World's Largest Landfill Natural Gas ...

World's Largest Landfill Natural Gas Plant Opens in Livermore

There are 94 comments on the Http story from Nov 8, 2009, titled World's Largest Landfill Natural Gas Plant Opens in Livermore. In it, Http reports that:

Cutting the ribbon at the new landfill gas to liquefied natural gas plant at the Waste Management Altamont Landfill and Resource Recovery Facility in Livermore took a lot of hands.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Http.

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GoodForTheAir

San Francisco, CA

#1 Nov 8, 2009
This is excellent, it will trap the foul gases that plague Springtown saving our noses, trap greenhouse gas, and save on foriegn oil by using alternative fuels.
Great job to the team that implemented this.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#2 Nov 8, 2009
Someone finally figured out the only biofuel source that dosn't steal food out of peoples mouths.
Anon

Pleasanton, CA

#3 Nov 8, 2009
tina anne wrote:
Someone finally figured out the only biofuel source that dosn't steal food out of peoples mouths.
Oh is that so? So you were planning on eating cornhusks and algae for an entree, and washing it all down with a glass of used frying oil or perhaps the renderings of animal carcasses, were you?

Sounds yummy.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#4 Nov 9, 2009
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh is that so? So you were planning on eating cornhusks and algae for an entree, and washing it all down with a glass of used frying oil or perhaps the renderings of animal carcasses, were you?
Sounds yummy.
No but corn husks and stalks are already being used for cattle feed and a nice thick juicy steak does sound good right now.

Also no one has figured out how to make the algae a practical solution and the animal carcasses are used for many other things.

Then again if you bothered to do any research on the other uses for these materials then you would have to acknosledge that they are rotton sources for biofuels. And we cannot have your pretty little ideas shot down due to common sense.
Anon

Pleasanton, CA

#5 Nov 9, 2009
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
No but corn husks and stalks are already being used for cattle feed and a nice thick juicy steak does sound good right now.
Also no one has figured out how to make the algae a practical solution and the animal carcasses are used for many other things.
Then again if you bothered to do any research on the other uses for these materials then you would have to acknosledge that they are rotton sources for biofuels. And we cannot have your pretty little ideas shot down due to common sense.
Tina, you said biofuel takes food out of people's mouths, so which foods is it, that you were planning to eat, that is being diverted to biofuel? I'm not aware of any such problem in this space.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#6 Nov 10, 2009
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
Tina, you said biofuel takes food out of people's mouths, so which foods is it, that you were planning to eat, that is being diverted to biofuel? I'm not aware of any such problem in this space.
Most of them. For example people talk about using corn husks and stalks for biofuel. Those same materials are currently being used as cattle feed. Cattle that end up on my dinner plate. Another idea involved using sawdust which while not used for food is used for other materials such as construction materials and brake pads.

The current favorite is using corn and sugar which have so many other food related uses. Corn syrup is used as a sweetner in nearly everything and is another source of animal food.

So far other than this land fill idea I haven't seen one biofuel idea that dosn't involve something that is being used for something else. Which is until now biofuels has always been a bad idea.
Anon

Pleasanton, CA

#7 Nov 11, 2009
Corn residues are low quality feed. Besides, you'd be better off eating meat raised on a higher quality diet. When an animal is nourished properly you don't have to provide supplements and hormones to increase weight and fertility, additives that are potentially dangerous to humans.

HFCS is an extremely poor substitute for real sources of sugars and nobody should be eating it. Its diabetes and obesity in a can.

Veggie oil has no human usage and is thrown away unless used for a fossil fuel alternative. Manure, and "green waste" from urban garbage operation are excellent components for biofuel production and nobody is going to eat them. Where for example do you suppose all the NG in the landfill comes from? Its from decomp and fermentation of organic material like the trimmings from your lawn, the stuff from your dinner you threw in the trash, even the dirty diapers. That's not dinner either, its just garbage.

Before people started drinking so much soda and eating sugary foods, most of the midwest corn crop used to be plowed under after the harvest, or burned, not even used for feed (since it was nutritionally so poor that you can't get a brood animal through the winter on it).

Corn is so energy intensive to produce that the highest possible use of the crop residue is recycling, not food production. Not only is half the crop "waste", but it consumes an exorbitant amount of raw material and energy inputs. Not a "green" crop at all. People would be much better off with a backyard vegetable garden. And if we weren't eating 16B pounds of HFCS per year, we'd be improving our national profile.

Industrial farming is really killing the planet. Hopefully there can be some sensible reforms to change how we coax the earth to provide us with food rather than try to bend the earth to our will regardless of how much energy we waste in doing so.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#8 Nov 15, 2009
Anon wrote:
Corn residues are low quality feed. Besides, you'd be better off eating meat raised on a higher quality diet. When an animal is nourished properly you don't have to provide supplements and hormones to increase weight and fertility, additives that are potentially dangerous to humans.
HFCS is an extremely poor substitute for real sources of sugars and nobody should be eating it. Its diabetes and obesity in a can.
Veggie oil has no human usage and is thrown away unless used for a fossil fuel alternative. Manure, and "green waste" from urban garbage operation are excellent components for biofuel production and nobody is going to eat them. Where for example do you suppose all the NG in the landfill comes from? Its from decomp and fermentation of organic material like the trimmings from your lawn, the stuff from your dinner you threw in the trash, even the dirty diapers. That's not dinner either, its just garbage.
Before people started drinking so much soda and eating sugary foods, most of the midwest corn crop used to be plowed under after the harvest, or burned, not even used for feed (since it was nutritionally so poor that you can't get a brood animal through the winter on it).
Corn is so energy intensive to produce that the highest possible use of the crop residue is recycling, not food production. Not only is half the crop "waste", but it consumes an exorbitant amount of raw material and energy inputs. Not a "green" crop at all. People would be much better off with a backyard vegetable garden. And if we weren't eating 16B pounds of HFCS per year, we'd be improving our national profile.
Industrial farming is really killing the planet. Hopefully there can be some sensible reforms to change how we coax the earth to provide us with food rather than try to bend the earth to our will regardless of how much energy we waste in doing so.
Reaching arn't we. Those "corn residues" your refering to are the equlivant to hay in quality. When properly used with other feedstock provideds a balanced diet that helps the livestock bulk up quickly and the additives have the same effects on the livestock that multivitams and other medications provide for humans. I know farmers who feed it all throught the winter with excellent results. Once shredded it is easily digested and cattle and hogs not only survived the winter but grew fat and went to slaughter raised on corn.

High Fruitcose Corn Syrup is used since it is cheaper and easier to handle than sugar. It is used in nearly everything that you find in the grocery store and on the tables around the world in cans, boxs and jars plus things like choclate and candies.
Vegitable oil like sunflower and corn oil is used to fry nearly everything on the planet since some experts declared using anaimal fat extremely bad for us. I even have a couple of bottles of vegitable oil in my kitchen as well. The reason someone fould out that old vegitable oil was a good subsitute for diesel.

Industrial farming is the only way to feed the people of this planet. Those who love organic have yet to figure out how to get the production levels that industrial meets on a regular basis. Also keep in mind that many do not have have back yards and even those who have do not have anywhere near enought land able to do more than provide weekend dinner fixings. Which would also affect the amounts of material going into your landfill that is producing methane and that would affect the only sensiable source of biofuel I have seen.

In a nut shell corn is raided in such large quanities because it is such a useful crop that is used in nearly every part of your diet. It also is used for ten percent of the fuel that runs the nations cars. And start doing your research rather than listening to whatever fits your world views.
81 Hater

Modesto, CA

#9 Nov 15, 2009
tina anne wrote:
<quoted text>
Reaching arn't we. Those "corn residues" your refering to are the equlivant to hay in quality. When properly used with other feedstock provideds a balanced diet that helps the livestock bulk up quickly and the additives have the same effects on the livestock that multivitams and other medications provide for humans. I know farmers who feed it all throught the winter with excellent results. Once shredded it is easily digested and cattle and hogs not only survived the winter but grew fat and went to slaughter raised on corn.
High Fruitcose Corn Syrup is used since it is cheaper and easier to handle than sugar. It is used in nearly everything that you find in the grocery store and on the tables around the world in cans, boxs and jars plus things like choclate and candies.
Vegitable oil like sunflower and corn oil is used to fry nearly everything on the planet since some experts declared using anaimal fat extremely bad for us. I even have a couple of bottles of vegitable oil in my kitchen as well. The reason someone fould out that old vegitable oil was a good subsitute for diesel.
Industrial farming is the only way to feed the people of this planet. Those who love organic have yet to figure out how to get the production levels that industrial meets on a regular basis. Also keep in mind that many do not have have back yards and even those who have do not have anywhere near enought land able to do more than provide weekend dinner fixings. Which would also affect the amounts of material going into your landfill that is producing methane and that would affect the only sensiable source of biofuel I have seen.
In a nut shell corn is raided in such large quanities because it is such a useful crop that is used in nearly every part of your diet. It also is used for ten percent of the fuel that runs the nations cars. And start doing your research rather than listening to whatever fits your world views.
Don't worry Tina. No matter what you say, the facts you point out, or the proof you supply, Anon will quote a newspaper article and swing the words his way....It's like beating your head against a brick wall...There is only one way...ANON's WAY!
Anon

Pleasanton, CA

#10 Nov 16, 2009
No, 81H, she is just wrong and being pig headed about it. She doesn't even have her facts straight, like her absurd claim that corn stalks are comparable in quality to hay. That is simply flat out wrong. Like other grains, hay itself is graded in various qualities, and the worst hay is perhaps comparable to "fortified" corn residue.(Requires treatment with anhydrous ammonia, mmm yummy.) In any case, corn residues are low quality roughage, and cattle will eat them last when given a choice.

Corn is a very wasteful crop, and using the residues for animal feed is certainly less efficient than using it for energy, since raising cattle is itself a very inefficient process from the perspective of input energy vs output. To me, Tina sounds like a shill for the agri-business industry. Perhaps she's got lots of Monsanto stock?

Tina, btw, you might want to do some fact checking on what you think cattle are fed and what's in it. If you did, you'd learn that in general, animals in the feedlots are under nearly constant prophylactic antibiotic therapy, a necessity due to their cramped living conditions and the resultant poor state of their immune systems. In addition, because they are being raised for protein and fat content that are out-of-bounds with what a natural animal might have, they lack the nutritional profile of a grass fed animal.

If there is any doubt as to the superiority of grazing, just try comparing the relative cost of grass vs corn fed beef at the market.(or just eat it to taste the difference).

Americans should be eating less red meat anyway, and more fish, fruits and vegetables. I like a good steak as much as the next carnivore, but the amount of grain wasted in meat production is astronomical. As for HFCS, as stated before, it is diabetes mellitus/obesity in a can, and I believe it is a primary factor in the nutritional and lifestyle problems plaguing this country.
Anon

Pleasanton, CA

#11 Nov 16, 2009
Oh, and Tina, I don't know how I could be so careless as to omit the observation that your post perfectly illustrates a major problem facing our society, and indeed, the entire globe: human overpopulation. This is what has created this insane industrial monster and has led to destructive urbanization of so many millions of acres of our land.

We need to find a way to reverse the population trend, in order to get ourselves out of crisis mode. Fattening people up with fake foods and chemicals isn't a solution, and increasingly desperate and complicated attempts to wring the last bit of available energy out of our waste piles, while ignoring causal factors like overpopulation and the resulting need to embark on energy-intensive industrial food production techniques is a sure sign that we have lost the battle for stasis and instead are in rapid decline.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#12 Nov 16, 2009
Not only reducing GHGs but providing the cheapest and cleanest energy.

http://www.ceri.ca/documents/CERIComparativeC...

Putting the lie to those who claim emissions reductions will, by definition, bankrupt the nation.
81 Hater

Modesto, CA

#14 Nov 16, 2009
Tina, I'm telling you... your wasting your time. I mean, lets look at ANON's expertise:

He knows how to run the government better than any elected official.

He knows the ins and outs of the PERS retirement system better than anyone who is actually in it.

He knows the ins and outs of fire / police service better than anyone who has actually done the job.

Now, he knows more about farming, feed, beef, and food in general, than anyone who actually owns a farm.

Wow, ANON, you are incredible. I would think you would be on Oprah by now with all that incredible knowledge. Christ, if we would just listen to you, we would probably have world peace.
Copa

Santa Clara, CA

#15 Nov 16, 2009
81 - Anon is a racist, so he would not go on Oprah, even if in this world, he was extended such invitation.
Anon

Pleasanton, CA

#17 Nov 17, 2009
Copa wrote:
81 - Anon is a racist, so he would not go on Oprah, even if in this world, he was extended such invitation.
Oh, a racist. Do tell. This should be entertaining. Lets hear from the peanut gallery what you think a racist is?
81 Hater

Modesto, CA

#18 Nov 17, 2009
What did I tell you!!!! You post links supporting your facts and ANON says, "Bull hockey". Those links / facts are lies and printed by liars. Yet he is incredibly talented at posting his own links. His links, of course, are printed by centered and truthfull sources like uh...lets say the media. ANON knows just as well as we all do, that the media does not lie or twist the facts.

ANON, I for one am taking up your flag. You have obviously shown a lifetime, wait...many lifetimes worth of knowledge in this forum. You have also found sources on the internet, known only to you, which provide honesty. You have skills in accounting, Farming, government, pensions, and fact finding that is unmatched. You have my vote sir.

You know, ever since she walked down that yellow brick road, I have always wanted to meet the wizard. Now it seems I have.

I only wonder what machine he is running...better yet, what machine is running him?

“CO2 is Gaseous Love”

Since: Dec 08

Home, sweet home.

#19 Nov 18, 2009
The geological forces that make fossil fuel didn't stop, peak oil is an illusion. Fossil fuel is renewable, else you wouldn't be able to get natural gas from garbage.

“Team YOU'RE D.E.N.I.E.D.”

Since: Oct 09

Safford, AZ

#20 Nov 18, 2009
81 Hater wrote:
Tina, I'm telling you... your wasting your time. I mean, lets look at ANON's expertise:
He knows how to run the government better than any elected official.
He knows the ins and outs of the PERS retirement system better than anyone who is actually in it.
He knows the ins and outs of fire / police service better than anyone who has actually done the job.
Now, he knows more about farming, feed, beef, and food in general, than anyone who actually owns a farm.
Wow, ANON, you are incredible. I would think you would be on Oprah by now with all that incredible knowledge. Christ, if we would just listen to you, we would probably have world peace.
He talked about it but he and the guys who predicted the end of the world are busy mod'lin like crazy tryin to figure out why "everthang seems so plumb OPPUHSIT WHUT IT AU'TA Be!"

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#21 Nov 18, 2009
Anon wrote:
<quoted text>
I'm very impressed by your collection of links from the Agri-business cartel and their academic cohorts.
Maybe find some sources that don't have the extreme economic incentive that provides for the bias for their own products and services.
I was also active in 4H and FFA as a kid, and while I did that because I was interested in animals, as an adult I am more interested in sustainability, the population crisis, and technologies to reduce the human ecological footprint. If people realized that big agribusiness is all about money, they'd be horrified to learn what is done in the supply chain to put beef on the table. And Im not even talking about cruel treatment or poor feedlot conditions, just the biological and ecological impacts of beef production, and the destructiveness of corporate farms.
Your relatives skip hay and use low quality feeds because its cheaper, not because it makes for a better product, or is better for the animal. Again, the incentive is economic, not about improving food.
That's the point I'm making. People in this country haven't had to deal with famine conditions in a long time, but that is partly because massive energy inputs in agriculture have increased yields (of course, there is a cost to that, a huge cost, and one that most people don't perceive).
It is however, not sustainable, particularly in the face of diminishing returns on investment, but a growing population. If you haven't noticed, food prices are through the roof and headed much much higher over the next few years. This at a time when hunger in America (the Obama administraton has taken to referring to it as "Food insecurity"), has just reached a high point not seen since the 1990s.
Change we can believe in...a nation of malnourished, impoverished people. That's the future we're accelerating towards and it will be ugly unless we can reverse the destructive policies and practices that put us here.
And you never noticed that the links were all edu. In this case all from places of higher learning involved in agra research. So of course anyone who disagrees with your point of view must be in big agra. The fact that the researchers are public/goverment funded and trying to provide the average farmer with information since the agra corps your referring to would not need anyone else to do that research.

Lets face it you didn't have anything to do with farming and no clue about farming in general. Because if you did then you would realize that the only animals dummer than cows are chicken and sheep. You have no idea what it would take to actually run a farm let alone make it profitable.

I also think I figured out you one of the oganic back to nature clowns who wants everyone to back to what you think farming was with animal draw machinery and milking by hand.

“Denying those who deny nature”

Since: Jun 07

Norfolk va

#22 Nov 18, 2009
81 Hater wrote:
Tina, I'm telling you... your wasting your time. I mean, lets look at ANON's expertise:
He knows how to run the government better than any elected official.
He knows the ins and outs of the PERS retirement system better than anyone who is actually in it.
He knows the ins and outs of fire / police service better than anyone who has actually done the job.
Now, he knows more about farming, feed, beef, and food in general, than anyone who actually owns a farm.
Wow, ANON, you are incredible. I would think you would be on Oprah by now with all that incredible knowledge. Christ, if we would just listen to you, we would probably have world peace.
The thing about Anon is every time he opens his mouth outside of his inner circle of friends he ends up pointing out how silly thier little commune thinking is.

It even gets better when they start making things up and allowing me to use links to point out how foolish they are. I would not be surprised if he is one of the left overs from the biofuel craze who were convinced we could grow enought fuel to replace oil and all the products made from it.

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