Clean Energy Investment Falls 22% as Subsidy Cuts Stall Projects

There are 20 comments on the Apr 29, 2013, In El Dorado County story titled Clean Energy Investment Falls 22% as Subsidy Cuts Stall Projects. In it, In El Dorado County reports that:

The $40.6 billion invested in the industry in the first three months of this year was lower than any quarter since 2009 and compares with $52 billion in the same period last year.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at In El Dorado County.

First Prev
of 2
Next Last
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#1 Apr 29, 2013
In the real world, investments must make money.

Since: Mar 09

Wichita, KS

#2 Apr 29, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
In the real world, investments must make money.
Money is the root of all evil. The reason that market forces do not consider future social order. Government is a necessary evil to protect the welfare of the citizenry. Get over it. Many times subsidies are utilized for the common good. The space program is a shining example.
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#3 Apr 29, 2013
Patriot AKA Bozo wrote:
<quoted text>
Money is the root of all evil. The reason that market forces do not consider future social order. Government is a necessary evil to protect the welfare of the citizenry. Get over it. Many times subsidies are utilized for the common good. The space program is a shining example.
The space program is not private industry. Lots of contractors but the pogram is a government program that when it does need private industry puts RFPs out for bid.

Money is a medium. It is the method by which we trade our production for the production of others. We could just barter, but money allows us to place values on things that makes it easier for us to trade with one another.

Money is no more responsible for evil than a gun is responsible for someone's injury. It takes a person to be evil.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#4 Apr 29, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
In the real world, investments must make money.
Even if it comes from the public purse, like fossil fuels with their $50B a year 'help' from the politicians they buy...
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#5 Apr 29, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Money is no more responsible for evil than a gun is responsible for someone's injury. It takes a person to be evil.
Money is a medium of exchange. It does not really affect the TRANSACTION it facilitates. So money is not the evil. The evil is in selfish decisions by those with the current power in their own interest and not the publics.

Using money, we can encourage good behavior or reward bad behavior. It is up to US to deal with the 'big picture' and stop heaping praise on greed and excess. Money gets the blame but it is the decisons that are the 'medium of evil'. Like buying lobby groups to deny facts. Like buying a computer to post your crap..
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#6 Apr 29, 2013
We can use money to promote clean energy and safe environments or we can use money to promote air pollution, wars over oil, externalize health problems and coal mine deaths.

Problem is that they have chosen the latter.. Whatever you promote, don't complain when you get it..
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#7 Apr 29, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Even if it comes from the public purse, like fossil fuels with their $50B a year 'help' from the politicians they buy...
I am firmly in the no subsidy group, for anyone. But a subsidy is a tax function. I understand this thread to be about the direct 'investment' of taxpayer money into private industry.

Firmly opposed to 'investments' such as solyndra et al.
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#8 Apr 29, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>
Money is a medium of exchange. It does not really affect the TRANSACTION it facilitates. So money is not the evil. The evil is in selfish decisions by those with the current power in their own interest and not the publics.
Using money, we can encourage good behavior or reward bad behavior. It is up to US to deal with the 'big picture' and stop heaping praise on greed and excess. Money gets the blame but it is the decisons that are the 'medium of evil'. Like buying lobby groups to deny facts. Like buying a computer to post your crap..
Our government has no business or the right to "encourage good behavior" by the distribution of tax dollars.

I know it does, tax on tobacco is a good example. Remember, you're talking to a libertarian.

You cannot ascribe to me, the values of another, I make my own decisions. You can like them, you can not like them, it doesn't matter to me which way you go.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#9 Apr 29, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Our government has no business or the right to "encourage good behavior" by the distribution of tax dollars.
On the contrary. That is governments SOLE RESPONSIBILITY. And it carries it out by having a miliary to discourage 'wars of conquest', police to discourage antisocial behaviors like murder and theft, etc.

Government is the collective will of the public to prevent bad behavior and it has a responsibility TO the public. Otherwise, we go down to the 'triumph of greed and anarchy' that YOU desire.

I don't object to your political and economic delusions but the lies are a bit much..
Fun Facts

Las Cruces, NM

#10 Apr 29, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
<quoted text>

I don't object to your political and economic delusions but the lies are a bit much..
Well my view of government is different. I would ask you to please illustrate how I have 'lied'.

Just because you don't understand what I post doesn't make it a lie. Ignorance often sees liars. But there's a cure for that.

“Come Home America!”

Since: Nov 11

Claymont, Delaware 19809

#11 May 1, 2013
If Latin American countries , with some of the poorest economies on the planet, can think seriously about spending to avert climate change disaster then why can't the United States, with the third largest , wealthiest economy after China and the European Union, think about it? "The path back to climate stability — defined as 2 tons per capita of CO2 emissions in 2050 — lies mainly with aggressive land-use adjustments, including "widespread electrification of the transport sector," but also rethinking the region's energy pathways with lofty goals of vastly reduced energy demand (40 percent), ratcheting to 60-80 percent of primary energy mix from renewables, and 75-100 percent of electricity from low-carbon sources. Think those numbers are outrageous? The study says the "business-as-usual" scenario would require an additional $464 billion in financial expenditures annually by 2050 just to meet the region's projected rising energy demand." Check this out: http://www.renewableenergyworld.com/rea/news/...

“Come Home America!”

Since: Nov 11

Claymont, Delaware 19809

#12 May 1, 2013
Some things to know how to do for making it easier to cope in the coming Post-Petroleum world. Check this out: http://www.orionmagazine.org/index.php/articl...

“Come Home America!”

Since: Nov 11

Claymont, Delaware 19809

#13 May 1, 2013
America's drinking water is at risk of deadly toxins. Follow the link below to see why and take action to keep our water clean. We need you. http://ow.ly/eAulP

“Come Home America!”

Since: Nov 11

Claymont, Delaware 19809

#14 May 1, 2013
"Exxon's Pegasus pipeline is still turned off after their disastrous spill in Mayflower, Arkansas.

Despite that, it's still leaking -- a new spill was discovered today in Missouri. Check this out: http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/01/exx... Exxon never completely cleaned up their disastrous Exxon Valdez oil spill in Prince William Sound years ago or fully compensated the Alaska fishermen for the loss of their livelihood, why would anyone assume that they'd act responsibly today? Place economic sanctions on them, like on Iran or Syria, by cutting off the oil subsidy and imposing a heavy carbon tax. DOJ AG Eric Holder shouldn't read Exxon-Mobil executives their Miranda rights either because their environmental terrorism on American soil is equally bad, even worse, to the actions of the Tsarnaev Boston Marathon bombers.

“Come Home America!”

Since: Nov 11

Claymont, Delaware 19809

#15 May 1, 2013
Eric Zencey, Gund Fellow and author of " The Other Road to Serfdom" presents his keynote, "Energy as Master Resource" at the 4th Annual Biophysical Economics Conference. Zencey argued that energy should be considered as the foundation and largest variable in the economy and needs to be treated as such. http://youtu.be/MalPTY3Vrk8

“Come Home America!”

Since: Nov 11

Claymont, Delaware 19809

#16 May 1, 2013
The Renewable Energy Economy can't come at a more urgent time.''Bee-harming PESTICIDES BANNED in Europe!''
EU member states vote ushers in continent-wide suspension of neonicotinoid pesticides. ARTICLE: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2013/ap...
Europe will enforce the world's first continent-wide ban on widely used insecticides alleged to cause serious harm to bees, after a European commission vote on Monday.

And What about In the US? Whats killing all the bees is still considered a ''MYSTERY.''''Mystery Malady Kills More Bees, Heightening Worry on Farms'' http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/29/science/ear...

''The Agriculture Department says a quarter of the American diet, from apples to cherries to watermelons to onions, depends on pollination by honeybees. Fewer bees means smaller harvests and higher food prices.''

Many Pesticides are Petroleum-Oil based compounds. http://www.madehow.com/Volume-1/Pesticide.htm...
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index...
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#17 May 1, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Well my view of government is different.
Irrelevant. The facts are that all the things government is charged with are examples of the will of the people (which are the primary instigators of government) to restrain the self centered abuses of those who seek to profit from the pain of others. i.e exploiters, criminals, wars of conquest, etc. The facts are plain even if you cannot see them. I would think from the willful blindness that YOU are one of those restrained from such activities (i.e. like the owner of the garment factory in Bangladesh). Concerned only with your own benefit no matter how much it costs others.
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
I would ask you to please illustrate how I have 'lied'.
Your posts are littered with thousands of examples where you misrepresent, mislead and downright lie about AGW and the science. I have no interest in detailing them all. It is my opinion that it goes well beyond 'confusion' or 'error' into deliberately mendacious claims.
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Just because you don't understand what I post doesn't make it a lie.
I not only understand your posts, but why they are misleading, in error, or total fabrications. You have yet to post ONE claim that is even remotely reasoned.
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Ignorance often sees liars. But there's a cure for that.
You are NOT ignorant. Your endless 'creative bullshoot' is good evidence that you are putting a lot of effort into your lies to give them versimilitude to the masses of people not conversant with the science or without the reasoning skills to see why they are wrong. Such efforts clearly show that you are NOT ignorant or stupid but merely pathetic and anti-social.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#18 May 1, 2013
frontporchreactionary wrote:
Technology to the rescue. Farmers will soon be able to buy 'robot bees' to pollinate their fields.

http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/nstv/2013/0...

Of course, they may be some 'technical glitches' before they are fully operational. And the company that supplies them may have you by the short and curlies.. But that is Capitalism. Destroying natural systems so that corporations can establish a monopoly.
LessHypeMoreFact

Toronto, Canada

#19 May 1, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
I am firmly in the no subsidy group, for anyone.
I am generally opposed to subsidies that seek to make unprofitable industries profitable again, like coal mining in Nova Scotia. It 'preserves jobs' at a huge cost and is ineffective overall. Farm subsidies and the subsidies given to big oil and coal are examples of these.

But investment in NEW technology that needs help against the 'barriers to entry' market failures of modern economies is a different story. I applaud them but they should either be in 'pure research' such as NASA or in 'investment in infrastructure' such as the Rural Electrification Program.

One law I would like to see is a 'grandson' clause, where any subsidy granted by legislature must extend no more than ten years, and will be reduced each year by 10% or the initial sum. So that any subsidies that DO make it through politics will not become 'entrenched white elephants'.
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
But a subsidy is a tax function.[\QUOTE]

A distinction without much of a difference. All programs by government depend on taxes to implement. Taxes are the money we invest in government for defense, regulation of trade, promoting the economy, moderating harsh economic times, etc.

If I were to rail against a 'waste of taxpayer money' it would be for the 'unfunded wars' instituted by Bush. Neither justified the expense in money or lives, but mainly rewarded the military industrial complex with contracts (which is why unrestrained lobbying is ALSO am major evil).

[QUOTE who="Fun Facts"]<quoted text>
I understand this thread to be about the direct 'investment' of taxpayer money into private industry.
Investment in new technology is NOT a bad thing. The 'innovation' of Germany is why it is the success story of the EU even in bad times. The 'investment' of government in promoting it's large corporations have been why Japan has become the tech giant of the 21'st century. And the 'pure research' of things like NASA with their 'giveaway developments' has been one element that has kept the US economy strong. Canada has not prospered nearly so well because most basic research is promoted in the US by government grants and tax benefits so they keep the research in the US.
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
Firmly opposed to 'investments' such as solyndra et al.
Solyndra was 'blindsided' by the unfair trade of China. The investment was not a problem, and almost all 'investments' under the same program are success stories. http://tinyurl.com/c7bcp9j

The primary purpose of the act was to get business flowing and investing again. A hard thing given the gloom and doom of the post collapse business.

"The Recovery Act and other programs worked because they targeted funds toward a variety of specific job-creation efforts that have been shown to have created jobs and been cost-effective. "

But you want to downplay the success so go ahead. The 'buggy whip forever' cadre has always been defeated over time as progress moves forward.

“Come Home America!”

Since: Nov 11

Claymont, Delaware 19809

#20 May 2, 2013
This is unsettling that it's happening here in America. http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/05/02/1... "The ALEC-sponsored bill to gut North Carolina’s clean energy standard failed last week in one House committee. But as the Charlotte Observer reports, last night it passed a Senate committee over shouted objections to do something most people take for granted in a democracy — counting votes to see which side has more."... "The Senate bill would keep the utilities’ clean energy requirement at a laughable 3 percent and get rid of the mandate entirely by 2023. Utilities support the standard: Duke Energy has found that the clean energy promoted by the standard helps with peak load, is reliable, and makes a profit. North Carolina agriculture showed up to testify in favor of the standard, from farmers to the Pork Council.(Pork farmers would rather use the methane from swine waste lagoons to make energy instead of letting it waft into the atmosphere.)

Who opposed it? Mostly radical conservative groups like the Heartland Institute, the Koch Brothers, ALEC, Art Pope, the American Conservative Union, Americans for Tax Reform, and their friends in the North Carolina State Legislature."

Tell me when this thread is updated:

Subscribe Now Add to my Tracker
First Prev
of 2
Next Last

Add your comments below

Characters left: 4000

Please note by submitting this form you acknowledge that you have read the Terms of Service and the comment you are posting is in compliance with such terms. Be polite. Inappropriate posts may be removed by the moderator. Send us your feedback.

Alternative Energy Discussions

Title Updated Last By Comments
News Construction finishes on two floating mega-sola... 1 hr Minwoo Kim 1
News Tesla Motors Inc (TSLA) Success Could Benefit P... Sun Solarman 1
News Reid touts Nevada's advances as renewable energ... Sun Local 5
News US announces plans to reduce agricultural carbo... Apr 25 Sterkfontein Swar... 11
News Water Shortage Problem Solved With Solar Power?... Apr 25 Solarman 1
News Wind energy is cheaper, but interest in buildin... Apr 25 Sneaky Pete 11
News World's largest wind farm opens in West Texas (Oct '09) Apr 24 Timray 23
More from around the web