Applicants outnumber school vouchers

Applicants outnumber school vouchers

There are 31 comments on the DispatchPolitics story from Apr 19, 2011, titled Applicants outnumber school vouchers. In it, DispatchPolitics reports that:

For the second year in a row, applicants to Ohio's private-school voucher program have exceeded the number of available vouchers.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at DispatchPolitics.

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Native Alien

Middlesboro, KY

#1 Apr 19, 2011
Could you please do an article that shows what a public school receives per student versus what the voucher pays? I am wondering if it is the same amount. In other words, does the public school get the same amount of money per student that the voucher pays? If so, why are the public schools that these students should be attending performing so poorly?

Since: Feb 11

Roy, WA

#2 Apr 19, 2011
And the burglars outnumber homeowners in many places. Your point is....?
BornLib

Dublin, OH

#3 Apr 19, 2011
@Native Alien

According to the US Census Bureau, Ohio spent an average of $10,173 per Public Elementary-Secondary School student in the 2008 fiscal year. That number goes is higher now, naturally.
Native Alien

Middlesboro, KY

#4 Apr 19, 2011
Thank you BornLib.

That causes me to question what is the success rate of the schools that are vouchered into and why the public school performance is so poor?
Nada

Columbus, OH

#5 Apr 19, 2011
Native Alien wrote:
Thank you BornLib.
That causes me to question what is the success rate of the schools that are vouchered into and why the public school performance is so poor?
Well, you also have to keep in mind that the private schools receive other funding besides the tuition/voucher amount. For example, my kids attend a Catholic school that receives funding from our parish, as well as donation money that public schools would not receive. Private schools also receive non-religious services that are paid for my public dollars (i.e. speech therapist, school nurse, school psychologists, non-religious text books, etc.). They also don't bear the cost of educating those students who have severe learning or physical disabilities and attend specialized schools that cost exponentially more than a traditional school.
Joe

Columbus, OH

#6 Apr 19, 2011
Native Alien wrote:
Could you please do an article that shows what a public school receives per student versus what the voucher pays? I am wondering if it is the same amount. In other words, does the public school get the same amount of money per student that the voucher pays? If so, why are the public schools that these students should be attending performing so poorly?
One major reason why public schools need more money per pupil, is they don't have the ability to expel students (other than extreme cases), and they have to provide services to disabled or those with learning difficulties, plus they provide services to those who do not speak English as their primary language. With the Columbus public schools you also end up with a bunch of administrative costs to manage such a big system. My understanding is that Columbus Public has more money per classroom than any other district in Central Ohio, but they have more pupils per classroom because their administrative burden is higher, and they have the English Second Language schools where there are as few as 5 pupils to a specialty teacher who is bilingual and thus paid more than a standard teacher.

The standard private/charter school can choose to not offer services to students with issues (my brother was dyslexic, the private catholic school he started school in had nothing to help him, so he had to move to a public school to get help), their teachers have no union protections (which add costs), and they can expel any student if they prove too disruptive.
not the enemy

Columbus, OH

#7 Apr 19, 2011
With 21% of charter schools deemed "effective" by the State Dept. of Ed. and 73% of public schools deemed effective I guess I know where I would want my tax dollars placed. Instead of dividing the dollars why not put the millions given to for profit schools back into public education?

A large group of students who are enrolled in charter schools were expelled, suspended, or failing in public schools due to their own devices. Yet that fact escapes the media and public.

Folks wonder why districts need levy after levy but the redistribution of funds to for profit entities keeps draing the funds for public schools. Add to that the the cost of unfunded mandates by the legislature, the fact that public schools must provide transportation for charter school students TO their charter school, it is little wonder why districts require more dollars.

At the very least the level the playing field between charter and public schools. Give each the same mandates to follow, let each provide transportation for their own students, and open the charter school accounting books to the public as the public schools currently do.
mark

Columbus, OH

#8 Apr 19, 2011
I never understand why these favor low income people. My wife and I are among the growing number of professional class people living in the central city areas. We'd love to stay for a while but I'll be damned to let my children go to school with all the other little ghetto rats up the street and learn their ways. I'm also not going to pay my (very substantial) property/school tax as well as tuition at a private school. The only option is to move to the suburbs. If more vouchers were available, more like me might stay after we have children.
Spooey

Cleveland, OH

#9 Apr 19, 2011
Everyone wants out of the public schools, maybe all education should be done through vouchers and privatization.
fiery buddha

Columbus, OH

#10 Apr 19, 2011
It TOTALLY SUCKS that my tax dollars go to private, RELIGIOUS schools. Boo to the voucher program - it's not making our system better.
Trump2012

Reynoldsburg, OH

#11 Apr 19, 2011
Well this story is a shock, isn't it? Who WANTS to send their kids to some ghetto thug prep academy for the state penal institutions like Columbus Public? Instead of waiting for your "voucher", go get an extra part-time job like my wife and I each have so we can send our kids to a private school and not have to worry about all the "urban diversity" effecting our kids.
fox mulder

Columbus, OH

#12 Apr 19, 2011
want to see how your schools are performing for the dollars spent got to www.compareohioschools.org
Joe

Columbus, OH

#13 Apr 19, 2011
mark wrote:
I never understand why these favor low income people. My wife and I are among the growing number of professional class people living in the central city areas. We'd love to stay for a while but I'll be damned to let my children go to school with all the other little ghetto rats up the street and learn their ways. I'm also not going to pay my (very substantial) property/school tax as well as tuition at a private school. The only option is to move to the suburbs. If more vouchers were available, more like me might stay after we have children.
What you will quickly learn Mark, is that property tax per 100k is double or more in the suburbs, and there are plenty of those "ghetto rats" who live in the suburbs too, since their parents want to improve their kids lives, but haven't figured out moving to a new district isn't enough, you actually have to get involved with your kids. After all, if you expect your kids to get their full education at school, then you have already failed them. They should learn far more at home than they do at school.

I live in Columbus because it cuts down my commute time, and it keeps my taxes lower, so I can better afford private school tuition, because there isn't a public district in Central Ohio that I want my kids attending. I learned my lesson from a relative who bought a nice house in Powell, located in the Worthington Kilbourne district. He pays his high property tax, his inflated mortgage, and spends that extra 30-60 minutes each day commuting to downtown, and ultimately he ended up paying for private school when he realized the difference in quality between private vs public, even in an affluent area.

I use the time saved on my commute to be involved in every activity my kids get into, to read to them, and to do stuff with them. That is worth far more than any school can do for them.
not the enemy

Columbus, OH

#14 Apr 19, 2011
Spooey wrote:
Everyone wants out of the public schools, maybe all education should be done through vouchers and privatization.
Not everyone wants out of public schools. The district I live in is one of the highest rated in the state. That also means it has some of the highest paid teachers, administrators and taxes. Quality costs money, period! You cannot buy a Lexus for Kia prices!

If the state would fix funding as it was required to do under DeRolph in 1997 when it was found that the system was unconstitutional, rather than give away millions to for profit schools, maybe quality would come to some of those challenged schools.

What people need to realize is that the quality of education for the poor, rural counties will never be the same as the affluent districts; as it is for Upper Arlington and Columus City Schools. Two completely different mindsets exist among these socioeconomic groups as to what is a "quality education". This is based upon demographic makeup and values of each group, accordingly a "quality and equal" education will never be the norm betwist these groups, however, an equality in funding can be implemented to ensure all students have access to the same curriculum and instruction.
Concern Citizen

Canal Winchester, OH

#15 Apr 19, 2011
Native Alien wrote:
Thank you BornLib.
That causes me to question what is the success rate of the schools that are vouchered into and why the public school performance is so poor?
It has nothing to do with performance and everything to do with privatizing.
Cry babies

United States

#17 Apr 19, 2011
Anything that gives parents more options to educate their children has to be good for the children, I'm all for it.
Vicki Kerman

Mansfield, OH

#18 Apr 19, 2011
Not the Enemy said, "What people need to realize is that the quality of education for the poor, rural counties will never be the same as the affluent districts."

Wrong.

I went though and looked at all 610 Ohio public school districts and compared them on a measure of productivity, namely performance (according to ODE standards) as a function of per pupil expenditures.

The four top ranking districts are all in rural areas, and districts you've probably never heard of ... Bethel-Tate SD (which is upstate, near Cincinnati); Hicksville SD (west of Toledo); James A. Garfield SD in Garrettville (east of Akron); and Louisville City SD (near Canton). These schools achieve great results (according to the ODE standards) with the least amount of per pupil expenditures. Districts like UA, Bexley, Granview Heights, Granville, etc. achieve similar results BUT their cost per pupil is, in some cases, double that of these schools. Yes, they have lacrosse and crew teams and violin concerts, but if we're we're looking at academic performance alone,they trail the most effective districts. http://www.compareohioschools.org/Top-Ranking...

2. There are over 135 school levy and/or bond issues on this May's ballot. http://www.compareohioschools.org/May_2010_Sc... Many are "additional" (i.e. above the millage they're already getting). If I'm living in (and paying taxes for) a school district which is not using my money wisely (i.e. has a low performance per pupil expenditure), how is throwing more money at these districts going to improve their effectiveness? It's not. We need to look at those districts throughout the state which are being fiscally effective (e.g. the four mentioned above), identify what they're doing right, and apply those strategies in other districts throughout the state.

One final point.

In spite of what appear to be rising ODE performance for Ohio schools over the last 10 years, Ohio school districts' performance on national tests (e.g. ACT) have actually FALLEN on an inflation-adjusted per pupil expenditure basis. http://www.compareohioschools.org/ACT_Scores....
How can ODE performance for schools throughout the state appear to be making progress when in reality when compared with national averages they've gone the other way?

If you want to see where your district stands, go to http://www.compareohioschools.org
Bill

Columbus, OH

#19 Apr 19, 2011
people - please learn the difference between the terms "charter" and "private" school before you spout off and show ignorance.
Common-Sense

Columbus, OH

#20 Apr 19, 2011
Bill wrote:
people - please learn the difference between the terms "charter" and "private" school before you spout off and show ignorance.
+1 - there is a BIG difference between the failing charters and private schools like the Diocese of Columbus Catholic schools!
Balls Deep

Grove City, OH

#21 Apr 19, 2011
Fire Gene Harris.

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