What ocean heating reveals about glob...

What ocean heating reveals about global warming

There are 32 comments on the RealClimate story from Sep 25, 2013, titled What ocean heating reveals about global warming. In it, RealClimate reports that:

The heat content of the oceans is growing and growing. That means that the greenhouse effect has not taken a pause and the cold sun is not noticeably slowing global warming.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at RealClimate.

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“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#1 Sep 25, 2013
How strange that the "missing heat" has been found in deep ocean.

Even more strange, a build up of heat in deep ocean is a new discovery, albeit as yet unproven.
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#2 Sep 25, 2013
Earthling-1 wrote:
How strange that the "missing heat" has been found in deep ocean.
Even more strange, a build up of heat in deep ocean is a new discovery, albeit as yet unproven.
Still haven't clued in that the heat was never 'missing', just misplaced (not in the AIR)? Education continues but you are a very POOR student. Probably since kindergarten..

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#3 Sep 25, 2013
I guess this is what happens when 79 out of 79 model predictions turn out to be wrong. Make up another excuse that will take decades to prove or disprove and keep on with your shrill warnings that only YOUR program can save the would. All we have to do is give them total control.

Yawn.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#4 Sep 25, 2013
KitemanSA wrote:
I guess this is what happens when 79 out of 79 model predictions turn out to be wrong. Make up another excuse that will take decades to prove or disprove and keep on with your shrill warnings that only YOUR program can save the would. All we have to do is give them total control.
Yawn.
Read #7 and more at:

http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/05/07/1...

P.S. Another science denier.

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#5 Sep 25, 2013
KitemanSA wrote:
I guess this is what happens when 79 out of 79 model predictions turn out to be wrong. Make up another excuse that will take decades to prove or disprove and keep on with your shrill warnings that only YOUR program can save the would. All we have to do is give them total control.
Yawn.
Christy and Spencer made their case by comparing the outputs of 73 climate models to satellite temperature measurements, and showing that the models seemed to predict more warming than has been observed. But the comparison was not of surface temperatures, or of the lowermost layer of the atmosphere, or even any measurement global average temperatures. They specifically looked at measurements of the temperature of the middle troposphere (TMT) in the tropics.

There's certainly nothing wrong with examining this particular subset of temperature data, but it's a bit of an odd choice on the face of it. The real problem lies in the fact that satellite measurements of TMT are highly uncertain. In fact, estimates of the TMT trend by different scientific groups vary wildly, despite using the same raw satellite data.

Another problem is that the stratosphere (the layer of the atmosphere above the troposphere) is cooling – an expected consequence of the increased greenhouse effect. But some of the cooling stratosphere bleeds into the TMT data, leading to another cool bias. While there is a discrepancy between model simulations and measurements of tropical troposphere temperatures, it's not clear how much (if any) is due to the models being wrong, and how much is due to errors in the measurements. As a U.S. Climate Change Science Program report co-authored by John Christy concluded,

"This difference between models and observations may arise from errors that are common to all models, from errors in the observational data sets, or from a combination of these factors. The second explanation is favored, but the issue is still open."

However, in mainstream media interviews and editorials, Christy and Spencer always fail to mention the possibility that the problem could lie more in the measurements than the models, which frankly is intellectually dishonest.

http://www.theguardian.com/environment/climat...

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#6 Sep 25, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Read #7 and more at:
http://thinkprogress.org/climate/2013/05/07/1...
P.S. Another science denier.
A "government science" doubter. Too much "government science" is just politics these days. Why would anyone in their right mind support ITER. The eater of funds and the eater of reason.

I was wondering how IPCC would handle the lack of surface temperature rise. "Oh, its all hidden below". Great comeback. NOT.

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#7 Sep 25, 2013
Error bars will work for a small number, but when ALL models are off there is a more fundamental reason... like, they have no idea what they are modeling?
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#8 Sep 25, 2013
KitemanSA wrote:
<quoted text> A "government science" doubter. Too much "government science" is just politics these days. Why would anyone in their right mind support ITER. The eater of funds and the eater of reason.
I was wondering how IPCC would handle the lack of surface temperature rise. "Oh, its all hidden below". Great comeback. NOT.
Did you just wake up?

Science is not done with you <a nobody in science> watching over. Is it soup yet?

Science is also not done according to your prescription.

If you have science findings, publish them in a science journal. I bet you don't. You just want to whine like a science denier.

How many times I posted that man-made global warming means also climate change, ocean acidification, species extinction, climate refugees, sealevel rise, habitat loss, extreme events, food shortages, yet unknown possibilities, and others.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#9 Sep 25, 2013
KitemanSA wrote:
Error bars will work for a small number, but when ALL models are off there is a more fundamental reason... like, they have no idea what they are modeling?
Aww publish what you know.. LOL.
SpaceBlues

Houston, TX

#10 Sep 25, 2013
SpaceBlues wrote:
<quoted text>Did you just wake up?
Science is not done with you <a nobody in science> watching over. Is it soup yet?
Science is also not done according to your prescription.
If you have science findings, publish them in a science journal. I bet you don't. You just want to whine like a science denier.
How many times I posted that man-made global warming means also climate change, ocean acidification, species extinction, climate refugees, sealevel rise, habitat loss, extreme events, food shortages, yet unknown possibilities, and others.
Add heat waves, droughts, floods,..
Cut n Paste

Eden Prairie, MN

#11 Sep 26, 2013
Nature disagrees. For $200.00 you can find out for yourself that the waters are cooling and that Man made CO2 is not the main driver of our climate.

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v501/n74...

Editor's summary in &#1575;&#1604;&#15 93;&#1585;&#1576;& #1610;&#1577;

Global warming has largely stalled since the late 1990s, raising concerns regarding our understanding of climate sensitivity, the underlying mechanisms influencing climate variability and the ability of climate models to represent decadal variability. Yu Kosaka and Shang-Ping Xie show that the warming hiatus, including most of its seasonal and spatial aspects, can be resolved when observations of recently observed cooling in the eastern equatorial Pacific are directly incorporated into a climate model. The results suggest that the current hiatus is a normal instance of internal climate variability, and that long-term warming is likely to resume as greenhouse gas concentrations continue to increase."
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#12 Sep 26, 2013
Cut n Paste wrote:
Nature disagrees.
You do not speak for 'nature'. If anyone, science speaks for nature.
Cut n Paste wrote:
For $200.00 you can find out for yourself that the waters are cooling and that Man made CO2 is not the main driver of our climate.
http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v501/n74...
Science has shown that AGW has NOT slowed even if the SURFACE waters are cooler due to upwelling of cooler water in the Pacific (ENSO, La-Nina)
Cut n Paste wrote:
Editor's summary: The results suggest that the current hiatus is a normal instance of internal climate variability, and that long-term warming is likely to resume as greenhouse gas concentrations continue to increase."
The summary agrees that the 'hiatus' in AIR temperatures is due to 'climate noise' and the underlying warming is continuing with much of the thermal energy going into the deep ocean.

The fundamental of AGW is that the Earths SURFACE retains more heat energy and thus warms up. It does NOT say that the warming will be universal or evenly distributed. It happens that ocean and land is 98% of the thermal mass and so small shifts in distribution will cause LARGE changes in AIR temperature. A fact which is termed 'climate variability'. But that is irrelevant to the robust and well documented increase in the SUM of the thermal energy (and therefore average surface temperature).

Since: Mar 13

Location hidden

#13 Sep 26, 2013
But government science speaks for those who would abuse government to control us. And the whole climate fiasco is driven by government science.
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#14 Sep 26, 2013
KitemanSA wrote:
But government science speaks for those who would abuse government to control us. And the whole climate fiasco is driven by government science.
There is no 'government science' in the west. Science is run by the academics and funding is obtained by 'third party' and independent authorities with no political clout.

Now, if you were talking about Russia...
http://tinyurl.com/l44he6m

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#15 Sep 27, 2013
LessHypeMoreFact wrote:
Still haven't clued in that the heat was never 'missing', just misplaced ...
Explain the difference between misplaced and missing?
Then watch this clip of dear Kevin squirming:
Where's the missing heat? Kevin Trenberth (NCAR)
LessHypeMoreFact

Etobicoke, Canada

#16 Sep 27, 2013
Earthling-1 wrote:
<quoted text>Explain the difference between misplaced and missing?
Misplaced means that it is there but we didn't see it because we were looking elsewhere.

Missing means that it isn't there.

Glad I could help. Any other words you need help with?

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#17 Sep 27, 2013
LessFactMoreHype wrote:
Misplaced means that it is there but we didn't see it because we were looking elsewhere.
Missing means that it isn't there.
Glad I could help. Any other words you need help with?
Now ask yourself why Trenberth used the word "missing" instead of misplaced?

Since: Apr 08

"the green troll"

#18 Sep 27, 2013
Earthling-1 wrote:
<quoted text>Explain the difference between misplaced and missing?
Then watch this clip of dear Kevin squirming:
Where's the missing heat? Kevin Trenberth (NCAR)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v =868nr1Pgxw0XX
Bit out of date.

http://www.npr.org/2013/08/23/214198814/the-c...

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#19 Sep 27, 2013
FuGyou wrote:
Bit out of date.
Pay attention, we're discussing the use of a word.

“Happy, warm and comfortable”

Since: Oct 10

Mountain retreat, SE Spain

#20 Sep 27, 2013
NoFactAllHype wrote:
Misplaced means that it is there but we didn't see it because we were looking elsewhere.
Missing means that it isn't there.
Glad I could help. Any other words you need help with?
Update for you, Mr Undoubtably Spelt Fourty:
miss·ing
Adjective
(of a thing) Not able to be found because it is not in its expected place.
Not present or included when expected or supposed to be.
-
mis·placed
Adjective
Incorrectly positioned.
Not appropriate or correct in the circumstances: "misplaced priorities".

Glad I could help. Any other words you need help with?

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