Proposal would lower amount of ethano...

Proposal would lower amount of ethanol and other biofuels required by law for first time

There are 10 comments on the Star Tribune story from Nov 15, 2013, titled Proposal would lower amount of ethanol and other biofuels required by law for first time. In it, Star Tribune reports that:

The Obama administration on Friday proposed to reduce the amount of ethanol in the nation's fuel supply for the first time, acknowledging that the biofuel law championed by both parties in 2007 is not working as well as expected.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Star Tribune.

LessHypeMoreFact

Orleans, Canada

#1 Nov 16, 2013
"But politicians who wrote the law didn't anticipate fuel economy to improve as much as it has in recent years, which reduced demand for gasoline."

So it is a victim of it's own success (allowing cleaner burning and more efficient engines). The issue here isn't the amount used for octane boosting but the amount to be generated as a separate 'biofuel' which isn't really the optimal use since the exergy gain is minimal.. And I have no great faith in the cellulose ethanol as being ready for large scale production.

And as noted by others, a reduction in the demand for ethanol in gas would lead to the already low prices for maize collapsing and leaving the farmers in bankruptcy. Not what we want..

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Fun Facts

Huntsville, AL

#2 Nov 16, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
"But politicians who wrote the law didn't anticipate fuel economy to improve as much as it has in recent years, which reduced demand for gasoline."
So it is a victim of it's own success (allowing cleaner burning and more efficient engines). The issue here isn't the amount used for octane boosting but the amount to be generated as a separate 'biofuel' which isn't really the optimal use since the exergy gain is minimal.. And I have no great faith in the cellulose ethanol as being ready for large scale production.
And as noted by others, a reduction in the demand for ethanol in gas would lead to the already low prices for maize collapsing and leaving the farmers in bankruptcy. Not what we want..
It's not our job to boost farmers income by doing something that is ineffective. That's pretty stupid.

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LessHypeMoreFact

Orleans, Canada

#3 Nov 16, 2013
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
It's not our job to boost farmers income..
And yet there are massive farm subsidies. It has to do with keeping prices low for the poor while still keeping farms in business. The problem is that the subsidies go to 'empty calorie' crops while wheat, soy, and corn. But then we also waste billions on subsidies to fossil fuels, so it isn't about subsidies either. This is about the PRICE paid to farmers (one reason is that there is a monopsony of buyers that can pressure for lower prices).
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
by doing something that is ineffective.
Any chemist in the industry can tell you that Ethanol IS effective as an octane booster and oxygenator. And it is less toxic as a bonus, while gaining some energy and reducing emissions. Also it has reduced the price of gas by reducing the necessary oil imports making supply closer to demand. But I will agree that it is ineffective as an intoxicant..
Fun Facts wrote:
<quoted text>
That's pretty stupid.
Most of your crap is.. also without fact or merit.

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Dennis

United States

#4 Nov 18, 2013
Not
litesong

Everett, WA

#5 Nov 18, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
Any chemist in the industry can tell you that Ethanol IS effective as an octane booster and oxygenator. And it is less toxic as a bonus, while gaining some energy and reducing emissions. Also it has reduced the price of gas by reducing the necessary oil imports making supply closer to demand.
//////////
litesong wrote:
With its high octane, THAT is why ethanol also needs high compression ratio (nearly as high as diesel) ethanol engines to extract its inherent power. Surprisingly high numbers of low compression ratio gasoline engine drivers report, while using(not burning) 10% ethanol blends, a 10% drop in mpg. In their particular gasoline engines, the ethanol provides NO power. One fellow had 115,000 miles of records comparing gasoline to 10% ethanol blends. Numerous Prius drivers have also reported 10% mpg decreases when using(not burning) 10% ethanol blends. In a large majority of gasoline engines, mpg drops of 8%, 7%, & 5% are reported, when using(not burning) 10% ethanol blends.

Considering ethanol isn't providing burning(or little burning) in a majority of low compression ratio gasoline engines, its supposed lack of toxicity, & products of combustion(or non-combustion) might be re-examined in light of its poor performance.

With its poor performance & lack of mpg, coupled with oil intensive use to produce ethanol, ethanol has INCREASED, NOT DECREASED oil imports. Why do you believe that the oil industry hasn't squawked about ethanol in gasoline stocks? Its because the oil industry knows that the ethanol industry's ethanol stocks in the nation's gasoline stocks, ISN'T CUTTING OIL IMPORTS & OIL INDUSTRY PROFITS are INCREASED.

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litesong

Everett, WA

#7 Feb 1, 2014
albedodown wrote:
Bill to repeal mandate to pump ethanol into our nation's gasoline supplies.
http://thehill.com/blogs/regwatch/energy-envi...
Within the Farm Bill, passed by the House, is a provision that effectively cripples blending of ethanol into gasoline stocks. From the article:
Wednesday's vote does not guarantee the subsidy cut will become law, but there is little opponents of the provision can do to stop it. The Senate is expected to vote on the same version of the bill as early as next week, at which point it will go to President Obama for signing into law.
Leaders of the House and Senate agriculture committees have said they expect the resident will sign the bill.

http://www.cattlenetwork.com/cattle-news/Farm...

This could be it. I can't believe it moved so fast. This is incredible!

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litesong

Everett, WA

#8 Feb 2, 2014

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Visitor

Bethlehem, PA

#9 Feb 2, 2014
Alright! So they realize killing corn pollutes more, bad for the cars, and taking more fuel and pollution to kill the corn. We are on our way.....

Since: Jan 14

Location hidden

#10 Feb 2, 2014
Hey, ethanol mixed with gasoline makes us use more gas, win win, I have lots of stock in petroleum, I win when my stocks sell more oil to you users of oil. LOL I hope you global warming idiots keep up the good work, we need more of you to preach the word, no matter how false it is. I am making money on the globul warming scam. Get to work you AGM idiots.

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litesong

Everett, WA

#14 Jul 6, 2014
albedodown wrote:
...... pure-gas.org , which promotes & lists sources dispensing 100%(ethanol-free) gasoline has escalated from less than 2000 listings many years ago, to 4800 listings less than two years ago, to 7700+ listings presently.
pure-gas.org listings for 100% gasoliine were 7700 in early February, 2014. About the end of May, they rose to 8000. Now 7 weeks later, listings jumped over 2% to 8175!!! Even fuel restrictive California has a few more stations selling 100% gasoline. Wisconsin, with 709 listings, comprise 8.7% of all U.S. & Canadian listings. Florida, with repeal of some 100% gasoline restrictions, has increased ~ 10% over the last few months.

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