Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32069 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#17341 Oct 12, 2012
10. Journal of Orson Pratt, September 8, 1833.

O. P. and L. J. sealed the members of the church at Bath, New Hampshire, Conn., to eternal life.

11. Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp 38-41; December 18, 1833.

On the eighteenth day of December, 1833, the Prophet and a number of the leading Elders of the Church assembled in the printing office which had just been built and that office was dedicated by the Prophet Joseph Smith. Following this ceremony the prophet proceeded to bless Oliver Cowdery and several members of the Smith family, after having conferred upon Joseph Smith, Sen., the office and Priesthood of Patriarch of the Church.

[Speaking of his mother, Joseph said:]
... thus saith the Lord, She shall have eternal life.

[Speaking of his father, Joseph said:]
... and he shall also possess a mansion on high, even in the Celestial Kingdom.

[Speaking of Hyrum, Joseph said:]
... And he shall have eternal life.

[Speaking of William, Joseph said:]
... he shall be saved unto the uttermost.

12. Journal of Reuben McBride; BYU Spec Collections. Kirtland, Ohio, May, 1834; as quoted in Principles of Perfection, Andrus, p. 349.

Some members of Zion's camp were sealed to eternal life by Joseph Smith before they left. They were promised that they would "come forth in the day of the Lord Jesus" but if they sinned "they would be delivered over to the buffeting of Satan for the destruction of the flesh." Apparently, the blessing was later given to the whole camp, as one of the members relates: "We were called together again and were sealed up unto eternal life the same as in Kirtland."

13. Life of Heber C. Kimball, p. 241, by Orson F. Whitney; April 6,.1839; Far West, Missouri. See also The Words of Joseph Smith, p. 18, by Ehat & Cook, Note #16.

[Heber had just returned from his mission in England and relates:]

My family having been gone about two months, during which time I heard nothing from them; our brethren being in prison; death and destruction following us everywhere we went; I felt very sorrowful and lonely. The following words came to my mind and the Spirit said unto me, "Write" which I did by taking a piece of paper and writing on my knee as follows:

Verily I say unto my servant Heber, thou art my son, in whom I am well pleased; for thou art careful to hearken to my words, and not transgress my law, nor rebel against my servant Joseph Smith, for thou hast a respect to the words of mine anointed, even from the least to the greatest of them; therefore thy name is written in heaven, no more to be blotted out for ever, because of these things; and this Spirit and blessing shall rest down upon thy posterity for ever and ever; for they shall be called after thy name, for thou shalt have many more sons and daughters, for thy seed shall be as numerous as the sands upon the seashore; therefore, my servant Heber, be faithful, go forth in my name and I will go with you, and be on your right hand and on your left and my angels shall go before you and raise you up when you are cast down and afflicted; remember that I am always with you, even to the end.

To be continued....

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#17342 Oct 12, 2012
So how does one make their "calling and election" sure? These quotes will break it down:

1. The More Sure Word of Prophecy

This phrase, like calling and election, comes from 2 Peter. In verse 19 we read:“We have also a more sure word of prophecy....” By revelation the Prophet Joseph Smith wrote concerning this phrase:“The more word of prophecy means a man’s knowing that he is sealed up unto eternal life by revelation and the spirit of prophecy, through the power of the Holy Priesthood. It is impossible for a man to be saved in ignorance.”(H.C. 5:392-93; D&C 131:5-6)

In the pre-earth life we were given a “word of prophecy” or a word of blessing upon our heads that we would obtain all the blessings of the gospel, even eternal life, if we followed the path of righteousness once on earth. In order to make that word of prophecy “more sure” we must follow the righteous path that will remove the conditional clause and make the blessings unconditional to us.

We may know that we are sealed up to eternal life “by revelation and the spirit of prophecy” and “through the power of the Holy Priesthood.” The heavens must declare that we are sealed up to eternal life, and then through the ordinances of the temple this blessing is sealed upon us by the priesthood. Such anointings and blessings are above the ordinance of temple marriage.“The anointing and sealing is to be called, elected and made sure.”(TPJS, p 323)

2. The Holy Spirit of Promise

Elder Bruce R. McConkie explained:

When the Holy Spirit of Promise places his ratifying seal upon a baptism, or a marriage, or any covenant, except that of having one’s calling and election made sure, the seal is a conditional approval or ratification; it is binding in eternity only in the event of subsequent obedience to the terms and conditions of whatever covenant is involved.

But when the ratifying seal of approval is placed upon someone whose calling and election is thereby made sure---because there are no more conditions to be met by the obedient person ---this act of being sealed up unto eternal life is of such transcendent import that of itself it is called being sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, which means that in this crowning sense, being so sealed is the same as having one’s calling and election made sure. Thus, to be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise is to be sealed up unto eternal life; and to be sealed up unto eternal life is to be sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise. And of this usage of terms, a usage which is wholly misunderstood unless the whole concept of the sealing power of the Spirit is understood, the scriptures and other prophetic utterances bear repeated witness.(DNTC 3:335- 36)

In Section 88 of the Doctrine and Covenants the Holy Spirit of Promise is called the “other Comforter” which “is the promise which I give unto you of eternal life, even the glory of the celestial kingdom; Which glory is that of the church of the Firstborn, even of God, the holiest of all, through Jesus Christ his Son---.”(vs. 3-5) This promise of eternal life rests within the heart and soul of the individual who has been sealed up, and it gives peace and security to him, and is an anchor to the soul in times of trial and difficulty. This is the second comforter of promise, not of presence, which is Jesus Christ himself. Although the Savior will not be able to always reside with an individual, the Holy Spirit of promise can, and will.

To be continued...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#17343 Oct 12, 2012
3. The Church of the Firstborn

Jesus Christ is the “firstborn” in the spirit of Heavenly Father. This church calls itself after this concept of Christ being the firstborn. It is composed of individuals who have been sealed up unto eternal life, whether they are alive on earth, or whether they are in the spirit world. No matter where they dwell, they all belong to the same church. Joseph Smith repeatedly talked about coming into the presence of “the general assembly and church of the firstborn”(TPJS, pp 320-21). Elder McConkie states that “members of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints who so devote themselves to righteousness that they receive the higher ordinances of exaltation become members of the Church of the Firstborn.” He states that “celestial marriage is the gate to membership in the church of the Firstborn, the inner circle of faithful saints who are heirs of exaltation and the fulness of the Fathers kingdom.”(Mor Doc, p. 139) These elect people “comprise a very select group, an inner circle of faithful members” of the Church. These people have received the priesthood, and have been “endowed in the temple of the Lord” and have entered “into that ‘order of the priesthood’ names the ‘new and everlasting covenant of marriage’ and overcome by faith until, as the sons of God, they merit membership in the Church of the Firstborn.”(Mor Doc, pp 200-02)

Being married in the temple for time and all eternity does not make an individual a member of the church of the Firstborn. Temple marriage is only the GATE which leads to membership to that kingdom. The “higher ordinances of exaltation” must first be administered to the individual, just as baptism and confirmation must be administered to in order to become members of the earthly Church of Jesus Christ. Membership to the church of the Firstborn is obtained by an “anointing and sealing” for “the anointing and sealing is to be called, elected and made sure.”(TPJS, p 323). In the temple “this room [the Holy of Holies] is reserved for the higher ordinances in the Priesthood relating to the exaltation of both living and dead.”(The House of the Lord, J. E. Talmage, p. 163). Note that ordinances in that room are administered to both the living and the dead (by proxy) and have to do with our exaltation.

In August of 1931, Elder Joseph Fielding Smith stated that after a person has been baptized into the church, and after “he has proved himself by a worthy life, having been faithful in all things required of him, then it is his privilege to receive other covenants and to take upon himself other obligations which will make of him an heir, and he will become a member of the ‘Church of the Firstborn.’ Into his hands,‘the Father has given all things.’

He will be a priest and a king, receiving of the Father’s fulness and of his glory.” Then Elder Smith asks the question:“Is this worth having?*** The fulness of these blessings can only be obtained in the temple of the Lord!”(Way to Perfection, p. 208)

To be continued...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#17344 Oct 12, 2012
4. The Fulness of the PriesthoodKing & Priest/Queen & Priestess

Within the gospel context, all who make their calling and election sure and are thus sealed up to eternal life become a king and a priest. A king wears a crown, therefore Joseph asked the question:“Have you a promise of receiving a crown of righteousness from the hand of the Lord, with the Church of the Firstborn?”(TPJS, pp 63-66).“Those who have kept the faith will be crowned with a crown of righteousness; be clothed in white raiment; be admitted to the marriage feast; be free from every affliction; and reign with Christ on the earth.”(Ibid). A king “rules” and a priest “reigns”. Thus the faithful will “rule and reign in the House of Israel forever.”***“If the Saints are not to reign, for what purpose are they crowned?”(TPJS, p 64)

To the Relief Society sisters in Nauvoo, the Prophet Joseph stated that “the Lord was going to make of the Church of Jesus Christ a kingdom of Priests, a holy people, a chosen generation, as in Enoch’s day.”(H.C. 4:570) President Brigham Young commented that “for any person to have the fullness of that priesthood (Melchizedek) he must be a king and priest.”(H.C. 5:527)“Those holding the fulness of the Melchizedek Priesthood are kings and priests of the Most High God, holding the keys of power and blessings.”

To become a king and a priest was something that Joseph Smith wanted every man to receive, not just the apostles. The gospel will elevate every righteous man to the level of a king. He said that we “have got to learn how to be Gods” and “to be kings and priests to God, the same as all the Gods have done before” us.(TPJS, pp 346- 47)“The fulness of the priesthood includes the authority of both king and priest.”***“Such as have not received the fulness of the priesthood, and have not been anointed and ordained in the temple of the Most High, may obtain salvation in the celestial kingdom, but not a celestial crown. Many are called to enjoy a celestial glory, yet few are chosen to wear a celestial crown, or rather, to be rulers in the celestial kingdom.”(Elder Orson Hyde, M.S. IX,2-Jan 15, 1847, pp 23-4)“All men who will may receive salvation and exaltation and the sealing powers.”(D.S. 2:122)“The spirits of just men are made ministering servants to those who are sealed unto life eternal, and it is through them that the sealing power comes down.”(H.C. 6:51-52) To receive a fulness of the priesthood is to gain a fulness of the sealing power, the same power which Elijah restored to the earth on April 3, 1836 in the Kirtland temple. Every one who is “ordained after this order and calling should have power, by faith, to break mountains, to divide the earth, to break every band, to stand in the presence of God; to do all things according to his will, according to his command, subdue principalities and powers; and this by the will of the Son of God.”(IV Gen 14:26-35)

Those who are kings and queens then have the right to build up their own “kingdoms” through two processes:(1) by giving birth to their own children, and; (2) by adopting individuals into their family.

In old testament times all kings were anointed with holy oil as they assumed their office of king. And so it is today. All who become kings are anointed, and to become a priest you are ordained.“Such as have...not be anointed and ordained in the temple of the Most High, may obtain salvation in the celestial kingdom, but not a celestial crown.”(O Hyde, Ibid). The anointing and ordaining is done in the Holy of Holies by one who is authorized by the Prophet to perform the ordinances. These higher blessings are above those of temple marriage, and are the ordinances by which an individual is sealed up to eternal life.

To be continued...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#17345 Oct 12, 2012
5. Peace In This World/Eternal Life In World To Come

Jesus spoke of a peace that the world could not give. He said:

“Peace I leave with you, my peace I give unto you: not as the world giveth, give I unto you.”(John 14:27). In a revelation to Joseph Smith the Lord said that an individual could obtain “peace in this world, and eternal life in the world to come.”(D&C 59:23)

The peace spoken of is a result of having the second comforter of promise with the soul of the individual. This promise and guarantee of eternal life is like an anchor to the soul in troubled times. For the knowledge is there that one day he will receive eternal life in the world to come.“He who obtains it will obtain an exaltation in the celestial kingdom of our Father in heaven... They are they who are the church of the Firstborn.”(M. G. Romney, Imp. Era, Nov. 1949, pp. 719, 752, 754).“This gift of eternal life in the world to come many not, of course, be fully realized during earth life. An assurance that it will be obtained in the world to come may, however, be had in this world. As a matter of fact, the blessings of the celestial kingdom are promised only to those who have such an assurance.”***“The Prophet Joseph taught that one so sealed [by the Holy Spirit of Promise] would have within himself an assurance born of the spirit, that he would obtain eternal life in the world to come. He urgently and repeatedly admonished the Saints of his day to obtain such an assurance by making their calling and election sure. It is this assurance within a person which brings to him the peace in this world which will sustain him in every tribulation.*** These fruits of the gospel---assurance that we shall obtain eternal life, peace in this world sustained by such an assurance, and finally eternal life in the world to come---are within the reach of us all.”(M. G. Romney, Ibid).“Through self-discipline and devotion we must demonstrate to the Lord that we are willing to serve him under all circumstances. When we have done this, we shall receive an assurance that we shall have eternal life in the world to come. Then we shall have peace in this world.”(Ibid).

6. The Second Comforter

The Prophet Joseph Smith said:“There are two comforters spoken of. One is the Holy Ghost.*** The other Comforter spoken of...is no more nor less than the Lord Jesus Christ Himself; and...when any man obtains this last Comforter, he will have the personage of Jesus Christ to attend him, or to appear unto him from time to time, and even He will manifest the Father unto him....”(TPJS pp 149-151).“If a man gets knowledge enough to have the companionship of the Son of God, the chances are his call and election would be sure.”(D.S. 1:55) The first comforter then is the Holy Ghost, while the second one is the Lord himself.

To be continued...

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#17347 Oct 12, 2012
Though I have posted a lot here, this is a very edited account. I have tons more of quotes and information. Those wanting the complete report can e-mail me at [email protected] and I'll be glad to send to you through e-mail. They are html docs. This collection was done by a member of the LDS church. But like I said, I don't think it is on the internet anymore. Why it is gone, I have no clue.

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#17348 Oct 12, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus Christ Almighty no one believes your self interested whining act.
The filth that is Mormon worked hard to encourage the War in Vietnam while simultaneously working to exempt Mormon pimply faced boys from actually having to fight in said war. This behavior is typical and just like Romney the four time yellow bellied cowardly POS war monger.
You can kiss your own lard ass or, better yet, go kiss Ann Misogynist Romney's stinky ball of lard. You know your Bishoprick will make you.
lol you freak.

Since: Sep 12

West Plains, MO

#17349 Oct 12, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course, as Romney is, you are also a pathological lying scumbag. All RomneyLDSers are.
"Mormons have been active participants in the campaign both as volunteers and financial contributors, giving an estimated 43 percent — some $8.4 million — to the Proposition 8 campaign, according to the Web site mormonsfor8.com . There are about 770,000 Mormon church members in California, but Mormons from outside the state have been encouraged to give money and time to help pass the measure."
Case in point, San Francisco Archbishop George Niederauer, who quietly reached out last summer to Mormon leaders he had met while stationed in Salt Lake City to ask them to become involved in the Prop 8 campaign. It wasn't until after the election that the archbishop's letter surfaced.

On November 9 the San Francisco Chronicle reported that Niederauer's June correspondence "drew in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and proved to be a critical move in building a multi-religious coalition."

In the pastoral message last December, Niederauer wrote that he invited the Mormon Church to participate at the bequest of the California Catholic Conference of Bishops.

"I was asked to contact leaders of the LDS Church whom I had come to know during my 11 years as bishop of Salt Lake City, to ask them to cooperate again, in this election cycle," read Niederauer's message.

At the same time, the archbishop continued to downplay his churches' involvement in the anti-gay campaign, stating that the San Francisco archdiocese's monetary contribution in support of the initiative was nominal. While the archbishop's assertion was correct, it belied the significant role, not of Catholics in general, but of Catholic organizations, in eliminating marriage rights for California's same-sex couples.
http://www.ebar.com/news/article.php...

Just because you like wikipedia so much, here you go:
"Cordileone is considered to be theologically conservative.[9] An opponent of same-sex marriage, he was one of the creators of Proposition 8[10] and once said, "Only one idea of marriage can stand...If that's going to be considered bigoted, we're going to see our rights being taken away–as is already happening."[9] He is also opposed to abortion, and supports the use of the 1962 form of the Roman liturgy as a now extraordinary form of the Roman Rite.[11]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salvatore_J._Cor...

Since: Sep 12

West Plains, MO

#17350 Oct 12, 2012
more:
Cordileone made headlines in 2008 when he helped draft Proposition 8, calling same-sex marriage "a plot by the evil one" to destroy the world during a radio interview. According to ABC, he personally donated at least $6,000 to the 2008 ban, and is currently the chairman of the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops' Subcommittee for the Promotion and Defense of Marriage.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/07/27/salv...

Since: Sep 12

West Plains, MO

#17351 Oct 12, 2012
NoMo wrote:
<quoted text>
Denying what ur Morg did, after countless sheep put in all those man hours and 30 million. How sad u are so ashamed of it. Why?
I'm not denying anything, nor do I have to admit anything. I'm just presenting facts, which is in opposition to your narrow scoped lies.

Since: Sep 12

West Plains, MO

#17352 Oct 12, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
Of course, as Romney is, you are also a pathological lying scumbag. All RomneyLDSers are.
"Mormons have been active participants in the campaign both as volunteers and financial contributors, giving an estimated 43 percent — some $8.4 million — to the Proposition 8 campaign, according to the Web site mormonsfor8.com . There are about 770,000 Mormon church members in California, but Mormons from outside the state have been encouraged to give money and time to help pass the measure."
I never said they weren't involved. Geez, settle down. You'll piss and miss your jug.

Since: Sep 12

West Plains, MO

#17353 Oct 12, 2012
Gladiator76 wrote:
<quoted text>
Scouts is not a religious group! I pulled my son out because Mormons are ruining scouts and he asks me why they pray in their uniforms! Fcking Mormons have to pray for everything and get in others lives. Where do atheist kids go to scouts?
Didn't you say you went through the temple in 1967??? And you have a child in Scouts??? Geez, you can't seem to get your stories straight. You're nothing but a lying troll.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#17354 Oct 12, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
Jesus Christ Almighty no one believes your self interested whining act.
The filth that is Mormon worked hard to encourage the War in Vietnam while simultaneously working to exempt Mormon pimply faced boys from actually having to fight in said war. This behavior is typical and just like Romney the four time yellow bellied cowardly POS war monger.
You can kiss your own lard ass or, better yet, go kiss Ann Misogynist Romney's stinky ball of lard. You know your Bishoprick will make you.
We miss you over on the political forums. You were our favorite laughingstock!

Since: Sep 12

West Plains, MO

#17355 Oct 12, 2012
Gladiator76 wrote:
<quoted text>
Scouts is not a religious group! I pulled my son out because Mormons are ruining scouts and he asks me why they pray in their uniforms! Fcking Mormons have to pray for everything and get in others lives. Where do atheist kids go to scouts?
"I am a active Mormon and I do know what I did. In 1967 when I did my temple endowments we did a blood oath from ear to ear."

Sound familiar???

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#17356 Oct 12, 2012
"OregonSUX" used to be quite active over on the strictly political forums, but the lefties over there asked him to leave because they said he/she was making them look bad.

Since: Sep 12

West Plains, MO

#17357 Oct 12, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
I remember hearing that speech, I was 16 at the time. It is also the speech where he advocated knocking a gay elder down, and said he would have done it himself.
"While I was in a mission on one occasion, a missionary said he had something to confess. I was very worried because he just could not get himself to tell me what he had done.

After patient encouragement he finally blurted out, "I hit my companion."

"Oh, is that all," I said in great relief.

"But I floored him," he said.

After learning a little more, my response was "Well, thanks. Somebody had to do it, and it wouldn't be well for a General Authority to solve the problem that way"

I am not recommending that course to you, but I am not omitting it. You must protect yourself."

Would you not want your child to protect themself from unwanted advances? Would you not protect yourself if it were done to you? If someone put their hands on you, or your daughter (I'm assuming you do not have a son) in a way that is unwanted or threatening, how would you handle it? I've taught my kids that they need to protect themselves. As long as they weren't the instigators, they have that right.

“Mormons will brainwash you”

Since: Oct 12

Location hidden

#17358 Oct 12, 2012
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text>well you have said your new church teaches from the bible. Which I assume you realize was written by prophets of old. So I guess they are taught by what Jesus said, mostly through his prophets. Would you not agree ?
His prophets 2000 years ago. Not in the present where there are false prophets

Since: Sep 12

West Plains, MO

#17359 Oct 12, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
You are right, it wasn't the LDS church alone who pushed for Prop 8. There is a lot of guilt to go around including the Black churches. I hold them all responsible. But this is a forum on Mormonism.
This might be a forum on Mormonism, but my point has everything to do with what we are talking about, and therefore relevant.

Since: Sep 12

West Plains, MO

#17360 Oct 12, 2012
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text>On a side note, where have I lied?
That's all that cat lady can say when confronted with the truth presented with facts.

Since: Sep 12

West Plains, MO

#17361 Oct 12, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
LDS makes people on FOOD STAMPS - welfare from the rest of us - tithe.
Unbelievable greed.
No wonder Romney, Romini, Gypsy, Grifter stock is drippin with bottomless greed.
He takes from the taxpayer as well and feels not a lick of shame, guilt or concern and intends to do so on steroids.
I knew it! That's what you are so pissed about! You think it takes away from your meal ticket. You're afraid your free ride will end. Well, you should be scared, cat lady.

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