Was it intelligence or arrogance?

Full story: Orlando Sentinel

Jeb Bush 's tenure revisited What Mike Thomas calls Jeb Bush's intelligence, I call arrogance.
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21 - 40 of 42 Comments Last updated Jan 23, 2009
Margo

Sanford, FL

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#21
Dec 8, 2008
 

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Is there anything more hilarious than 'I know what's good for people' liberals complaining about 'arrogance'?

It is a curious fact that a whole lot of parents support school vouchers, but of course the Liberal Democratic party has a vested interest in perpetuating ignorance and poverty. Also the Teachers' Union is a big contributor.
Mike

Orlando, FL

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#22
Dec 8, 2008
 
Margo wrote:
Is there anything more hilarious than 'I know what's good for people' liberals complaining about 'arrogance'?
It is a curious fact that a whole lot of parents support school vouchers, but of course the Liberal Democratic party has a vested interest in perpetuating ignorance and poverty. Also the Teachers' Union is a big contributor.
So the striking down of school vouchers had nothing to do with the fact that it was going to have taxpayer money directed to private and religious schools?
Gator

United States

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#23
Dec 8, 2008
 

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Margo wrote:
Is there anything more hilarious than 'I know what's good for people' liberals complaining about 'arrogance'?
It is a curious fact that a whole lot of parents support school vouchers, but of course the Liberal Democratic party has a vested interest in perpetuating ignorance and poverty. Also the Teachers' Union is a big contributor.
Yes, there is something more amusing--neoconservatives trying to project their own sense of "arrogance" (i.e. continuing to impose their beliefs on others even after a FL Supreme Court ruling), while ignoring their misguided efforts are an infringement on separation of church and state.

Jeb Bush has unfortunately shown too much diregard for the rule of law IMHO.
Margo

Sanford, FL

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#24
Dec 10, 2008
 

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Mike wrote:
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So the striking down of school vouchers had nothing to do with the fact that it was going to have taxpayer money directed to private and religious schools?
Oh the horror! Much, much better that children should be left in failing Public Schools then they should be exposed to religion, even their own and chosen by their parents.

Oddly enough neither Clinton nor Obama seems to have any problem with a Quaker school for their girls despite not being Quakers.

The establishment clause has been stretched all out of proportion. It was only intended to prevent the establishment of a Church of America not silence all religious speech.

BTW, for the record, I am NOT a Christian.
Mike

Orlando, FL

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#25
Dec 10, 2008
 

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Margo wrote:
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Oh the horror! Much, much better that children should be left in failing Public Schools then they should be exposed to religion, even their own and chosen by their parents.
Oddly enough neither Clinton nor Obama seems to have any problem with a Quaker school for their girls despite not being Quakers.
The establishment clause has been stretched all out of proportion. It was only intended to prevent the establishment of a Church of America not silence all religious speech.
BTW, for the record, I am NOT a Christian.
But you have the same capability to miss the point.

Money collected through taxes being paid by the government to private or religious schools was the issue. It wasn't what was taught at the schools that was the issue.

Please accept this shovel so you can extercate your head from the sand.
Watchdog

United States

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#26
Dec 10, 2008
 
Mike wrote:
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And appeals can be run all the way up to SCOTUS. So what is the problem?
If you don't see the problem, then you have no solutions.
Mike

Orlando, FL

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#27
Dec 10, 2008
 
Watchdog wrote:
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If you don't see the problem, then you have no solutions.
The purpose of the courts is to be the check against any law put on the books to verify it is constitutional. Unfortunately, they can not just pick laws at random and judge them. A case has to be brought before the courts effected by the law(s) to be analyzed.

When it comes to bad laws that come out of legislative bodies and from populous votes, the courts are the solution.
Margo

Sanford, FL

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#29
Dec 10, 2008
 

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Mike wrote:
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But you have the same capability to miss the point.
Money collected through taxes being paid by the government to private or religious schools was the issue. It wasn't what was taught at the schools that was the issue.
Sure it was. No consideration whatsoever was given to the Teachers Unions' opposition or the threat of failing to indoctrinate the next generation in Liberal ideology.

Mike

Orlando, FL

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#30
Dec 10, 2008
 

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Margo wrote:
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Sure it was. No consideration whatsoever was given to the Teachers Unions' opposition or the threat of failing to indoctrinate the next generation in Liberal ideology.
Even if it was, the fact that directing tax money to religious schools was unconstitutional still exists. Even if the decision was made in a political vacuum, it would have been struct down.
Walter In FL

Inverness, FL

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#31
Dec 10, 2008
 

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Mike wrote:
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Exactly how it is the Judge's fault for doing their job and stating something is unconstutional?
You want to blame people for Florida substandard education system, look who we have elected to State government and the people who put them there. When the budget needs blancing, education is one of their favorite places to slash from.
The big death spiral I saw for the Florida public education system started when the con was executed by Tally to have the voters approve the Florida Lottery as a meens to fund the school system and then was made by the legislature the majority funding source.
Mike

I totally agree with you that is was "bait-and-switch" con on the citizens of Florida.
Observer

United States

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#32
Jan 5, 2009
 
Mike wrote:
<quoted text>
The purpose of the courts is to be the check against any law put on the books to verify it is constitutional. Unfortunately, they can not just pick laws at random and judge them. A case has to be brought before the courts effected by the law(s) to be analyzed.
When it comes to bad laws that come out of legislative bodies and from populous votes, the courts are the solution.
In the real world of courts, any judge based on his/her personal political agenda can find any law unconstitutional. That is why judicial philosophy is so very important when judges are appointed.
Walter In FL

Inverness, FL

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#34
Jan 5, 2009
 
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
In the real world of courts, any judge based on his/her personal political agenda can find any law unconstitutional. That is why judicial philosophy is so very important when judges are appointed.
I sometimes wonder if all judges should be elected. It appears that most appointed judges are select for their political ideology.

That is why both parties are so interested, in being in power so they can select the line-up for their agendas. Therefore, I believe the voters should be the ones to select the line-up. With some question. it appears to be a more democratic process.

The judiciary branch should be an independent from influence of the executive and legislative branches, but the politicians and judges have crossed that line.

By electing all judges, the citizens select their judiciary, legislature, and executive branches.
Walter In FL

Inverness, FL

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#35
Jan 5, 2009
 
To re-phrase my last sentence:

By electing all judges, the citizens select their judiciary, legislature, and executive branches at all level of government,(city, county, state, federal).
Mike

Orlando, FL

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#36
Jan 7, 2009
 
Observer wrote:
<quoted text>
In the real world of courts, any judge based on his/her personal political agenda can find any law unconstitutional. That is why judicial philosophy is so very important when judges are appointed.
True. Which is why there is an appeals process in the court system.

Reguardless of whether judges are appointed or elected, their opinion and point of view is the basis for their decisions. The only thing electing them provides is a means for the public to remove a judge from office. The way they make their decisions will be the same.

My concern with having all judges elected the same way we elect our politicians is having all three branches of government leaning the same way at the same time. I see the checks and balances aspect becoming less useful if judges can be hand picked for their political views every couple years.

There needs to be differing of opinions for the checks and balances to be effective.
kadamson

O Donnell, TX

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#37
Jan 7, 2009
 

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Margo wrote:
<quoted text>
Oh the horror! Much, much better that children should be left in failing Public Schools then they should be exposed to religion, even their own and chosen by their parents.
Oddly enough neither Clinton nor Obama seems to have any problem with a Quaker school for their girls despite not being Quakers.
The establishment clause has been stretched all out of proportion. It was only intended to prevent the establishment of a Church of America not silence all religious speech.
BTW, for the record, I am NOT a Christian.
Well, Hallelujiah and Amen Sister anyway. You must have some history up your sleeve somewhere.
Margo

Sanford, FL

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#38
Jan 14, 2009
 
Being educated in 1960s and 70s California schools would turn ANYBODY against the Public School System.
Walter In FL

Inverness, FL

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#39
Jan 14, 2009
 
Mike wrote:
<quoted text>
True. Which is why there is an appeals process in the court system.
Reguardless of whether judges are appointed or elected, their opinion and point of view is the basis for their decisions. The only thing electing them provides is a means for the public to remove a judge from office. The way they make their decisions will be the same.
My concern with having all judges elected the same way we elect our politicians is having all three branches of government leaning the same way at the same time. I see the checks and balances aspect becoming less useful if judges can be hand picked for their political views every couple years.
There needs to be differing of opinions for the checks and balances to be effective.
Mike
I agree with you. There needs to be a voters' recall improvement at all levels. The legislators appear they can not handle any recall process. The hold system needs to be accountable to the voters at all levels of government.
kadamson

O Donnell, TX

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#40
Jan 22, 2009
 
Lester wrote:
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Cupcake, while I agree with you about the Bushes arrogance & air of superiority, I'm not so sure it applies to ALL of the Bush Clan.
For example, I remember reading an interview in "Rolling Stone" magazine about 4 years ago with Garry Truedeau of "Doonesbury" fame, who pointed out that he went to Yale at the same time Dubya was going there (Dubya being 2 years ahead), and had a good chance to observe first hand the new generation of Bushes, and that based on what he'd witnessed over the last few decades, he came to the conclusion that unlike their father, George, John Elias aka "Jeb", and Neal all were woefully deficient in the spirit of noblesse obligee and humilty that their parents had evidently tried, but failed, to instill into them. And the more I got to thinking about it, the more I came to the conclusion he was right about it.
So I for one ascribe their collective arrogance, condescension, and sense of entitilement to being the moral deficiencies of this particlar generation of Bushes, and not to the entire family.
Oh, is this the Garry Trudeau of the elite private school education and the entrenched society of Saranac Lake? He felt the baseball playing, cheerleading, George Bush lacked humility? Well...darn - that is an indictment of character - Garry must have been a dweeb.
Watchdog

United States

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#41
Jan 23, 2009
 
Mike wrote:
<quoted text>
True. Which is why there is an appeals process in the court system.
Reguardless of whether judges are appointed or elected, their opinion and point of view is the basis for their decisions. The only thing electing them provides is a means for the public to remove a judge from office. The way they make their decisions will be the same.
My concern with having all judges elected the same way we elect our politicians is having all three branches of government leaning the same way at the same time. I see the checks and balances aspect becoming less useful if judges can be hand picked for their political views every couple years.
There needs to be differing of opinions for the checks and balances to be effective.
Yes, there are appeals courts. However, it is expensive to have an attorney argue an appeal. Only the rich and those represented by public defenders can generally afford to take an appeal. I believe difference of opinions in judges is not good and settle law is more desirable so that people will generally know their rights, obligations and responsibilities without having to litigate anew every issue and dispute.
kadams

Slaton, TX

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#42
Jan 23, 2009
 

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Walter In FL wrote:
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Mike
I agree with you. There needs to be a voters' recall improvement at all levels. The legislators appear they can not handle any recall process. The hold system needs to be accountable to the voters at all levels of government.
It is. Vote them in. Vote them out. Don't like an appointee? Vote out the appointer, get a new appointee.

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