups of illegal aliens sneaking in, expecting even another amnesty & the benefits they get with such declarations.
I doubt serious efforts will be made. After all these years & now new talk of an amnesty, I am now convinced there are people in power in America who are benefiting from whatever is crossing that border, either directly or indirectly. So, perhaps we need to ask our politicians how much we have to pay them on the side, so they will support our desire for our national border to be secured?
Don't know if you are actually in Pennsylvania, but even if you are, you are pretty smart about all this border stuff. "Offense, Defense", should be pretty much as you describe it. Im just saying.......
Gun Control

United States

#196 Apr 12, 2010
OutInTheWestTexas Town wrote:
<quoted text>
Can you name one war that has been moral, noncatastrophic and effective?
You (sheep)appear to be crying wolf (in a wolf den.)
Walk this idea of yours all the way through, if there is an "unquenchable thirst" for these illegal substances and you now have supplied the thirsty with their drink of choice, what happens when everyone gets tired of drinking the same flavor?
Oh I know your answer, come up with a diffrent flavor to satisfy the mob. Next thing you know you will be screaming for the next illegal drug of choice to be legalized.
Where will that lead to?
Think of it in these terms. When you attempt to change a predator to prey, then a bigger, badder predator will step in and nature will balance itself once more. Problem is the new bigger predator will be feasting on all of us!
Share liberty with a man and he will be free. Sell the man a joint and you've just made him a slave to the addiction!
So which will it be are you a person how believes in enslaving, or are you a person who is a liberator?
It isn't only that, what will the thirsty do for another drink? Guess what??? Commit crimes! But what does the druggie care about that for? What does the seller/pusher care about that for? What does the politician who got paid off (include others as applicable) care about that for? It is your family and generations afterwards that because of YOU made it seem to THEM that doing drugs is OK, since it is now legal. How many other nations including Mexico are suffering because of this? Why should we follow in their footsteps? I don't care how many people/sheeple do something wrong (how about the number busted for shoplifting or speeding) it does not mandate to make it LEGAL!! You fools.
OutInTheWestTexa s Town

United States

#197 Apr 14, 2010
common_sense wrote:
<quoted text>
...If cannabis is legalized the price will drop dramatically. You see, much of the price is because of its legal status and the risk that people take to supply the black market. Also, when legalized, it can be mass produced on farm fields.. so with the laws of supply demand and removal of legal stigma.. PRICE WILL FALL.
Did you have any REAL arguments? I'll wait patiently for your "light bulb" moment.
The problem with your argument is that the illegal drugs ARE currently being mass produced at a set rate for consumption from the supplier to the customer. Do you really believe that this is a mom and pop operation? As a businessman do you think that you would sell your product for less than the going rate? No, you would be out of business in a heartbeat, that is the nature of supply and demand and basic economy 101.
Why would anyone be so naive about this? Do you think that all things consumed by us and the rest of the world is produced and sold below cost? Those people are no longer in business because they failed. Next thing you know the "pot farmers" will be at the governments doors asking for subsities to continue to produce a product that cannot be sold for a reasonable profit.
Then who will be paying for these drugs? You and I will along with the rest of the tax paying citizens, and the cost will continue to rise.
Gunslinger915

El Paso, TX

#198 Apr 14, 2010
OutInTheWestTexas Town wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem with your argument is that the illegal drugs ARE currently being mass produced at a set rate for consumption from the supplier to the customer. Do you really believe that this is a mom and pop operation? As a businessman do you think that you would sell your product for less than the going rate? No, you would be out of business in a heartbeat, that is the nature of supply and demand and basic economy 101.
Why would anyone be so naive about this? Do you think that all things consumed by us and the rest of the world is produced and sold below cost? Those people are no longer in business because they failed. Next thing you know the "pot farmers" will be at the governments doors asking for subsities to continue to produce a product that cannot be sold for a reasonable profit.
Then who will be paying for these drugs? You and I will along with the rest of the tax paying citizens, and the cost will continue to rise.
I understand exactly what you said. The thing is all these ignorant "legalize dope" crowd, have no understanding, comprehension of ANY of this. They just have NO idea how the **it works. They actually believe that IF they get dope legalized, the cartels, independents are simply going to fold up the tents, put down the guns, have all the mansions forclosed, get outta the bizness and maybe start selling t-shirts down on South El Paso Street just to survive. Even IF the dope is legalized by the Government and approved, taxed and sold, their will be a PRICE to be had for it. IF the Government approved dope is sold in "drug stores" for $300 per "K", then the cartels and independents are going to UNDER CUT the Government price and sell the "K" for $250-299, out of the stash house, car trunk, down the alley. After all, the dope is LEGAL. Why exactly would they be outta bizness, this MULTI_BILLION $$$ bizness they have now?? They will have a "market share" of whatever bizness their is. Now they may have to kill a few people, chop of some heads, fire bomb some "drug stores", etc. But the thing is, it will be all about "market share", profits, sales territories and WHO controls WHAT. It seems thats exactly what they have now. Again, it's just impossible to explain this to all the pro-dopers. They have NO clue what this is about and simply want to legalize dope for their own benefit. They just don't know what they don't know and they are incapable of understanding the realities.
Bedrock Bob

Cerrillos, NM

#199 Apr 14, 2010
Gunslinger915 wrote:
<quoted text> I understand exactly what you said. The thing is all these ignorant "legalize dope" crowd, have no understanding, comprehension of ANY of this. They just have NO idea how the **it works. They actually believe that IF they get dope legalized, the cartels, independents are simply going to fold up the tents, put down the guns, have all the mansions forclosed, get outta the bizness and maybe start selling t-shirts down on South El Paso Street just to survive. Even IF the dope is legalized by the Government and approved, taxed and sold, their will be a PRICE to be had for it. IF the Government approved dope is sold in "drug stores" for $300 per "K", then the cartels and independents are going to UNDER CUT the Government price and sell the "K" for $250-299, out of the stash house, car trunk, down the alley. After all, the dope is LEGAL. Why exactly would they be outta bizness, this MULTI_BILLION $$$ bizness they have now?? They will have a "market share" of whatever bizness their is. Now they may have to kill a few people, chop of some heads, fire bomb some "drug stores", etc. But the thing is, it will be all about "market share", profits, sales territories and WHO controls WHAT. It seems thats exactly what they have now. Again, it's just impossible to explain this to all the pro-dopers. They have NO clue what this is about and simply want to legalize dope for their own benefit. They just don't know what they don't know and they are incapable of understanding the realities.
Cut and paste this tired old argument AGAIN? This makes absolutely no sense in teh world of supply and demand. Again, Mexican pot is already only 10% the price of American grown pot and can not even command 50% of the market. Get real. Anyone that understands basic economics can shoot big holes in this.

By your reasoning if there was a 1974 Ford Pinto for sale for $200 then it would cause all $50K Mercedes Benz convertibles to be left on the lot.

I have ten apples, three have been stepped on, taste lik echit, and are wormy. They sell for 10 cents each. The other sevena re the finest apples in the world and cost $1 each. You are saying that the wormy apples will command the market?

Now, I ahev a bag of shitty pot that was suggled in a fuel tank and smells like diesel. It will give you a headache for an hour and it sells for $35. In my other hand I have sinsemilla grown in Santa Fe that smells like God's vagina and will keep you high for 12 hours. It costs $100 for the same amount. Which will you buy?

By your reasoning ther eare more cheap Wal Mart pants sold than Jordache jeans. By your reasoning there is no market for French Merlot...Mad Dog is the brand people want.

You are crazy if you beleive this logic works for anyone. Americans produce the best and demand the best. In cars, booze and drugs. Get real. Trash mexican pot is only sold in the ghetto and to our children. This is the only arket. American homegrown commands 70% of the market and it has to be grown covertly at very high cost. Legaliation brings the price down drastically and this has been proven in California, Montana, New mexico and everywhere else it has been made available.
Bedrock Bob

Cerrillos, NM

#200 Apr 14, 2010
And once again your wild assumption is that by legalizing marijuana that the cartels business would be legalized. THIS IS AN OVERT LIE. No one has ever suggested legalizing smuggling. The cartels business will always be illegal and it will always give you an opportunity to make a few bucks on the side by allowing a load across.

Hey, it is YOUR job to protect the borders. You have not done that! What I stuff my pipe with is none of your business and it does not affect your job at all.
Gunslinger915

El Paso, TX

#201 Apr 14, 2010
Bedrock Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Cut and paste this tired old argument AGAIN? This makes absolutely no sense in teh world of supply and demand. Again, Mexican pot is already only 10% the price of American grown pot and can not even command 50% of the market. Get real. Anyone that understands basic economics can shoot big holes in this.
By your reasoning if there was a 1974 Ford Pinto for sale for $200 then it would cause all $50K Mercedes Benz convertibles to be left on the lot.
I have ten apples, three have been stepped on, taste lik echit, and are wormy. They sell for 10 cents each. The other sevena re the finest apples in the world and cost $1 each. You are saying that the wormy apples will command the market?
Now, I ahev a bag of shitty pot that was suggled in a fuel tank and smells like diesel. It will give you a headache for an hour and it sells for $35. In my other hand I have sinsemilla grown in Santa Fe that smells like God's vagina and will keep you high for 12 hours. It costs $100 for the same amount. Which will you buy?
By your reasoning ther eare more cheap Wal Mart pants sold than Jordache jeans. By your reasoning there is no market for French Merlot...Mad Dog is the brand people want.
You are crazy if you beleive this logic works for anyone. Americans produce the best and demand the best. In cars, booze and drugs. Get real. Trash mexican pot is only sold in the ghetto and to our children. This is the only arket. American homegrown commands 70% of the market and it has to be grown covertly at very high cost. Legaliation brings the price down drastically and this has been proven in California, Montana, New mexico and everywhere else it has been made available.
I've always got the same FACTS ***wipe. Where are your FACTS?? Just keep repeating the same old "legalize dope" **it all the time. Give it a rest and stfu. The ONLY facts you ever have is just ignorant **it you make up because you want to use drugs without getting arrested. Ain't that the whole story ***wipe???? " Oh, I got to have my "medical marijuana, just got to have it. The pain, oh the pain". I believe, if memory serves me right, they call that "drug addiction" as in JUNKIE.:):):)
Bedrock Bob

Cerrillos, NM

#202 Apr 15, 2010
Gunslinger915 wrote:
<quoted text> I've always got the same FACTS ***wipe. Where are your FACTS?? Just keep repeating the same old "legalize dope" **it all the time. Give it a rest and stfu. The ONLY facts you ever have is just ignorant **it you make up because you want to use drugs without getting arrested. Ain't that the whole story ***wipe???? " Oh, I got to have my "medical marijuana, just got to have it. The pain, oh the pain". I believe, if memory serves me right, they call that "drug addiction" as in JUNKIE.:):):)
Well, marijuana is not addicting, so you dont even know the basics of the drug you are talking about. And you have not posted a "fact" yet, just curses and rants and hate. Not one single "fact" to back up anyhting, and your logic is infantile. Your argument how the cartels are going to be able to grow, smuggle, avaid the law, undersell and control the legal market while avoiding getting caught by the law is ridiculous. They cant do it now even when they are being protected at the border and American growers are being targeted.

We all know the law is fairly ineffective at catching drug dealers, but your idea is simply fantasy. When American growers are allowed to produce within reasonable limits the demand for cartel pot goes through the floor, as has been shown in all areas where Americans have been allowed to grow. For the past ten months this has been reality in many areas of the ountry and it is workign flawlessly. Demand for Mexican pot is near nothing and American growers sell out the day their product is ready. Prices for marijuana have fallen and are stil plumeting. What was $450 per ounce in now near $300 adn Mecican pot has gone from $65 per ounce to $50 per ounce in most localities. This is because LEGAL AMERICAM MARIJUANA HAS BEEN ALLOWED TO COMPETE.

America could easily command 100% of the marijuana market if they were allowed to. It is a $50 billion dollar a year industry for the cartels and America captures more and more of that business every day. Most of Americas business is done in dispensaries where a medical card and an ID is required for purchase. Most of the cartels business is in our schools and parks selling to kids.

Why dont you guys stick to busting the bad guys and leave the legal American producers alone? This is the design of the law byt much law enforcemetn is purposely confounding the plan becasue of sour grapes. They just cant stand the fact that America is coming around to the realization that you are simply suporting illegal activities and taking a multi billon dollar industry and giving it to organized crime to poison our kids.

If adults were allowed to use responsibly it would empower the law to be effective rather than be fighting the wil of the people as well as well funded organized crime.

Geesh Gunslinger, you are loosing the war! Why is law enforcement so intent on carrying out this failure? It seems that we shoud pick our battles and do what is best for the American people rather than what empowers corruption and organized crime.
Gunslinger915

El Paso, TX

#203 Apr 15, 2010
Bedrock Bob wrote:
<quoted text>
Well, marijuana is not addicting, so you dont even know the basics of the drug you are talking about. And you have not posted a "fact" yet, just curses and rants and hate. Not one single "fact" to back up anyhting, and your logic is infantile. Your argument how the cartels are going to be able to grow, smuggle, avaid the law, undersell and control the legal market while avoiding getting caught by the law is ridiculous. They cant do it now even when they are being protected at the border and American growers are being targeted.
We all know the law is fairly ineffective at catching drug dealers, but your idea is simply fantasy. When American growers are allowed to produce within reasonable limits the demand for cartel pot goes through the floor, as has been shown in all areas where Americans have been allowed to grow. For the past ten months this has been reality in many areas of the ountry and it is workign flawlessly. Demand for Mexican pot is near nothing and American growers sell out the day their product is ready. Prices for marijuana have fallen and are stil plumeting. What was $450 per ounce in now near $300 adn Mecican pot has gone from $65 per ounce to $50 per ounce in most localities. This is because LEGAL AMERICAM MARIJUANA HAS BEEN ALLOWED TO COMPETE.
America could easily command 100% of the marijuana market if they were allowed to. It is a $50 billion dollar a year industry for the cartels and America captures more and more of that business every day. Most of Americas business is done in dispensaries where a medical card and an ID is required for purchase. Most of the cartels business is in our schools and parks selling to kids.
Why dont you guys stick to busting the bad guys and leave the legal American producers alone? This is the design of the law byt much law enforcemetn is purposely confounding the plan becasue of sour grapes. They just cant stand the fact that America is coming around to the realization that you are simply suporting illegal activities and taking a multi billon dollar industry and giving it to organized crime to poison our kids.
If adults were allowed to use responsibly it would empower the law to be effective rather than be fighting the wil of the people as well as well funded organized crime.
Geesh Gunslinger, you are loosing the war! Why is law enforcement so intent on carrying out this failure? It seems that we shoud pick our battles and do what is best for the American people rather than what empowers corruption and organized crime.
You have No clue on anything about the illlegal drug wars. All that you know is that you like to use, abuse drugs. It bothers you that the rest of New Mexico, the Country is just never going to be a low-life druggie like you. So stfu, nobody believes any of your fabricated **it.
Bedrock Bob

Cerrillos, NM

#204 Apr 15, 2010
Gunslinger915 wrote:
<quoted text> You have No clue on anything about the illlegal drug wars. All that you know is that you like to use, abuse drugs. It bothers you that the rest of New Mexico, the Country is just never going to be a low-life druggie like you. So stfu, nobody believes any of your fabricated **it.
So once again you are going to avoid discussing the issue at all. The fact that even with an extreme handicap and a 10:1 price difference the cartels cannot even command 50% of the marijuana market. And your idea is that when it becomes legal for American growers that it will be EASIER for the cartel to compete and MORE PROFITABLE. But you fail to evidence this in any way.

Your logic is trash. When someone points this out you hide behind curses and ridicule and have yet to refute a single point that I have made, or support a single point that you have made.

Your only suporting point is a lie..That legalization would mean legalization of all smuggling. We have pointed out the glaring fault in oyur logic, and reminded you a dozen times in thsi thread that your only argument is based upon fantasy.

The proof is obvious. I*t is working right now in many states, the price of marijuana is falling daily, and the flood gates are not even open yet. Legalization in California will flood teh market with LEGAL marijuana and the price will plummet even further than it already has.

Will law enforcement work with the laws of this country and use them to their advantage against the cartel? Or will law enforcement avoid this opportunity to help toward their goals because they did not get "their way"?

One thing for certain is that drug policy reform is happening in America, and the vast majority of people want it. Whether that turns out to be legalization, decriminalization, or some other variation I do not know. It is simply something that has to be done. It wil be a major campaign issue and in the next few elections it will be a decisinve issue.

The peole of America are sick and tired of losing battles becasue our government and officials are political slaves. They want change, common sense, and real solutions. They detest the BS stories that turn out to be plans to fleece this country. The "war on drugs" is the largest BS story of them all. Even the "silent majority" is lining up to get a piece of this one.

So, Gunslippery, fight like a man! Deabte the issues in plain english and make some sense. Defend your position because if you dont it will be lost. The policy change does not need to be a division between law enforcement and the public, but it has the potential to become that. Law enforcement is ther eto enforce the laws and not to dictate them. Humble yourself before the people because it is them you serve. Otherwise you will be forced to comply by the very ones that alow you your "authority".

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