Who says Mormons aren't Christians?

There are 20 comments on the Oct 12, 2011, CNN story titled Who says Mormons aren't Christians?. In it, CNN reports that:

Editor's note: Dean Obeidallah is an award-winning comedian who has appeared on TV shows such as Comedy Central's "Axis of Evil" special, ABC's "The View," CNN's "What the Week" and HLN's "The Joy Behar Show." He is executive producer of the annual New York Arab-American Comedy Festival and the Amman Stand Up Comedy Festival.

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Since: May 10

Location hidden

#8647 Jun 2, 2012
Janice wrote:
Nickel,
I'm sorry that you think this way. Unfortunately, I've never seen your articles nor heard your name mentioned among the Mormon Scholars nor with Egyptologists, Archeologists, or Philologists; therefore, I am not sure the argument for restoration works here. Nevertheless, suit yourself, you have no idea the level of Paganism involved with these texts and their origin. If you did understand this, then you would realize that that these ancient texts included ritualistic human sacrifices of both virgin women and children, genocidal cleansing rituals, feminine circumcision, polygamy and polyandry, and racism against dark-colored cultures. If you are excited about restoring this religion in all its glory, then you are one sick man. I do not expect anything more from you because from your defense it is obvious you are a Mormon yourself. If you were in my position, knowing the history that I know, reading the source books that I've read, the last thing you would do is combine Jesus' gospel with the Pagan rights of the "God of Lights" or Lucifer (Satan).
Lastly, remember how Joseph Smith received revelation to translate the Pearl of Great Price? Well, it so happens that these texts I've listed are the references that Joseph Smith would have used to write the Pearl of Great Price. Do I think this will convince you? Nope, I am only washing the blood off my hands from promoting, and participating, in an ancient Egyptian religion that ultimately destroyed the Age of Pharaohs. Our ancestors tried to eradicate these teaches from the earth, but there revival 5000 years later will prove our very destruction; mark my word because in heaven, you will be judged by what you know. Don't take this lightly, the world is counting on my testimony.
As crazy as this may sound, the only organization capable of world domination and take over is the Mormon religion because it has accessed the ancient "dark rites" hidden since the time of the Pharaohs. This also means the the Mormons are also the organization capable of bringing forth an Anti-Christ to reign as a pharaoh in the last days. You have no idea how much power they hold, you may think that as a member you have a good grasp of what really goes on; but I assure you that you are nowhere close. Soon however, you will look back at the time you read "crazy" Janice' thread on the internet and your soul will tremble with horror as you see your world melt away around you. I can only hope that if God spares the world in any way from the Mormon takeover that someone will write down what I've written here today so that future generations will understand that the power of Lucifer is something totally different that the Lord Jesus Christ. Good luck dear sir, you will need it.
Great prose!

Nonsense, of course. But great prose nonetheless!

Interesting that you set yourself apart as the great teacher, sent to "save" all of mankind from the "evil" LDS Church.

I've read screeds similar to yours...only in opposition to the Catholic Church.

Others think it the "Zionist" Jews.

Some folks do need their boogeymen.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#8648 Jun 2, 2012
Livinginthelandofcrazy wrote:
<quoted text>
That was a good show! You can't just watch one episode...
The remake was far better.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#8649 Jun 2, 2012
Janice wrote:
The hermetic texts were translated to German when Joseph Smith Sr. was ten years old; in the late 1700s.
As you may or may not know, Joseph Smith Jr.(the first Mormon Prophet) claimed that German was the most "perfect" language (circa 1840).... traditions to gain membership fidelity. In the media, the Church has white-washed its history and its doctrines. Just recently they recanted their original doctrine of Jesus and Satan being brothers; however, inside the temple this teaching and doctrine remains. The Mormon church leadership are remaining faithful to the "Red-covered" masonic traditions by lying to the public sector for their own private benefit.
One thing I know you got right is the lying part. The leaders of the LDS church will lie without hesitation when one of their beliefs become exposed, or appears to embarrass them. Hinckley downplaying the LDS teaching that men can become God's is a perfect example. But you can see the leaders of Mormonism doing it from the beginning when you have Smith claiming to only have one wife when he, in fact, have around 30 at the time. They justify it by claiming it's for our own good.

Any chance you getting all this information together in one location like a web site or book? Much of what you are writing about is new to even me.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#8650 Jun 2, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
The more you post, the more ignorant you appear.
The same holds true for you.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#8651 Jun 2, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
Great prose!
Nonsense, of course. But great prose nonetheless!
Interesting that you set yourself apart as the great teacher, sent to "save" all of mankind from the "evil" LDS Church.
I've read screeds similar to yours...only in opposition to the Catholic Church.
Others think it the "Zionist" Jews.
Some folks do need their boogeymen.
Couldn't prove her wrong, aye! She knows far more about the topic then you do, that is a fact.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#8652 Jun 2, 2012
Janice wrote:
Nickel,
I'm sorry that you think this way. Unfortunately, I've never seen your articles nor heard your name mentioned among the Mormon Scholars nor with Egyptologists, Archeologists, or Philologists; therefore, I am not sure the argument for restoration works here. Nevertheless, suit yourself, you have no idea the level of Paganism involved with these texts and their origin. If you did understand this, then you would realize that that these ancient texts included ritualistic human sacrifices of both virgin women and children, genocidal cleansing rituals, feminine circumcision, polygamy and polyandry, and racism against dark-colored cultures. If you are excited about restoring this religion in all its glory, then you are one sick man. I do not expect anything more from you because from your defense it is obvious you are a Mormon yourself. If you were in my position, knowing the history that I know, reading the source books that I've read, the last thing you would do is combine Jesus' gospel with the Pagan rights of the "God of Lights" or Lucifer (Satan).
Lastly, remember how Joseph Smith received revelation to translate the Pearl of Great Price? Well, it so happens that these texts I've listed are the references that Joseph Smith would have used to write the Pearl of Great Price. Do I think this will convince you? Nope, I am only washing the blood off my hands from promoting, and participating, in an ancient Egyptian religion that ultimately destroyed the Age of Pharaohs. Our ancestors tried to eradicate these teaches from the earth, but there revival 5000 years later will prove our very destruction; mark my word because in heaven, you will be judged by what you know. Don't take this lightly, the world is counting on my testimony.
As crazy as this may sound, the only organization capable of world domination and take over is the Mormon religion because it has accessed the ancient "dark rites" hidden since the time of the Pharaohs. This also means the the Mormons are also the organization capable of bringing forth an Anti-Christ to reign as a pharaoh in the last days. You have no idea how much power they hold, you may think that as a member you have a good grasp of what really goes on; but I assure you that you are nowhere close. Soon however, you will look back at the time you read "crazy" Janice' thread on the internet and your soul will tremble with horror as you see your world melt away around you. I can only hope that if God spares the world in any way from the Mormon takeover that someone will write down what I've written here today so that future generations will understand that the power of Lucifer is something totally different that the Lord Jesus Christ. Good luck dear sir, you will need it.
The only thing I really disagree with you on is that the anti-Christ will be Mormon. The internet is killing the Mormon church because more and more people are leaving and bringing out it whacked teachings to light. My theory is that the anti-Christ is more likely to be Muslim. Muslims have armies and it wouldn't take more for some Islamic nut job to get a portion of them together to start WWIII. Iran being a good example of one country that could do it. Mormonism doesn't have control of even one small nation. And Mormonism is bleeding members almost as fast as they get them. Their growth is mostly by births, not conversions.

I'm loving what you are posting.
Redman

Choctaw, OK

#8653 Jun 2, 2012
Hello folks, I just want to add my two cents worth....My bible talkes a lot about judgement, I am a christian and my preferred bible is King James version but I am open to all.... There, Jesus tells us to judge, but to do so righteously. Righteously means to use the Truth of the Word to discern sins and not by appearances only. In 1Cor. 6:2-3 Jesus authorizes us to judge. Judge we must else we could not discern good from bad, proper from improper, righteousness from evil. But judge behavior, not the individual; the deed not the doer; the choice not the chooser. The individual/doer/chooser is accountable for his/her deed/choice, but judge the deed/choice in your judgment. Jesus could see a king in a shepherd boy. And an Apostle in a murderer. So while we must judge one's behavior we must try to nurture the goodness in an individual: to separate the deed from the doer.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#8654 Jun 2, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Couldn't prove her wrong, aye! She knows far more about the topic then you do, that is a fact.
There is no need for me to prove her wrong. She must prove she is right.

And all she has provided is conjecture.

And of course you, in your typical anti-Mormon knee-jerk fashion, will state that she knows more about the subject than I, and then in almost the same breath, you state that much of what she is posting is entirely new to you.

If it is new to you, how do you know she is correct? Other than by your usual criteria that if it's anti-Mormon, it must be true!

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#8655 Jun 2, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
The same holds true for you.
Coming from one such as you, who's been caught lying on repeated occasion over the last decade or so, it means nothing.

Make up any more fictitious quotes today?

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#8656 Jun 2, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no need for me to prove her wrong. She must prove she is right.
And all she has provided is conjecture.
And of course you, in your typical anti-Mormon knee-jerk fashion, will state that she knows more about the subject than I, and then in almost the same breath, you state that much of what she is posting is entirely new to you.
If it is new to you, how do you know she is correct? Other than by your usual criteria that if it's anti-Mormon, it must be true!
I don't know if she is correct. But the Freemason connection to Mormonism is well documented and can be seen clearly just by looking at the Salt Lake Temple. So she is searching farther back at the sources of Freemasonry and showing how their ideas are incorporated in Mormonism today. I'm not taking it as fact though until I read her links to see what they say. If what she wrote is conjecture, it is conjecture based on some factors I already know to be true and is good conjecture. Her writing also demonstrate she is far more educated then you and I put together. This isn't some "Ann Romney aborted her daughters" BS.

I'm hoping she tells us more.

“Too much LDS in the 60's”

Since: Sep 10

Marysville, CA

#8657 Jun 2, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
Coming from one such as you, who's been caught lying on repeated occasion over the last decade or so, it means nothing.
Make up any more fictitious quotes today?
Don't have to make up any fictitious quotes when the leaders give us some much more to chew on that is better:

"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.)( http://www.carm.org/lds/quote_by.htm )

"In the days of Joseph [Smith] it was considered a great privilege to be permitted to speak to a member of Congress, but twenty-six years will not pass away before the Elders of this Church will be as much thought of as the kings on their thrones." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, page 40.)

Far more than 26 yrs has passed since this quote, and it isn't any more true today then it was when he said it. Showing Bring'em Young was a false prophet.

Want more quotes?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8658 Jun 2, 2012
Livinginthelandofcrazy wrote:
<quoted text>
I haven't dodged any questions, unlike you and your liberal ax to grind. You apparently can't read due to your liberal blindness which has overtaken your eyesight and comprehension. Your questions are not uncomfortable as I'm happy to answer them. However, you really don't want to know the answers because your agenda is not to gain knowledge, or even to understand. It's one of contempt and hatred and pushing and promoting lies to further your self serving cause.
Here you go again cowardly dodging direct questions. You simply cannot provide a coherent answer to any of them which is why you keep lobbing nonsense and running away.

Why can't women be Mormon priesthood holders?

Why does Mutt Romnutz think he will be GOD when he dies?

Why does Mutt Romnutz think his wife will be eternally pregnant when she dies?

Why does the Mormon Church baptize the dead of other faiths? Why does the Mormon Church have such an interest in genealogy?

What is the percentage of blacks active in the Mormon Church?

Why can't non-Mormons enter Temples?

Why do some Mormons insist they are Christians when the writings of the founders are clearly anti-Christianity?

Do Mormons never don swimsuits or sleeveless attire in public?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8659 Jun 2, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
Pretty much.
Most churches ask their membership to fund their activities through tithes and donations.
The Salvation Army funds it's activities through asking the public at large to donate.
So while they do a lot of good, they also pay their clergy, buy their real estate holdings, provide their paid staff with salaries and company cars, etc. etc. from donations made by the public at large.
Nothing wrong with that, as long as there is full disclosure. I wonder if the bell ringers can provide a breakdown of costs associated with operating their church to those who toss money into the pot at Christmastime?
Not everyone is enthralled with the Salvation Army:
http://www.ripoffreport.com/clubs-organizatio...
Get rid of the tax free status of all religious organizations. Fine by me.

Why does this happen?

"The LDS Church has not publicly disclosed its financial statements in the United States since 1959.[2] The LDS church does disclose its financials in the United Kingdom[3] and Canada[4] where it is required to do so by law. In the UK, these financials are audited by the UK office of PricewaterhouseCoopers."

wikipedia

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#8660 Jun 2, 2012
Dana Robertson wrote:
<quoted text>
Don't have to make up any fictitious quotes when the leaders give us some much more to chew on that is better:
"Shall I tell you the law of God in regard to the African race? If the white man who belongs to the chosen seed mixes his blood with the seed of Cain, the penalty, under the law of God, is death on the spot. This will always be so." (Journal of Discourses, Volume 10, page 110.)( http://www.carm.org/lds/quote_by.htm )
"In the days of Joseph [Smith] it was considered a great privilege to be permitted to speak to a member of Congress, but twenty-six years will not pass away before the Elders of this Church will be as much thought of as the kings on their thrones." (Journal of Discourses, Vol. 4, page 40.)
Far more than 26 yrs has passed since this quote, and it isn't any more true today then it was when he said it. Showing Bring'em Young was a false prophet.
Want more quotes?
Then why have you used fictitious quotes in the past?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8661 Jun 2, 2012
"Salt Lake City Ward: Tithing donations averaged just a touch over $500,000.00 for a year. Again, on average, the various missionary, education and temple project funds garnered about $17,000.00 to 20,000.00 and Fast offering ran $25,000.00 to 30,000.00.

California: Our ward was relatively affluent in So Cal. We took in about $950,000 in total contributions. Our Ward allotment from the stake was around $8000. All the utilities are paid by the stake. The 8000 was basically to run ward programs and activities. The 950,000 included all tithing, fast offering, missionary,.. etc...[The majority of the $950,000 stayed in the Salt Lake City corporate headquarters. The Mormon church does not publish or release how these vast sums of money are spent.]

A less affluent Ward: I was in a ward that was mostly retired and blue collar members... I was involved in tithing settlement total donations were nearly 200,000. The following years tapered off a little due to economy and move outs. We would send as much as 5,000 in tithes to Salt Lake in a good week... then watch the bishop agonize over giving someone a $100 in groceries.

California affluent: I was in one of the most affluent wards in California. We took in $25-50,000 a week in tithes alone. Our annual ward budget from Salt Lake was a measly $7-8,000 a year!

Student Ward in Utah: I was the clerk of a STUDENT ward in Logan Utah during the mid 1990's. I don't remember specific numbers but we took in something like $250k in tithing in a year. I remember thinking something along the lines of: "Wow, there are six student wards in just this one building. That's significantly more than $1M per year just from this one building."

A lower income ward: We are in a lower income area and send in around 400K/year and our ward budget is around 4K/year. Nearly every week the bishop comes in to the clerk's office, anxious to find out what the fast offering total is...But it churns my gut every time, as we deposit around $10,000 every Sunday, to see how it kills the bishop to consent to pay someone's electric bill.

Another example: Seven years ago, we brought in about $15,000 per week [$750,000/yr] and our allotment back from SLC was about $7,000 for the year.

This is just an estimate as the Mormon church does not publish its finances. It appears in the US, the Mormon church takes in $5-8 billion a year in tithing alone. It gives out less than $65 million ( less than 1.3% of tithing income) in humanitarian aid. It gives back to local congregations (wards) less than 1.5% for their activities. This does not include income from the many business ventures the Mormon church owns which may well more than double what it receives in tithing."

exmormon.org

That's terrible.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8662 Jun 2, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
Great prose!
Nonsense, of course. But great prose nonetheless!
Interesting that you set yourself apart as the great teacher, sent to "save" all of mankind from the "evil" LDS Church.
I've read screeds similar to yours...only in opposition to the Catholic Church.
Others think it the "Zionist" Jews.
Some folks do need their boogeymen.
As you need your religious fantasies.

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#8663 Jun 2, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
"Salt Lake City Ward: Tithing donations averaged just a touch over $500,000.00 for a year. Again, on average, the various missionary, education and temple project funds garnered about $17,000.00 to 20,000.00 and Fast offering ran $25,000.00 to 30,000.00.
California: Our ward was relatively affluent in So Cal. We took in about $950,000 in total contributions. Our Ward allotment from the stake was around $8000. All the utilities are paid by the stake. The 8000 was basically to run ward programs and activities. The 950,000 included all tithing, fast offering, missionary,.. etc...[The majority of the $950,000 stayed in the Salt Lake City corporate headquarters. The Mormon church does not publish or release how these vast sums of money are spent.]
A less affluent Ward: I was in a ward that was mostly retired and blue collar members... I was involved in tithing settlement total donations were nearly 200,000. The following years tapered off a little due to economy and move outs. We would send as much as 5,000 in tithes to Salt Lake in a good week... then watch the bishop agonize over giving someone a $100 in groceries.
California affluent: I was in one of the most affluent wards in California. We took in $25-50,000 a week in tithes alone. Our annual ward budget from Salt Lake was a measly $7-8,000 a year!
Student Ward in Utah: I was the clerk of a STUDENT ward in Logan Utah during the mid 1990's. I don't remember specific numbers but we took in something like $250k in tithing in a year. I remember thinking something along the lines of: "Wow, there are six student wards in just this one building. That's significantly more than $1M per year just from this one building."
A lower income ward: We are in a lower income area and send in around 400K/year and our ward budget is around 4K/year. Nearly every week the bishop comes in to the clerk's office, anxious to find out what the fast offering total is...But it churns my gut every time, as we deposit around $10,000 every Sunday, to see how it kills the bishop to consent to pay someone's electric bill.
Another example: Seven years ago, we brought in about $15,000 per week [$750,000/yr] and our allotment back from SLC was about $7,000 for the year.
This is just an estimate as the Mormon church does not publish its finances. It appears in the US, the Mormon church takes in $5-8 billion a year in tithing alone. It gives out less than $65 million ( less than 1.3% of tithing income) in humanitarian aid. It gives back to local congregations (wards) less than 1.5% for their activities. This does not include income from the many business ventures the Mormon church owns which may well more than double what it receives in tithing."
exmormon.org
That's terrible.
You are correct!

Believing a bunch of cut-and-pasted posts by a bunch of ex-Mormons, stolen by an anti-religious zealot, from a rabidly anti-Mormon website, IS indeed terrible.

Don't be terrible!

Do you own research:

www.mormon.org

Since: May 10

Location hidden

#8664 Jun 2, 2012
OregonSUX wrote:
<quoted text>
As you need your religious fantasies.
Which, if they are indeed fantasies, do not have any effect whatsoever upon you.

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8665 Jun 2, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct!
Believing a bunch of cut-and-pasted posts by a bunch of ex-Mormons, stolen by an anti-religious zealot, from a rabidly anti-Mormon website, IS indeed terrible.
Don't be terrible!
Do you own research:
www.mormon.org
How does someone do their own research on a secretive cult that does not publish its finances in the USA?

Now you are back to being a scummy spammer. You do realize, do you not, that your posts are terrible advertisements for the Mormon Church.

You are nasty, defensive, spamming and evasive. Why is everything such a big secret? Aren't Mormons proud of their rituals and beliefs? Why are you not?

Since: Apr 12

Location hidden

#8666 Jun 2, 2012
Cary L Nickel wrote:
<quoted text>
Which, if they are indeed fantasies, do not have any effect whatsoever upon you.
Until Mutt Romputz declared himself the Republicon nominee for POTUS.

It is all fair game now since the vast majority of us do not want to be governed by a nutjob with a secretive religious life that proclaims him well on the way to becoming a GOD. Do you still not get this?

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