The Coming Of Biofuels: Study Shows Reducing Gasoline Emissions...

Jun 2, 2009 Full story: Pollution Online 49

President Barack Obama and Energy Secretary Steve Chu are consistent in their message that when it comes to transportation fuels, carbon-neutral biofuels as an alternative to gasoline are coming.

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“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#1 Jun 2, 2009
Basically they were supporting biofuels even though they admit they don't have enought data to really prove anything. Also they kind of glossed over how much emmisions from the process of raising that same biofuel.

In all a puff piece to boster support for biofuels while glossing over the shortcomings.
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#2 Jun 2, 2009
tina anne wrote:
Basically they were supporting biofuels even though they admit they don't have enought data to really prove anything.
Not half as blind as when we shifted to use crude oil in the FIRST place. Get a grip.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#3 Jun 2, 2009
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Not half as blind as when we shifted to use crude oil in the FIRST place. Get a grip.
And what did we shift from, coal. The only biofuel that ever reached widspread use and practicality was wood.
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#4 Jun 2, 2009
Note that biodiesel has an optimal impact when no more than about 10% of the blend. Above that, it can increase emissions.

Same problem with ethanol blends. Above 10%-15% it can increase ozone levels.

There may need to be more research on a suitable 'liquid fuel' for transport. One candidate is 2,5-dimethylfuran. We really don't know where we are going yet, just that it is important to progress in this area.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#5 Jun 2, 2009
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
Note that biodiesel has an optimal impact when no more than about 10% of the blend. Above that, it can increase emissions.
Same problem with ethanol blends. Above 10%-15% it can increase ozone levels.
There may need to be more research on a suitable 'liquid fuel' for transport. One candidate is 2,5-dimethylfuran. We really don't know where we are going yet, just that it is important to progress in this area.
Interesting, another entry for my data base.
MattJ

Pleasanton, CA

#6 Jun 3, 2009
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
And what did we shift from, coal. The only biofuel that ever reached widspread use and practicality was wood.
No, it is NOT "practically wood". On the contrary: while coal was being formed, methanogenesis REMOVED much of the hydrogen, so that anthracite, for example is almost 95% carbon.

So no, coal is MUCH heavier in carbon content than wood.
MattJ

Pleasanton, CA

#7 Jun 3, 2009
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
Note that biodiesel has an optimal impact when no more than about 10% of the blend. Above that, it can increase emissions.
Same problem with ethanol blends. Above 10%-15% it can increase ozone levels.
There may need to be more research on a suitable 'liquid fuel' for transport. One candidate is 2,5-dimethylfuran. We really don't know where we are going yet, just that it is important to progress in this area.
But doesn't all this just confirm what some of us thought all along? We have to cut caron emissions by other means, we are just NOT ready to replace gasoline with another fuel for transportation.

Instead, we have to cut emiisions by:

1) driving less
2) driving more efficiently (no hummers!)
3) using low-carbon/no-carbon energy sources for OTHER applications, such as heating

I hesitate to suggest nuclear, but I expect that we will have to turn to nuclear for #3. But nobody wants to fund that now in the US, and I can't really blame them.
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#8 Jun 3, 2009
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
And what did we shift from, coal.
No. The earliest car was to run on gunpowder ( no data on whether it did or not ). Other early fuels included everything from coal gas to kerosene to hydrogen. None ran on wood, of course, or coal.

But early diesels for example, often ran on vegetable oil. Biodiesel is really 'back to the future'

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#9 Jun 3, 2009
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
No. The earliest car was to run on gunpowder ( no data on whether it did or not ). Other early fuels included everything from coal gas to kerosene to hydrogen. None ran on wood, of course, or coal.
But early diesels for example, often ran on vegetable oil. Biodiesel is really 'back to the future'
Think back before cars, before trains. People were heating thier homes by cutting down trees. In England's case they changed the enviroment by clear cutting major portions of the landscape.

As usual you just to short sighted.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#10 Jun 3, 2009
MattJ wrote:
<quoted text>
But doesn't all this just confirm what some of us thought all along? We have to cut caron emissions by other means, we are just NOT ready to replace gasoline with another fuel for transportation.
Instead, we have to cut emiisions by:
1) driving less
2) driving more efficiently (no hummers!)
3) using low-carbon/no-carbon energy sources for OTHER applications, such as heating
I hesitate to suggest nuclear, but I expect that we will have to turn to nuclear for #3. But nobody wants to fund that now in the US, and I can't really blame them.
I'm sorry. I forgot that any post I praised was going to attract Matt's ire.
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#11 Jun 3, 2009
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
Think back before cars, before trains. People were heating thier homes by cutting down trees. In England's case they changed the enviroment by clear cutting major portions of the landscape.
yes. One of the early enviornmental disasters that led to the use of coal to replace wood. Hmm. Is this ironic or what??
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
As usual you just to short sighted.
As usual, what history shows us is that people like you never learn from history.
MattJ

Pleasanton, CA

#12 Jun 3, 2009
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm sorry. I forgot that any post I praised was going to attract Matt's ire.
There is no ire in the post you replied to. If you think there was, you need to see a therapist.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#13 Jun 4, 2009
MattJ wrote:
<quoted text>
There is no ire in the post you replied to. If you think there was, you need to see a therapist.
Why, are you going to share yours with me.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#14 Jun 4, 2009
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
yes. One of the early enviornmental disasters that led to the use of coal to replace wood. Hmm. Is this ironic or what??
<quoted text>
As usual, what history shows us is that people like you never learn from history.
ACtually what it shows is that people will adapt to thier enviroment and that practical solutions work.

ALso the first step for learning from history is studing what happened and understanding why.
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#15 Jun 4, 2009
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
ACtually what it shows is that people will adapt to thier enviroment
No. Those who, like you, never learn, destroy their environment and then take pride in surviving the desolation. Typical barbarian logic.
MattJ

Pleasanton, CA

#16 Jun 4, 2009
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
ACtually what it shows is that people will adapt to thier enviroment and that practical solutions work.
Except that no, it did NOT work. It simply exchanged one problem for another. It was the switch to coal that caused the famous London fog that continued for centuries afterwards.

And as we now know, it is also causing AGW, which is much more serious.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#17 Jun 4, 2009
They like the environment better than people, burning food is immoral. Wake up!

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#18 Jun 6, 2009
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
No. Those who, like you, never learn, destroy their environment and then take pride in surviving the desolation. Typical barbarian logic.
The first flaw in your thinking is that the enviroment is static. Neither climate or enviroment has been static in the entire history of the planet dispite your wishing it was. Typical AGW thinking that things should remain the same dispite no proof that it has ever done that.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#19 Jun 6, 2009
MattJ wrote:
<quoted text>
Except that no, it did NOT work. It simply exchanged one problem for another. It was the switch to coal that caused the famous London fog that continued for centuries afterwards.
And as we now know, it is also causing AGW, which is much more serious.
No, you beleive it caused AGW. Remebewr there are people here who consider AGW to be nothing more than a lie. Only a few die hards like yourself still believe in it dispite the mountain of evidence proving it wrong.

Your denying that it work is in one way the best proof that I am right. After all your recond of backing the wrong hourse is one hundred percent.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#20 Jun 6, 2009
Brian_G wrote:
They like the environment better than people, burning food is immoral. Wake up!
What always amazes me is thier resistence to the fact that the only constent in the planet's history is change. Which is the only way thier pet ideas would make sense. Once you start factoring in natural change then they all fall apart.

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