World's largest solar farm coming to California

Sep 29, 2012 Full story: Christian Science Monitor 6

The sun is reflected on a solar panel at a solar power field in Kawasaki, near Tokyo in this June 2012 file photo.

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Solarman

La Quinta, CA

#1 Sep 29, 2012
"Despite the rampant speculation, a spokesman for Florida-based NextEra reiterated that the company has yet to choose a panel provider for the project, suggesting that they may work with more than one supplier."

C'mon, at first it's most likely First Solar, then it is revealed that NextEra hasn't chosen a manufacturer yet. What about nanosolar? They print utililty grade solar panels for the German PV market.

As for solar PV on a large scale, you have to place it on large tracts of land. This much land in not usually near large energy user centers. So, the product has to be shipped to market. There are step up and step down power losses, as well as the need to build power corridors to get the power to market.

This plant is not needed. If you want to power 100,000 plus homes, then put a 4KW peak solar PV system on the roof of 100,000 homes and produce the power where it is needed and used. www.dsireusa.org

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Mexico

#2 Sep 30, 2012
Solarman wrote:
"Despite the rampant speculation, a spokesman for Florida-based NextEra reiterated that the company has yet to choose a panel provider for the project, suggesting that they may work with more than one supplier."

C'mon, at first it's most likely First Solar, then it is revealed that NextEra hasn't chosen a manufacturer yet. What about nanosolar? They print utililty grade solar panels for the German PV market.

As for solar PV on a large scale, you have to place it on large tracts of land. This much land in not usually near large energy user centers. So, the product has to be shipped to market. There are step up and step down power losses, as well as the need to build power corridors to get the power to market.

This plant is not needed. If you want to power 100,000 plus homes, then put a 4KW peak solar PV system on the roof of 100,000 homes and produce the power where it is needed and used. www.dsireusa.org
The problem with installing on individual roofs is the cost is far higher

A 4k system needs its own racking and it's own inverter and its own ac and DVD disconnect switches

I did a subdivision years ago and it cost almost half to instal a centralized system compared to individual systems

Now add that many would be pulled of the roofs and sold

Step up and step down transformer loss is no more than the loss from inverters
More inverters in isolated systems equals more loss
Solarman

La Quinta, CA

#3 Sep 30, 2012
Here Is One wrote:
<quoted text>
The problem with installing on individual roofs is the cost is far higher
A 4k system needs its own racking and it's own inverter and its own ac and DVD disconnect switches
I did a subdivision years ago and it cost almost half to instal a centralized system compared to individual systems
Now add that many would be pulled of the roofs and sold
Step up and step down transformer loss is no more than the loss from inverters
More inverters in isolated systems equals more loss
The step up of the generation source has a higher loss than the distrubution loss over relatively long distances, deemed as about 1% per 1000Km. But the step up and step down process can be in the neighborhood of 2% for each step. You might be able to step up once to get to the distribution grid, but may have to step down two, probably three times for home use. Older systems, more loss per step. You can actually get a loss of somewhere around 10 to 15% from generation source to end user. Now since about 2007 you have manufacturers like Enphase energy that make micro-inverters, so one can go with a panel/micro-inverter system. If the wiring size is properly selected, you can keep losses to around 3 to 5%. Less BOS components to complete the installation on one's roof. I looked up a system for a friend a few nights ago. I believe it was wholesalesolar.com that has the grid tied enphase system for about 10K for the 5.1K peak system and another 1,800.0 for racking. One should be able to install one of these systems on their roof for about 20-22K before rebates. We do still have the ITC of 30% available until december of 2016. Those in Edison and PG&E have rebates per installed AC KW. You can get one of these systems down to around 14K installed. On most construction, one could find 14K by choosing things like flooring, countertop, cabinet and fixtures that are a little less and using the difference to put solar PV on one's roof. Since the price of solar PV panels have decreased dramatically since 2005, from about 1k per panel to around $400.00 per panel in pallet quantities today. The utility sized projects are not as cost effective as the industry or the utilities would like you to think. But they do keep the power switch in their hands, instead of your's.

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Mexico

#4 Sep 30, 2012
Solarman wrote:
<quoted text>The step up of the generation source has a higher loss than the distrubution loss over relatively long distances, deemed as about 1% per 1000Km. But the step up and step down process can be in the neighborhood of 2% for each step. You might be able to step up once to get to the distribution grid, but may have to step down two, probably three times for home use. Older systems, more loss per step. You can actually get a loss of somewhere around 10 to 15% from generation source to end user. Now since about 2007 you have manufacturers like Enphase energy that make micro-inverters, so one can go with a panel/micro-inverter system. If the wiring size is properly selected, you can keep losses to around 3 to 5%. Less BOS components to complete the installation on one's roof. I looked up a system for a friend a few nights ago. I believe it was wholesalesolar.com that has the grid tied enphase system for about 10K for the 5.1K peak system and another 1,800.0 for racking. One should be able to install one of these systems on their roof for about 20-22K before rebates. We do still have the ITC of 30% available until december of 2016. Those in Edison and PG&E have rebates per installed AC KW. You can get one of these systems down to around 14K installed. On most construction, one could find 14K by choosing things like flooring, countertop, cabinet and fixtures that are a little less and using the difference to put solar PV on one's roof. Since the price of solar PV panels have decreased dramatically since 2005, from about 1k per panel to around $400.00 per panel in pallet quantities today. The utility sized projects are not as cost effective as the industry or the utilities would like you to think. But they do keep the power switch in their hands, instead of your's.
You are correct on most everything you are saying

But the best sunny boy inverters are far more efferent than the emphase garbage ( check out AUO new micro inverter)
But each inverter has a 2 to 3 percent loss so comparing small systems to a solar farm the multiple small system will have more loss as more inverters and then the voltage is still stepped up by the transformer on the utility pole

Also where this farm is going already has high tension lines right there for easy hook up and is delivering power to LA from the dam in NV
Solarman

La Quinta, CA

#5 Sep 30, 2012
Here Is One wrote:
<quoted text>
You are correct on most everything you are saying
But the best sunny boy inverters are far more efferent than the emphase garbage ( check out AUO new micro inverter)
But each inverter has a 2 to 3 percent loss so comparing small systems to a solar farm the multiple small system will have more loss as more inverters and then the voltage is still stepped up by the transformer on the utility pole
Also where this farm is going already has high tension lines right there for easy hook up and is delivering power to LA from the dam in NV
The specifications from Solarbridge and AUO pretty much match the CEC evaluation of the micro-inverter efficiency. The new model line of Enphase Energy M210-M215 are from 95.5 to 96% efficient. The AOU Solarbridge product is 94.5%. This 2 to 3% loss is for each module, this is not accumulative. With a series string module PV system shading of one panel becomes a problem for the whole panel string. With the Micro-inverter technology, shading affects only the panel and micro-inverter that is being shaded, not the whole string. As for power corridors, where this farm is going, they have had to install a parallel line on the other side of I-10 to get the power to market. NextEra bought the rights to the land from bankrupt Solar Millennium, which was going to use CSP using a working fluid to move heat for the generation source. Now that NextEra has bought into the project and "changed" the mode of generation from CSP to PV panel, the EIRs, the legal challenges and most of the permitting process will have to begin all over again. It will not be more efficient than putting the solar PV right on the roof of the home that generates it and uses it.

“Facts”

Since: May 08

Mexico

#6 Sep 30, 2012
Solarman wrote:
<quoted text>The specifications from Solarbridge and AUO pretty much match the CEC evaluation of the micro-inverter efficiency. The new model line of Enphase Energy M210-M215 are from 95.5 to 96% efficient. The AOU Solarbridge product is 94.5%. This 2 to 3% loss is for each module, this is not accumulative. With a series string module PV system shading of one panel becomes a problem for the whole panel string. With the Micro-inverter technology, shading affects only the panel and micro-inverter that is being shaded, not the whole string. As for power corridors, where this farm is going, they have had to install a parallel line on the other side of I-10 to get the power to market. NextEra bought the rights to the land from bankrupt Solar Millennium, which was going to use CSP using a working fluid to move heat for the generation source. Now that NextEra has bought into the project and "changed" the mode of generation from CSP to PV panel, the EIRs, the legal challenges and most of the permitting process will have to begin all over again. It will not be more efficient than putting the solar PV right on the roof of the home that generates it and uses it.
Where the loss is saved in the large system is that you have far less inverters
I am not talking about micro inverters but systems

Each house with let's say a 6 k system will be let's say 97% from the inverter

On a large system you will have les number of inverters
Less home run lines
Less bi directional meters
Less dc disconnects
Less ac disconnects

We can't use either of the micro inverters here as the island status is mot adjustable
We see voltages of 208 to 270

There is a moron in Vallarta that just got a bid for 108 panels with micors and I tried to tell him it won't work but..........

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