School voucher proposal sparks concern

Full story: York Dispatch 35
A state school board organization is opposing a recently introduced bill that would make it easier for students to get out of a failing school using a tuition tax credit. Full Story
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Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#25 Feb 2, 2011
End public schools wrote:
No school vouchers and NO public school system. If you CHOOSE to have children, then financially plan for their education. Property owners are tired of being taxed out of their homes to pay for your children. Education is no more a right then health care. You had them - you pay for them.
Hey, know what? I LIKE this idea! Maybe then parents will take their kids a little more seriously. And we won't have to put up with the whiners who breed and then unleash their spawn to the public to care for.
Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#26 Feb 2, 2011
Katie wrote:
<quoted text>What a spitefull hatefull posting.People do pay for education and health thats what tax is for but if you want working people to pay for every thing out of their own pocket then iam sure the government and state governments can up the national minimum wage to 30-40 thousand dollors a year now that would give right wing bigots like you some thing to moan about well tough.
It's clueless responses like this that have OUR country in the mess it's in. By the way, how's that working out for you U.K.?
Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#27 Feb 2, 2011
ThomasA wrote:
After the students start bailing out of a school district,look for a new lawsuit requiring the school board to provide bus transportation and expenses on and above what is covered with the vouchers for the poor kids. The "Leave no child behind program" will do just that. The problem students will be allowed by law to follow you to another district. It would be better to stop running and turn around and face the problems and remedy them.
Once more, don't blame the PARENTS, kids and schools for THAT. Blame the damned government sticking its nose in every part of life.
Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#28 Feb 2, 2011
ThomasA wrote:
After the students start bailing out of a school district,look for a new lawsuit requiring the school board to provide bus transportation and expenses on and above what is covered with the vouchers for the poor kids. The "Leave no child behind program" will do just that. The problem students will be allowed by law to follow you to another district. It would be better to stop running and turn around and face the problems and remedy them.
Oh, and your LAST statement? Give me a break. Unless you have super compliant children ain't gonna happen. KIDS WON'T WAIT for YOU to get your act together. They grow up fast and I and my wife for one refused to sacrifice OUR children on the alter of your stubborness.
Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#31 Feb 2, 2011
Just a thought wrote:
The ideals behind this system are present in the City. Charter schools popped up and they claim to be open to and for all that apply, just like these so called vouchered schools. The breaks is that they take only those they feel will serve the school well, and deny or "wait-list" those that are not up-to-par.
The winter break just concluded not long ago, and the Charter kids flow back into the public schools. These are the kids that didn't cut it or were discovered to have a need too "special" for them to want to deal with.
Other states have already tried the voucher system and within a few years the stopped the program. Many private (religion-based) schools, are not approved for this program unless they are willing to change and allow more government control... which rarely happens.
The moral is that if you dislike the public school system, then pay for your kids to go to a private school. Many offer grants and scholarships, so apply if you're low-income and see what happens.
Then don't expect us to pay for your saggy assed system. Why should these poor kids have to settle for second best?
Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#32 Feb 2, 2011
mark wrote:
School taxes are so low around here that taxpayers may as well pay twice--once for the public schools, and again for the vouchers.
Or, we could do away with the public schools altogether since they don't work at all, and send all the kids to those schools taking the vouchers, and rename "school tax" to "school voucher tax."
"Low"? Where is your comparison?

Since: Jun 07

Allentown Pa

#33 Feb 2, 2011
Question Authority wrote:
<quoted text>
Excuse ME, but it is not merely YOUR tax money. It is part of EVERYONES property tax. The property tax that YOU pay, that portion is YOURS to educate your children. But, it's kind of like a pool. If you have more kids than your property tax covers, others pay YOUR tax.
Besides, if people would step BACK and really take a look at it, they'd realize that education for their children, is not a MATTER of money, but of attitude. Yes buildings, teachers and supplies cost money; but beind the scenes is a bloated bureaucracy that being supported too. Numerous cuts could be done and STILL preserve education.
As I said in another thread, it has been broken down how much a good education costs for EACH child per year. And believe it or not, you can get just as good an education, if not BETTER homeschooling or going to a private school FOR LESS. I've spent a decade studying this.
If parents and kids have the right ATTITUDE toward education, money is not much of an issue; especially when we have life, the internet and libraries to rely on.
That "studying" you did doesn't account for the children involved. Kids in Allentown on a whole are failing. But children with parental involvement do just fine and some go to very excellent colleges. The fact that Parkland and East Penn do much better isn't a surprise. Typically those higher up the social ladder will have children that achieve at a higher level. Mainly because the parents are more involved and expect more of their children. Those in private school and homeschooled obviously have parents that are more involved. But you'll be hard pressed to find a private school in this area that tests any better than East Penn or Parkland. But compared to the inner city schools, it's a no brainer. In over all numbers schools with a high concentration of children from poor broken homes just can't compete with those in private schools and the homeschooled.

Since: Jun 07

Allentown Pa

#35 Feb 2, 2011
Taxes are relatively low, especially considering they are written off in your federal income taxes.
Man in Black

Washington, DC

#36 Feb 2, 2011
Question Authority wrote:
<quoted text>
Ah, from "Washington, D.C."? Now you know why common people are so fed up with you people. So are you a member of the NEA?
no York, PA. IF you have been on there boards any amount of time you should know that the locations is not accurate. Wife is a teacher.
mark

King Of Prussia, PA

#37 Feb 2, 2011
We all have an interest in the children of our state and nation receiving excellent educations--it's vital for competing in the world markets. If our public schools are not performing adequately, they ought to be fixed, and not abandoned and populated with students from poor families while additional money is spent on "alternative" schooling.

Out of curiosity, WHY are commenters using SO many uppercased words in a SEEMINGLY random manner? Next thing you know, we'll be seeing multiple exclamation marks!!!!!1!
Dan Wever

United States

#42 Feb 3, 2011
Question Authority wrote:
<quoted text>
Quite frankly it ISN'T fair for those who are old or with no children to have to pay for the education of others unless they WANT to and realize the need.
Once again, you are focused, not on education, but money. Sorry I've WORKED for the school system once and I know the fluff they still have. They don't want that precious amount taken from them. In fact, they act like spoiled children when it comes to more tax time. In our area education makes up more than 50% of our property taxes, they get REQUIRED "donations" from commercial enterprises like your local grocery store, they get monies from the federal government, and lastly from the "lottery" of your state if you have one. So MY wonder is just how much is enough? When I see them spend monies that could have been spent on a teacher's salary or supplies for free pizza parties and to employ 'guest speakers' for the counselors and children it makes me wonder.
It's despicable that these bureaucrats USE the kids in this manner to satisfy their greed. What the kids really NEED cannot be measured in money, but in attention and discipline and in more inspirational study.
I think a lot of people are missing the main point of this thread.

First of all Public Education is what made this country great. When you paying for Public Education it is just like paying for fire and police protection. You are not paying for "YOUR" children but rather the Public Education TAX.

No one should be exempt from these payments just like people would not be able to deny police or fire protection.

Any other policy paying taxpayer money other than public education will result in an elitist society for sure.

But we do need to work to improve public education and this could be accomplished by turning the students back over to the teachers and quit running the schools from the Central Offices.
tlludwig

Dallas, TX

#43 Apr 1, 2011
Concerned Taxpayer wrote:
NO, NO, NO - In no uncertain terms do I want my tax money used to issue school vouchers. If someone wants to send their child to private school that is their choice, but I do not want my tax dollars paying for it. Yes, some public schools need improvement, but issuing vouchers is not the answer.
I don't agree with school vouchers either however; something has got to give in this country. I can tell you that I'm tired of paying property tax (that rise every year even when the housing market is in the tank). I'm pulling my children out of public school next year to protect them from all the bs: drugs, gangs, teen pregnancy, bullying, and worst of all school bureaucracy. All of which completely goes against my core values and what I want instilled upon my kids.

Do away with property tax, let parents keep their own money and decide where they want to send their children. Free market! Let schools compete, raise the bar. Stop making single people responsible for other peoples kids--they pay property tax regardless. This would solve the illegal immigration student problem as well. Let them pay for their kids to go to school on their own damn dime.

Of course this is going to be an uphill battle since property taxes are collected at the local government level. I think the feds need to butt out of education all together.
tlludwig

Dallas, TX

#44 Apr 1, 2011
Dan Wever wrote:
<quoted text>
I think a lot of people are missing the main point of this thread.
First of all Public Education is what made this country great. When you paying for Public Education it is just like paying for fire and police protection. You are not paying for "YOUR" children but rather the Public Education TAX.
No one should be exempt from these payments just like people would not be able to deny police or fire protection.
Any other policy paying taxpayer money other than public education will result in an elitist society for sure.
But we do need to work to improve public education and this could be accomplished by turning the students back over to the teachers and quit running the schools from the Central Offices.
Sorry. No one should be forced to pay for other peoples kids to go to school. Its called socialism--and its wrong. Free market would raise the bar because schools would have to compete with each other for students. And give me a break already, "public education is what has made this country great". What a load of BS. Our first president, George Washington was home schooled; his formal education ended around the age of 15.

Since: Jun 07

Allentown Pa

#45 Apr 1, 2011
tlludwig wrote:
<quoted text>
Sorry. No one should be forced to pay for other peoples kids to go to school. Its called socialism--and its wrong. Free market would raise the bar because schools would have to compete with each other for students. And give me a break already, "public education is what has made this country great". What a load of BS. Our first president, George Washington was home schooled; his formal education ended around the age of 15.
It's not socialism. If public schools are socialism, then so is the highway system, police, fire protection, national and state parks, postal service, sidewalks, air travel (regulated by FAA), public water and sewer, museums, libraries, beaches, zoos, municipal garbage and recycling services, Treatment at Any Hospital or Clinic That Ever Received Funding From Local, Stateor Federal Government (pretty much all of them, Medical Services and Medications That Were Created or Derived From Any Government Grant or Research Funding (again, pretty much all of them), Socialist Byproducts of Government Investment Such as Duct Tape and Velcro (Nazi-NASA Inventions), Use of the Internets, email, and networked computers, as the DoD's ARPANET was the basis for subsequent computer networking, Foodstuffs, Meats, Produce and Crops That Were Grown With, Fed With, Raised With or That Contain Inputs From Crops Grown With Government Subsidies, just to name a few.
Free market would not work better. Private schools can pick and choose the kids that attend. What school is going to take the poor kids from broken homes? Do they get left behind to become criminals and eternal draws on welfare and other social services? How about challenged kids? What school will take them and bring down their averages? NONE.
Many people are perfectly happy with the schools their children are in. Many people move to certain towns and areas just so their kids can go to a certain school.
Even Thomas Jefferson and Alexander Hamilton hardly socialists, spoke about the use of taxes for the general welfare and included things like public education as necessary for the general welfare of the nation.
mark

Spring Grove, PA

#46 Apr 2, 2011
@#42:

You are exactly right.

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