Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 32098 comments on the CNN story from Oct 12, 2011, titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at CNN.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#15588 Sep 20, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Amos 8:11-12 in Its Biblical Context
Amos was a prophet during the period of the divided kingdom, in the days of Uzziah and Jeroboam II, around 760 BC. If we look at Amos 8:11-12 in context, we find that it simply has nothing to do with the Christian church during or after the New Testament era. There is no connection between what Amos said and anything that happened following the passing of the New Testament apostles more than 800 years after the time of Amos. Of course, Old Testament prophets could prophesy about events millennia later if God revealed such events to them, but in this instance that is definitely not the case.
Paul also warned the Corinthians against “false Apostles”(2 Corinthians 11:13) who preached “another Jesus, whom we have not preached.”(2 Corinthians 11:4) Remember also that Paul told the elders at Ephesus that as soon as he was gone, false teachers would arise out of their ranks and deceive many.
Paul and Peter wrote in the 50s and 60s, and evidently they were witness to serious troubles within the Church. However, when we turn to later writings, such as Jude (ca. 80 A. D.) and John, clearly the situation had become critical.
Jude, the brother of Jesus, wrote a general epistle to combat the many false teachers who had crept into the Church:
It was needful for me to ... exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.(Jude 1:3-4)

The Jerusalem Bible is more specific about the identity of these false teachers.“Certain people have infiltrated among you, and they are the ones you had a warning about, in writing, long ago.” Who warned the saints “in writing” about the infiltration of false teachers? Jude goes on to explain that this warning came from the Apostles, so it stands to reason that this was the apostasy foretold in the earlier New Testament writings.“But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.”(Jude 1:17-18)

fairlds.org

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#15589 Sep 20, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Amos 8:11-12 in Its Biblical Context
Amos was a prophet during the period of the divided kingdom, in the days of Uzziah and Jeroboam II, around 760 BC. If we look at Amos 8:11-12 in context, we find that it simply has nothing to do with the Christian church during or after the New Testament era. There is no connection between what Amos said and anything that happened following the passing of the New Testament apostles more than 800 years after the time of Amos. Of course, Old Testament prophets could prophesy about events millennia later if God revealed such events to them, but in this instance that is definitely not the case.
In direct response to your literature on my Amos reference I give you this:

fairlds.org

"It might be countered that Amos referred to the time of apostasy in Israel between the Old and New Testaments, when we have no further record of any prophets adding their witness to the Bible. However, the New Testament clearly demonstrates that Israel had not undergone a total apostasy, which is clearly what was predicted in this passage. For example, the case of Zacharias shows that the Aaronic priesthood was still operative (see Luke 1), and Jesus’ statement to the Samaritan woman that “salvation is of the Jews”(John 4:22) indicates that their laws and ordinances retained some efficacy. Indeed, Luke referred to Anna as a “prophetess”(Luke 2:36), so clearly the word of the Lord could be found during the intertestamental period, even though it was not generally accepted. Latter-day Saints do not argue that there was absolutely no inspiration or revelation during the period between the apostasy and Restoration, but post-Apostolic Christianity in general does not claim to have had any prophets who could speak the word of the Lord with authority.

Similarly, John saw in vision that a beast, representing an agent of Satan, was allowed to “make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”(Revelation 13:7)

The most specific reference to the totality of the apostasy, however, is in Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians. Here Paul noted not only that an apostasy was inevitable, but that the “son of perdition” would sit “as God ... in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”(2 Thessalonians 2:1-4) It is difficult to imagine how this prophecy was to be fulfilled if the Church was to remain."

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#15590 Sep 20, 2012
In response to Dana Robertson's comments on mormonism and cola drinks:

I have done some more research on the matter, and while I can not dispute your family's treatment of the matter, I can quote church officials.

Spencer W. Kimball made his own and the Church's view of cola drinks clear:
I never drink any of the cola drinks and my personal hope would be that no one would. However, they are not included in the Word of Wisdom in its technical application. I quote from a letter from the secretary to the First Presidency,'But the spirit of the Word of Wisdom would be violated by the drinking or eating of anything that contained a habit-forming drug.' With reference to the cola drinks, the Church has never officially taken any attitude on this at but I personally do not put them in the class as with the tea and coffee because the Lord specifically mentioned them [the hot drinks].
Spencer W. Kimball, Teachings of Spencer W. Kimball, edited by Edward L. Kimball,(Salt Lake City: Bookcraft, 1982), 202

An official statement of policy from the First Presidency is available:
With reference to cola drinks, the Church has never officially taken a position on this matter, but the leaders of the Church have advised, and we do now specifically advise, against the use of any drink containing harmful habit-forming drugs under circumstances that would result in acquiring the habit. Any beverage that contains ingredients harmful to the body should be avoided.
Lester E. Bush, Jr., ed., "Mormon Medical Ethical Guidelines," Dialogue: A Journal of Mormon Thought 12 no. 3 (Fall 1979), 103

http://en.fairmormon.org/Word_of_Wisdom/Cola_...

The verdict is: the Church has never officially taken a position on the matter of cola drinks.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#15591 Sep 20, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
A bold statement without evidence.
Evidence:

Harper's Bible Dictionary
"The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament."
Paul F. Achtemeier, ed.(1985), 1099

"We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His baptism at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four."
(Jeffrey R Holland, THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM HE HATH SENT)

"With these New Testament sources and more ringing in our ears, it may be redundant to ask what Jesus meant when He said,“The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do.” On another occasion He said,“I came down from heaven, not to do mine own will, but the will of him that sent me.” Of His antagonists He said,“[They have]… seen and hated both me and my Father.” And there is, of course, that always deferential subordination to His Father that had Jesus say,“Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.”12 “My father is greater than I.”

See also

See, for example, John 12:27–30; John 14:26; Romans 8:34; Hebrews 1:1–3.
John 5:19; see also John 14:10.
John 6:38.
John 15:24.
Matthew 19:17.
John 14:28.
Matthew 26:39.
Matthew 27:46.
Philippians 2:5–6.

"To whom was Jesus pleading so fervently all those years, including in such anguished cries as “O my Father, if it be possible, let this cup pass from me” and “My God, my God, why hast thou forsaken me”? To acknowledge the scriptural evidence that otherwise perfectly united members of the Godhead are nevertheless separate and distinct beings is not to be guilty of polytheism; it is, rather, part of the great revelation Jesus came to deliver concerning the nature of divine beings. Perhaps the Apostle Paul said it best:“Christ Jesus … being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God.”

"A related reason The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is excluded from the Christian category by some is because we believe, as did the ancient prophets and apostles, in an embodied—but certainly glorified—God. To those who criticize this scripturally based belief, I ask at least rhetorically: If the idea of an embodied God is repugnant, why are the central doctrines and singularly most distinguishing characteristics of all Christianity the Incarnation, the Atonement, and the physical Resurrection of the Lord Jesus Christ? If having a body is not only not needed but not desirable by Deity, why did the Redeemer of mankind redeem His body, redeeming it from the grasp of death and the grave, guaranteeing it would never again be separated from His spirit in time or eternity? Any who dismiss the concept of an embodied God dismiss both the mortal and the resurrected Christ. No one claiming to be a true Christian will want to do that."

See David L. Paulsen,“Early Christian Belief in a Corporeal Deity: Origen and Augustine as Reluctant Witnesses,” Harvard Theological Review, vol. 83, no. 2 (1990): 105–16; David L. Paulsen,“The Doctrine of Divine Embodiment: Restoration, Judeo-Christian, and Philosophical Perspectives,” BYU Studies, vol. 35, no. 4 (1996): 7–94; James L. Kugel, The God of Old: Inside the Lost World of the Bible (2003), xi–xii, 5–6, 104–6, 134–35; Clark Pinnock, Most Moved Mover: A Theology of God’s Openness (2001), 33–34.

See Romans 6:9;

http://www.lds.org/general-conference/2007/10... +(name%3a%22Jeffrey+R.+Holland %22)#3-
2 thessalonians

Middlesboro, KY

#15592 Sep 20, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
In direct response to your literature on my Amos reference I give you this:
fairlds.org
"It might be countered that Amos referred to the time of apostasy in Israel between the Old and New Testaments, when we have no further record of any prophets adding their witness to the Bible. However, the New Testament clearly demonstrates that Israel had not undergone a total apostasy, which is clearly what was predicted in this passage. For example, the case of Zacharias shows that the Aaronic priesthood was still operative (see Luke 1), and Jesus’ statement to the Samaritan woman that “salvation is of the Jews”(John 4:22) indicates that their laws and ordinances retained some efficacy. Indeed, Luke referred to Anna as a “prophetess”(Luke 2:36), so clearly the word of the Lord could be found during the intertestamental period, even though it was not generally accepted. Latter-day Saints do not argue that there was absolutely no inspiration or revelation during the period between the apostasy and Restoration, but post-Apostolic Christianity in general does not claim to have had any prophets who could speak the word of the Lord with authority.
Similarly, John saw in vision that a beast, representing an agent of Satan, was allowed to “make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”(Revelation 13:7)
The most specific reference to the totality of the apostasy, however, is in Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians. Here Paul noted not only that an apostasy was inevitable, but that the “son of perdition” would sit “as God ... in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”(2 Thessalonians 2:1-4) It is difficult to imagine how this prophecy was to be fulfilled if the Church was to remain."
( Pre 1990 temple rituals)Adam builds an alter and cries out,''O God hear the words of my mouth!'
When he repeats this three times,an arrogant voice responds off stage,'' I hear you!''Lucifer then enters the scene.Sauntering over to Adam,''what is it you want?''''Who are you?''demands Adam in suprise.''I am the God of this world,''replies Lucifer. When confronted with the fact that there are trillions of Gods in Mormonism, the average Mormon will invariably try to deny the polytheistic nature of his religion by insisting,'' But we only worship the God of this world'' BINGO

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#15593 Sep 20, 2012
piratefighting wrote:
not ashamed
Maybe you should investigate your purpose... are you here to condemn for lack of information, lack of knowledge...
Or, are you gonna maybe give her some information and let her choose for herself.
You can't expect her to choose for herself when she hasn't been to the LDS Church and is just regurgitating what she's heard. Good Grief... at least she's not displaying a little mystery to intice men to wonder what's under her skirt.
You don't know me... I've not told you anything about myself... so, keep guessin... and keep showing your IQ and your testimony.
my purpose for being here is to correct misconceptions. To correct lies that my kiss then have to deal with. If pearl has a question about our faith I will gladly answer it. However as of yet, I haven't seen one. I feel religious beliefs are personal and not to be shoved down others throats. I haven't condemned her. Lol you are very quick to assume.
Furthermore, not only do I know nothing about you, im not the least bit curious.
My testimony is between heavenly father and myself. Your opinion doesn't matter in the least.

“I will not keep calm”

Since: Mar 08

Raise hell...change the world

#15594 Sep 20, 2012
piratefighting wrote:
<quoted text>
No Pearl, that is inaccurate. I don't like trolls... and for a long time I have been questioning if you are a troll or not.
I do think that you should investigate what your talking about before you make judgements about it... that is ignorance when people do that. No, I don't have time for ignorance.
I did not call you a liar. I said you were a predictable idiot. I am sorry for that statement now that you have explained what your situation is.
Hahahahahaha so its ok for you to call people names as long as you aren't aware of their situation? Meaning as long as you are presumptuous in your judgments on others character that its alright?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#15595 Sep 20, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Visit http://religiousreporter.com much?
Why? Do you want me to?
If we are going to continue our discussion I would appreciate it if you posted references to your sources, especially if you are going to copy and paste a large portion of your response from a website.
I usually do.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#15596 Sep 20, 2012
not ashamed wrote:
<quoted text> I don't even know what her religious beliefs are, not do I care.
I wasn't attacking her, just throwing out my opinion. You know because this is a public forum. Pearl doesn't need you to speak for her, she seems capable of doing that. You read WAY more into what I said, which was a statement meant for anyone who blames society. Had nothing to do with language barriers or religion. Nor was it directed solely at her.
You don't have to like my opinions, you do more damage to our faith than the antis here.
He/she/it really is pathetic. LOL!

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#15597 Sep 20, 2012
2 thessalonians wrote:
<quoted text>( Pre 1990 temple rituals)Adam builds an alter and cries out,''O God hear the words of my mouth!'
When he repeats this three times,an arrogant voice responds off stage,'' I hear you!''Lucifer then enters the scene.Sauntering over to Adam,''what is it you want?''''Who are you?''demands Adam in suprise.''I am the God of this world,''replies Lucifer. When confronted with the fact that there are trillions of Gods in Mormonism, the average Mormon will invariably try to deny the polytheistic nature of his religion by insisting,'' But we only worship the God of this world'' BINGO
We worship God the Father. We do not worship Satan.

Secondly: The information presented within the temple of God is not secret, but it is sacred. Please be respectful. One of the reasons why the information endowed upon worthy members of the church in the temple is not openly discussed is because its context cannot be fully understood with out first understanding the principles of the gospel and the scriptures.

Third: Member's comments have been taken out of context as well as Satan's.

Fourth: Satan is the father of all lies. In Isaiah we read of how Satan tried to exalt himself above God. Why should his efforts to claim the title of "the God of this world" cease here? Satan wants people to believe that he is the God of this world.

Since: Sep 12

Location hidden

#15598 Sep 20, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Why? Do you want me to?
<quoted text>
I usually do.
Yes, please do. Thanks!
lol

Middlesboro, KY

#15599 Sep 20, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
We worship God the Father. We do not worship Satan.
Secondly: The information presented within the temple of God is not secret, but it is sacred. Please be respectful. One of the reasons why the information endowed upon worthy members of the church in the temple is not openly discussed is because its context cannot be fully understood with out first understanding the principles of the gospel and the scriptures.
Third: Member's comments have been taken out of context as well as Satan's.
Fourth: Satan is the father of all lies. In Isaiah we read of how Satan tried to exalt himself above God. Why should his efforts to claim the title of "the God of this world" cease here? Satan wants people to believe that he is the God of this world.
Satanic temple rituals not sacred.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#15600 Sep 20, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
I guess I can supply some more evidence of apostasy beyond Amos 8.
I'm copy and pasting this from fairlds.org
Paul spoke of this apostasy (“falling away”) when he told the elders at Ephesus that “after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.”(Acts 20:29-30) Thus the Church would be under attack both from without (persecution) and from within (heresy). Indeed, Paul had serious concerns about the Church’s stability when he wrote to Timothy that the saints would turn away from sound doctrine:
Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all longsuffering and doctrine. For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; and they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. But watch thou in all things, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.(2 Timothy 4:3-5)
Notice how Paul entreated Timothy to do his duty as an evangelist, but indicated that the Church in general would forsake the faith. In the same letter Paul intimated that “all they which are in Asia be turned away from me”(2 Timothy 1:15)–and Asia Minor was exactly where most of the Christian converts lived.
The apostasy was to happen before the second coming of Christ. Paul told the Thessalonians not to worry about Christ coming back anytime soon saying,“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away [Greek apostasia] first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition.”(2 Thessalonians 2:3) This apostasy was already underway.“For already the secret power of wickedness is at work, secret only for the present until the Restrainer disappears from the scene.”(2 Thessalonians 2:7 NEB) Who was the “Restrainer” Paul spoke of? When we remember that Paul told the elders at Ephesus that persecutions would rage and heretics would arise from within the Church after he departed (Acts 20:29-30), it becomes clear that this was a reference to the Apostles themselves.
Such references to an apostasy already underway are to be found throughout the New Testament. For instance, Paul rebuked the Galatians for turning to a perverted form of the gospel:
I marvel that ye are so soon removed from the grace of Christ unto another gospel: which is not another, but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.(Galatians 1:6-8)
I don't deny that there has been apostasy though out the ages. In fact, I see Mormonism as being another example of that. Mormonism did exactly what Paul said in Galatians "ye are so soon removed from the grace of Christ unto another gospel". What I deny is that the apostasy was total. Jesus said that "I will build My church; and the gates of Hades will not overpower it." Is Jesus a liar, or a false prophet? Because there couldn't a total apostasy for 1,700 something years and that statement be true.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#15601 Sep 20, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Paul also warned the Corinthians against “false Apostles”(2 Corinthians 11:13) who preached “another Jesus, whom we have not preached.”(2 Corinthians 11:4) Remember also that Paul told the elders at Ephesus that as soon as he was gone, false teachers would arise out of their ranks and deceive many.
Paul and Peter wrote in the 50s and 60s, and evidently they were witness to serious troubles within the Church. However, when we turn to later writings, such as Jude (ca. 80 A. D.) and John, clearly the situation had become critical.
Jude, the brother of Jesus, wrote a general epistle to combat the many false teachers who had crept into the Church:
It was needful for me to ... exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints. For there are certain men crept in unawares, who were before of old ordained to this condemnation, ungodly men, turning the grace of our God into lasciviousness, and denying the only Lord God, and our Lord Jesus Christ.(Jude 1:3-4)
The Jerusalem Bible is more specific about the identity of these false teachers.“Certain people have infiltrated among you, and they are the ones you had a warning about, in writing, long ago.” Who warned the saints “in writing” about the infiltration of false teachers? Jude goes on to explain that this warning came from the Apostles, so it stands to reason that this was the apostasy foretold in the earlier New Testament writings.“But, beloved, remember ye the words which were spoken before of the Apostles of our Lord Jesus Christ; How that they told you there should be mockers in the last time, who should walk after their own ungodly lusts.”(Jude 1:17-18)
fairlds.org
All FAIR has done is providing proof against Mormonism. That the false Apostles are LDS ones, because Mormonism, if it has done anything, has brought a different message than the one taught by the Apostles of the Bible. Mormonism is the "false teachers" and the "mockers". The message of Mormonism is NOT the one that was "which was once delivered unto the saints". Jesus never, ever, taught "the Plan of Salvation." He never taught that our salvation was depended on any temple endowment. He never taught that marriage was eternal, he taught against it. These are major principles of the LDS church. If they were the "gospel of Jesus Christ", don't you think he would have taught it? Mormonism claims to be a "restoration" of the New Testament church. That would mean the teachings would have to be in harmony with that church. Mormonism clearly is not.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#15602 Sep 20, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
In direct response to your literature on my Amos reference I give you this:
fairlds.org
I have to ask that if you are going to bother to post a link, to post the whole link of the actual page you copied from.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#15603 Sep 20, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
In direct response to your literature on my Amos reference I give you this:
fairlds.org
"It might be countered that Amos referred to the time of apostasy in Israel between the Old and New Testaments, when we have no further record of any prophets adding their witness to the Bible. However, the New Testament clearly demonstrates that Israel had not undergone a total apostasy, which is clearly what was predicted in this passage. For example, the case of Zacharias shows that the Aaronic priesthood was still operative (see Luke 1), and Jesus’ statement to the Samaritan woman that “salvation is of the Jews”(John 4:22) indicates that their laws and ordinances retained some efficacy. Indeed, Luke referred to Anna as a “prophetess”(Luke 2:36), so clearly the word of the Lord could be found during the intertestamental period, even though it was not generally accepted. Latter-day Saints do not argue that there was absolutely no inspiration or revelation during the period between the apostasy and Restoration, but post-Apostolic Christianity in general does not claim to have had any prophets who could speak the word of the Lord with authority.
Similarly, John saw in vision that a beast, representing an agent of Satan, was allowed to “make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.”(Revelation 13:7)
The most specific reference to the totality of the apostasy, however, is in Paul’s second letter to the Thessalonians. Here Paul noted not only that an apostasy was inevitable, but that the “son of perdition” would sit “as God ... in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.”(2 Thessalonians 2:1-4) It is difficult to imagine how this prophecy was to be fulfilled if the Church was to remain."
What I posted already dealt with this. Amos was talking about the Northern kingdom. The guy you copied doesn't have a clue about the context Amos was speaking in. He is just trying to make a Mormon connection.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#15604 Sep 20, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
Evidence:
Harper's Bible Dictionary
"The formal doctrine of the Trinity as it was defined by the great church councils of the fourth and fifth centuries is not to be found in the New Testament."
Paul F. Achtemeier, ed.(1985), 1099
Who is Paul F. Achtemeier and why should I care what his opinion on the Trinity is? The teaching can be found in the new Testament because Christianity has been teaching it for 2,000 yrs. There are many great web sites that will break it down for you with the scriptures to back it up if you are really interested. But I'm not going to loss any sleep over Achtemeier's opinion.
"We declare it is self-evident from the scriptures that the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost are separate persons, three divine beings, noting such unequivocal illustrations as the Savior’s great Intercessory Prayer just mentioned, His baptism at the hands of John, the experience on the Mount of Transfiguration, and the martyrdom of Stephen—to name just four."
(Jeffrey R Holland, THE ONLY TRUE GOD AND JESUS CHRIST WHOM HE HATH SENT)
Yes, the LDS church has been in denial over this for almost 200 yrs. The irony in all this is when Smith was making the BoM, he still believed in the Trinitarian nature of God. How do I know? Because he tried to use the Book of Mormon to explain it:

Mosiah 15
1 And now Abinadi said unto them: I would that ye should understand that God himself shall come down among the children of men, and shall redeem his people.

2 And because he dwelleth in flesh he shall be called the Son of God, and having subjected the flesh to the will of the Father, being the Father and the Son—

3 The Father, because he was conceived by the power of God; and the Son, because of the flesh; thus becoming the Father and Son—

4 And they are one God, yea, the very Eternal Father of heaven and of earth.

http://www.lds.org/scriptures/bofm/mosiah/15... #

No where in the Book of Mormon will you find the teaching of God once being a man. Of God being a gloried man, in fact it goes out of the way to teach that God is just a spirit. And no where will you see the claim later made that God and Jesus were "one in purpose."

This is how I know the First Vision is bogus, because at the time Smith claimed to have gotten the plates, he still was believing there was only one God.
Not a God

Middlesboro, KY

#15605 Sep 20, 2012
Sambrotherofnephi wrote:
<quoted text>
We worship God the Father. We do not worship Satan.
Secondly: The information presented within the temple of God is not secret, but it is sacred. Please be respectful. One of the reasons why the information endowed upon worthy members of the church in the temple is not openly discussed is because its context cannot be fully understood with out first understanding the principles of the gospel and the scriptures.
Third: Member's comments have been taken out of context as well as Satan's.
Fourth: Satan is the father of all lies. In Isaiah we read of how Satan tried to exalt himself above God. Why should his efforts to claim the title of "the God of this world" cease here? Satan wants people to believe that he is the God of this world.
(Pre 1990 temple rituals)Each Mormon going through the Temple solemnly puts on the fig-leaf apron.In contrast,the bible indicates that God refused to except Adam and Eve's fig-leaf aprons as a covering for their nakedness.Instead ,He clothed them in the skins of animals that he sacrificed for them as a symbol of the sacrifice Christ would one day make upon the CROSS for the sins of not only Adam and but of the whole world.
(pre-1990 temple rituals)Adam notices Lucifer's apron and ask him what it means. Satan then replies It is the emblem of my power and priesthoods. Having said that ,Lucifer directs Adam and eve to fashion similar aprons for themselves.

Since: Sep 12

Ozark, MO

#15606 Sep 20, 2012
lol wrote:
<quoted text>Satanic temple rituals not sacred.
He didn't say they were. He said, "information presented within the temple of God is not secret, but it is sacred." Way to reinforce the stereotype of the people of Kentucky.

Since: Sep 12

Ozark, MO

#15607 Sep 20, 2012
Not a God wrote:
<quoted text>(Pre 1990 temple rituals)Each Mormon going through the Temple solemnly puts on the fig-leaf apron.In contrast,the bible indicates that God refused to except Adam and Eve's fig-leaf aprons as a covering for their nakedness.Instead ,He clothed them in the skins of animals that he sacrificed for them as a symbol of the sacrifice Christ would one day make upon the CROSS for the sins of not only Adam and but of the whole world.
(pre-1990 temple rituals)Adam notices Lucifer's apron and ask him what it means. Satan then replies It is the emblem of my power and priesthoods. Having said that ,Lucifer directs Adam and eve to fashion similar aprons for themselves.
"Except" or "accept"?

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