Expert: We must act fast on warming

Sep 24, 2008 Full story: Kansas.com 27,952

Droughts, melting ice caps and glaciers, rising sea levels and mass extinctions will all be a reality unless the U.S. and the world cut back on carbon emissions dramatically, said James Hansen, director of ...

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Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#26867 Apr 27, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
From what is known the current Milankovich cycles have been as they are for the last 500,000 years. The periods of glaciation have been dominated by the eccentric cycle for the last 500.000 years. Prior to that time, the periods of glaciation were on the obliquity cycle.
If nothing in our solar system changes, then the current cycle will continue as is with eccentricity having the 95, 100, 112, and possibily 125,000 year cycles. If something did change, a huge something hit Mars and knocked it's orbit even just a little, or something hit the moon, then the Milankovitch Cycles would change with the change in the gravitational pull of all the other objects.
The Milankovitch cycles are not a player in 30 years of climate. The shortest precession cycle would be 1/4 of the 19,000 year cycle. Even precession has varying cycle lengths from 19,000 to 26,000 years.
How does that explain the current warming?
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#26868 Apr 27, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
How does that explain the current warming?


As I said, the Milankovitch Cycles are not a player in 30 years of warming. Or the 160 years of warming since the end of the LIA.

They are important if you are exploring the possibility of an extended holocene. Our interglacial started during the fall precession, had a full winter precession and is now moving into spring.

It is the beginning of spring in declining obliquity and eccentricity cycles. Glaciation will follow the low eccentric cycle.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#26869 Apr 27, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
How does that explain the current warming?
Excellent question to ask a fossil fuel poster.

Be certail it will give you more nonsense.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#26870 Apr 27, 2013
Correction: certain
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#26871 Apr 27, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
As I said, the Milankovitch Cycles are not a player in 30 years of warming. Or the 160 years of warming since the end of the LIA.
They are important if you are exploring the possibility of an extended holocene. Our interglacial started during the fall precession, had a full winter precession and is now moving into spring.
It is the beginning of spring in declining obliquity and eccentricity cycles. Glaciation will follow the low eccentric cycle.
LOL.
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#26872 Apr 27, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Excellent question to ask a fossil fuel poster.
Be certail it will give you more nonsense.
An excellent question? All questions are good and if they provide an answer to the inquiry that can be incorporated into the individual's knowledge base they are also revelant.

But in this case, I have answered this particular question every other post.

It's hard to imagine anyone who would be asking the same question each time they post unless the repetition is an indication of a real lack of knowledge therefore the question is totally out of context with the subject matter being discussed, as was the case here.

In the classroom, that's called bait and switch. When the student can't answer they ask another question to avoid answering that which they don't know.

In this case, the questioning poster asked a question that had nothing to do with the original post. I answered it. Then asked another question, I answered. Then he keeps asking the same question eventhough I answered it.

Then there's you. Your amazing intellectual ability has been demonstrated by the accolades you apply to the poster asking the same question again.

You guys couldn't come up with a decent discussion if someone wrote it out and all you had to do is "Read it".

Or more likely, cut and paste.
Bernard Forand

Cape Coral, FL

#26873 Apr 27, 2013
Interesting conversation. All I have to offer is that I perceive various factors contribute to the cycles of the past few Billon years. One strong contender is the distributions of the continents from their original super continents, as well as the super continents positions to polar regions. Sub categories of Volcanisms from standard volcanoes to super volcanoes had temporary radical effects on the world temperatures. Consider where the continents were when earth became snowball earth and when it became tropical earth. Gasses had a part as well. Although just to say CO2 is responsible is not accurate. Times were when CO2 was the dominate gas to the atmosphere. Both in tropical and ice age scenarios. Observe as a volcano spews its CO2, to our present day atmosphere, a cooling trend follows. I know reflecting sunlight by the clouds but then we are left with how did the earth cast off its highly reflective snow shield to become warmer.{Volcanism in hand with continental drift } Keep in mind at that time there was no free oxygen. CO2, Nitrogen, and Sulfur would have been the dominate gasses. Sun activity at that time was less than present. Presence in the orbital plain, of our solar system traveled through the Milankovitch Cycles and the processions of the wobbling earth also occurred for numerous times without effect on the snowball. Several millions of years frozen going through all of these sub categories of effects. It was not until the continents combined with the Volcanism did the snowball melt. Note first super continent had greater mass south of the equator as with the second break up, More evenly distributed, less than Artic, where ocean currents have a major roll in its existence. Where as the continent in the anti-artic is an insulating factor to the ice melt, that has been increasing. Giving to a lower rise to a tropical earth than past rapid accelerations between Ice and Tropics. Which according to the cycles is what we are approaching. As to man made Tara-forming by humans there are sciences presently addressing these issues and “IF” we can actually use them to say Tara-form Mars. Estimates presently are 200 to 400 years to inject various gases to retain an atmosphere. At 1/6 the earths gravity, this could prove to be a difficult continuous cycle for replenishment. LOL an Industrial planet?“If” we have achieved that Tara-forming ability with our industrial age, than with Mars we could have a chance. Now that would be an interesting experiment. How to distribute the H2O and the land masses as well as the various gases to make it sustainable for humans or not…
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#26874 Apr 27, 2013
The biggest problem with terra forming Mars is it's very low magnetic field. The mag field is so low the solar wind blows away the Martian atmosphere.
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#26875 Apr 27, 2013
Bernard Forand wrote:
Interesting conversation. All I have to offer is that I perceive various factors contribute to the cycles of the past few Billon years. One strong contender is the distributions of the continents from their original super continents, as well as the super continents positions to polar regions. Sub categories of Volcanisms from standard volcanoes to super volcanoes had temporary radical effects on the world temperatures. Consider where the continents were when earth became snowball earth and when it became tropical earth. Gasses had a part as well. Although just to say CO2 is responsible is not accurate. Times were when CO2 was the dominate gas to the atmosphere. Both in tropical and ice age scenarios. Observe as a volcano spews its CO2, to our present day atmosphere, a cooling trend follows. I know reflecting sunlight by the clouds but then we are left with how did the earth cast off its highly reflective snow shield to become warmer.{Volcanism in hand with continental drift } Keep in mind at that time there was no free oxygen. CO2, Nitrogen, and Sulfur would have been the dominate gasses. Sun activity at that time was less than present. Presence in the orbital plain, of our solar system traveled through the Milankovitch Cycles and the processions of the wobbling earth also occurred for numerous times without effect on the snowball. Several millions of years frozen going through all of these sub categories of effects. It was not until the continents combined with the Volcanism did the snowball melt. Note first super continent had greater mass south of the equator as with the second break up, More evenly distributed, less than Artic, where ocean currents have a major roll in its existence. Where as the continent in the anti-artic is an insulating factor to the ice melt, that has been increasing. Giving to a lower rise to a tropical earth than past rapid accelerations between Ice and Tropics. Which according to the cycles is what we are approaching. As to man made Tara-forming by humans there are sciences presently addressing these issues and “IF” we can actually use them to say Tara-form Mars. Estimates presently are 200 to 400 years to inject various gases to retain an atmosphere. At 1/6 the earths gravity, this could prove to be a difficult continuous cycle for replenishment. LOL an Industrial planet?“If” we have achieved that Tara-forming ability with our industrial age, than with Mars we could have a chance. Now that would be an interesting experiment. How to distribute the H2O and the land masses as well as the various gases to make it sustainable for humans or not…
I agree with your idea of geologic movement producing different climates. And that's different climates from only geologic movement, each time the continents moved, so did the ocean circulations.

The facinating thing about climate is how many different manifestations there are depending on the individual values of each of the climate functions.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#26876 Apr 27, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
As I said, the Milankovitch Cycles are not a player in 30 years of warming. Or the 160 years of warming since the end of the LIA.
They are important if you are exploring the possibility of an extended holocene. Our interglacial started during the fall precession, had a full winter precession and is now moving into spring.
It is the beginning of spring in declining obliquity and eccentricity cycles. Glaciation will follow the low eccentric cycle.
So, it does not explain the current warming. Thanks.
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#26878 Apr 28, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
So, it does not explain the current warming. Thanks.
The current warming is likely due to 100 molecules of CO2 Man has introduced into the air thus explaining the lack of cooling that science models predicts without AGW.
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#26879 Apr 28, 2013
If Man can reduce the CO2 in the air we can trigger the next Ice Age that all the science models suggest is overdue... thus saving Earth and all life on it from an average 2 degree C increase.
gcaveman1

Bay Springs, MS

#26880 Apr 28, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
If Man can reduce the CO2 in the air we can trigger the next Ice Age that all the science models suggest is overdue... thus saving Earth and all life on it from an average 2 degree C increase.
lyin brian doesn't agree with you.

Since: Mar 13

Alexandria, VA

#26881 Apr 28, 2013
Dont drink the koolaid wrote:
If Man can reduce the CO2 in the air we can trigger the next Ice Age that all the science models suggest is overdue... thus saving Earth and all life on it from an average 2 degree C increase.
Read "Fallen Angels".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Angels_ (science_fiction_novel)
Dont drink the koolaid

Minneapolis, MN

#26882 Apr 28, 2013
KitemanSA wrote:
<quoted text> Read "Fallen Angels".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallen_Angels_ (science_fiction_novel)
Wow, thanks for the link!!!
gcaveman1

Ellisville, MS

#26883 Apr 28, 2013
After years of studying every denier argument, researching them, and giving them their day in court, I find there is no point in going further. They all fall apart.

And diversions and smokescreens off to the side are just tactical distraction.

People who deny it isn't happening or that man isn't the cause aren't worth arguing with.

“I Luv Carbon Dioxide”

Since: Dec 08

Location hidden

#26884 Apr 28, 2013
There are no experimental tests of climate change mitigation; that's how you can tell it's a hoax.
litesong

Lynnwood, WA

#26885 Apr 29, 2013
[QUOTE who="lyin' brian"]...... that's how you can tell.......[/QUOTE]

"lyin' brian" could never tell its science & mathematics teachers the true answers. That is why "lyin' brian" has no science or mathematics degrees, & no science & mathematics for its poorly earned hi skule DEE-plooomaa.
Bernard Forand

Cape Coral, FL

#26886 May 2, 2013
Here is a suggestion for those that realize we are in an ever increasing runaway Hot House Planet.
FUN Facts; Agree that cost per serving of energy is increased. In time it will come to adjust. Remember when a computer was of vacuum tubes and three stories high and a block long? Then came the transistors! WOW we could carry in the palm of our hand a mathematical calculator. Transistor radios began to flourish. Rumors had it, soon we would have computers! Unbelievable! Yet here we are. Even in those days their were the reluctant skeptical. Evolution of technology never even paused to explain it to them, as they were soon to be their consumers.
Green is only going to get Greener. How about starting a small garden. Discover its enjoyment in simply observing its growth with just a little bit of Solar and love.
Recycle here has been made all but a law. Perhaps soon to be. My pet peeve that I focus on to recycle is PLASTICS! I do as well on other substances as they enter my realm. Hmm will our land fields soon to become a source for raw materials?
Now another part of this garden can also be; start collecting by bits. Nibbles, bite size Green energy systems. Electric battery powered lawn mower, weed whackers, air blowers, bicycles or someday an EV. Now if only you had a couple of solar panels hanging around to charge these new toys. LOL making your own fuel ! Wonder if they will pass a law making that bootlegging Moonshine or perhaps now it will be Sunshine.
Hmmm two ways to go gardening. Both require attention and patience in its acquirement and production. Once your garden settles in and does start to produce you may soon come to find, that after just a few years your gardens are producing more than you can consume.
All of this with far less of a CO2 footprint left behind for our children to follow.
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#26887 May 2, 2013
Bernard Forand wrote:
Here is a suggestion for those that realize we are in an ever increasing runaway Hot House Planet.
FUN Facts; Agree that cost per serving of energy is increased. In time it will come to adjust. Remember when a computer was of vacuum tubes and three stories high and a block long? Then came the transistors! WOW we could carry in the palm of our hand a mathematical calculator. Transistor radios began to flourish. Rumors had it, soon we would have computers! Unbelievable! Yet here we are. Even in those days their were the reluctant skeptical. Evolution of technology never even paused to explain it to them, as they were soon to be their consumers.
Green is only going to get Greener. How about starting a small garden. Discover its enjoyment in simply observing its growth with just a little bit of Solar and love.
Recycle here has been made all but a law. Perhaps soon to be. My pet peeve that I focus on to recycle is PLASTICS! I do as well on other substances as they enter my realm. Hmm will our land fields soon to become a source for raw materials?
Now another part of this garden can also be; start collecting by bits. Nibbles, bite size Green energy systems. Electric battery powered lawn mower, weed whackers, air blowers, bicycles or someday an EV. Now if only you had a couple of solar panels hanging around to charge these new toys. LOL making your own fuel ! Wonder if they will pass a law making that bootlegging Moonshine or perhaps now it will be Sunshine.
Hmmm two ways to go gardening. Both require attention and patience in its acquirement and production. Once your garden settles in and does start to produce you may soon come to find, that after just a few years your gardens are producing more than you can consume.
All of this with far less of a CO2 footprint left behind for our children to follow.
Yes, I remember when computers were buildings with elevated floors and climate control. I don't understand your connection to global warming.

My position is that climate change is the result of natural variability. Yes, man can impact climate in a limited manner in localized regions. A reservoir will change the surrounding climate a bit. Deforestation has climate impact. Irrigation also impacts local weather.

I have been posting about solar activity. I think based on my reasearch that our sun will go into very low activity and as a result our temps will cool. The cooling is expected to last at least thru this and the next two solar cycles.

This is part of the sun's pattern of activity. The pattern is based on historical observations and the barycentric orbit of the sun in relation to the earth's orbit.

2012 was the year designated by some solar physicists as the year we would notice the beginning of the climate change.

We will see.

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