School voucher proposal sparks concern

Full story: York Dispatch 35
A state school board organization is opposing a recently introduced bill that would make it easier for students to get out of a failing school using a tuition tax credit. Full Story
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Concerned Taxpayer

Philadelphia, PA

#1 Jan 21, 2011
NO, NO, NO - In no uncertain terms do I want my tax money used to issue school vouchers. If someone wants to send their child to private school that is their choice, but I do not want my tax dollars paying for it. Yes, some public schools need improvement, but issuing vouchers is not the answer.
parents should choose

York, PA

#2 Jan 21, 2011
It's not only your tax money, but also the parent of that child who is suffering because the system is broken. I vote YES to vouchers, at least the parents can determine the best steps for their child's education. Give the rights back to the parent. Parents of children that already attend private schools pay both the taxes that everyone else pays, as well as the additional tuition, because they take back their rights in selecting a place for their child that is best for their family. Why not give that opportunity to all parents?
Concerned Taxpayer

Philadelphia, PA

#3 Jan 21, 2011
You have missed the whole point. Parents have the right to send their child to private school. Just don't ask me to help pay the tuition. I'm sorry if the parents can't afford it.I can't afford a fancy car or expensive house, but I'm not expecting you to buy things for me with tax dollars.
Man in Black

Washington, DC

#4 Jan 21, 2011
parents should choose wrote:
It's not only your tax money, but also the parent of that child who is suffering because the system is broken. I vote YES to vouchers, at least the parents can determine the best steps for their child's education. Give the rights back to the parent. Parents of children that already attend private schools pay both the taxes that everyone else pays, as well as the additional tuition, because they take back their rights in selecting a place for their child that is best for their family. Why not give that opportunity to all parents?
Public schools are just that. Free to the public.(free as in no tuition costs) Parents ALWAYS have the choice to send their child elsewhere, charter schools, or home school. To say that parents who send their kids to private school still have to pay taxes also would include people who have no children who pay those taxes. If it is unfair to the former what would it be for the later?

Vouchers would only bring a struggling system further down. then when the charters and private schools start to fail for the same reasons a public schools and they close up shop (that's right they are privately owned and operated they can close at the drop of a hat) without notice dumping hundreds of kids BACK into a public school system. A School system that would then be far worst than it is now due to lack of funds, facilities, and staff. Let us not forget that public schools are mandated to be available. We can not easily close them up entirely.
Get Real

Bowling Green, KY

#5 Jan 21, 2011
Man in Black get some facts. Public schools have misappropriated funds for generations. Public dollars are spent in private industry everyday. Education is and will no longer be the sacred cow that it always has... Open it up to the free market. I guarantee you will get better results in the long term. Anything is better then the failure you have now.
Ed Stem

Lehighton, PA

#6 Jan 22, 2011
Our commitment is to educate our children. We have several options in place to provide that promised education. Unfortunately, there are taxpayer funded, public schools that, for a variety of reasons, have been unable to achieve our goal for the children that are assigned to attend them.

This plan liberates the poorest children (Family income meets 130% of the federal poverty level). Their family's poverty is what keeps them trapped in these failing schools. York City schools would qualify. Their outcomes are abysmal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_City_School... .

It is very telling that most of the teachers in these failing schools, live in another community so that their children are not sentenced to endure the mediocrity of these failing schools.

I would expect the teachers in these failing schools, who so often complain about class size, would be pleased to see enrollment decline.

The teachers in these failing schools often blame the poor parenting. Well rejoice when those "bad" parents take their kids elsewhere.

Teachers in these failing schools blame badly behaving kids for the problems. They should back this bill. Those kids will enroll elsewhere and no longer disrupt their classroom.

Indeed, there is much in this plan for teachers in the bottom 5% of schools to celebrate and embrace. Their issues are being addressed. They'll have smaller class sizes and many of the problem parents will be gone!

Bottom line. After 15 years of pouring billions of dollars and countless hours of professional support into these schools, it s time to empower the parents and to liberate the kids.

The teachers and the schools have proven conclusively that they cannot educate these kids. Agreed.

I believe it can be done. Let someone else do it.
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Man in Black

Washington, DC

#7 Jan 28, 2011
Get Real wrote:
Man in Black get some facts. Public schools have misappropriated funds for generations. Public dollars are spent in private industry everyday. Education is and will no longer be the sacred cow that it always has... Open it up to the free market. I guarantee you will get better results in the long term. Anything is better then the failure you have now.
What facts are those? Free market? Kind of like all those military contractors? yeah that will save money. Education by the lowest bidder?
End public schools

Lancaster, PA

#8 Jan 28, 2011
No school vouchers and NO public school system. If you CHOOSE to have children, then financially plan for their education. Property owners are tired of being taxed out of their homes to pay for your children. Education is no more a right then health care. You had them - you pay for them.
Katie

UK

#9 Jan 28, 2011
End public schools wrote:
No school vouchers and NO public school system. If you CHOOSE to have children, then financially plan for their education. Property owners are tired of being taxed out of their homes to pay for your children. Education is no more a right then health care. You had them - you pay for them.
What a spitefull hatefull posting.People do pay for education and health thats what tax is for but if you want working people to pay for every thing out of their own pocket then iam sure the government and state governments can up the national minimum wage to 30-40 thousand dollors a year now that would give right wing bigots like you some thing to moan about well tough.
ThomasA

Gadsden, AL

#10 Jan 28, 2011
After the students start bailing out of a school district,look for a new lawsuit requiring the school board to provide bus transportation and expenses on and above what is covered with the vouchers for the poor kids. The "Leave no child behind program" will do just that. The problem students will be allowed by law to follow you to another district. It would be better to stop running and turn around and face the problems and remedy them.

Since: Jun 07

Allentown Pa

#11 Jan 29, 2011
End public schools wrote:
No school vouchers and NO public school system. If you CHOOSE to have children, then financially plan for their education. Property owners are tired of being taxed out of their homes to pay for your children. Education is no more a right then health care. You had them - you pay for them.
So basically what YOU are saying is you don't want to pay for others education AFTER YOUR education has been paid for by others. Sorry, it doesn't work that way.
Just a thought

Biglerville, PA

#15 Jan 30, 2011
The ideals behind this system are present in the City. Charter schools popped up and they claim to be open to and for all that apply, just like these so called vouchered schools. The breaks is that they take only those they feel will serve the school well, and deny or "wait-list" those that are not up-to-par.

The winter break just concluded not long ago, and the Charter kids flow back into the public schools. These are the kids that didn't cut it or were discovered to have a need too "special" for them to want to deal with.

Other states have already tried the voucher system and within a few years the stopped the program. Many private (religion-based) schools, are not approved for this program unless they are willing to change and allow more government control... which rarely happens.

The moral is that if you dislike the public school system, then pay for your kids to go to a private school. Many offer grants and scholarships, so apply if you're low-income and see what happens.
mark

King Of Prussia, PA

#16 Jan 30, 2011
School taxes are so low around here that taxpayers may as well pay twice--once for the public schools, and again for the vouchers.

Or, we could do away with the public schools altogether since they don't work at all, and send all the kids to those schools taking the vouchers, and rename "school tax" to "school voucher tax."
York City taxpayer

Lancaster, PA

#17 Jan 30, 2011
mark wrote:
School taxes are so low around here that taxpayers may as well pay twice--once for the public schools, and again for the vouchers.
Or, we could do away with the public schools altogether since they don't work at all, and send all the kids to those schools taking the vouchers, and rename "school tax" to "school voucher tax."
The "school taxes" that I pay are not so "low" as to allow me to pay them and private school tuition, my home has lost value and I'm unsure that I can find a buyer for it. The current system of tuition relief does not provide access to educational opportunity because most schools set up their financial aid programs to "give the most families tuition relief" which in reality means that they use aid to shave 10% off of everyones tuition and keep their tuition beyond the reach of all but the wealthiest families in our area. Our public schools in York City are unwilling to deal with the discipline problems that lead to their classrooms being disrupted to the point that education at the middle and high school levels are severely compromised. The current charter schools in York City are not posting results that offer us any hope either. Vouchers may not be the answer I know that my family will not qualify for them but at least some families would receive a chance at finding a school where their children can learn in a safe environment.

If the choice is support vouchers and see one child helped or vote against vouchers and continue with the status quo I hope that a voucher bill is passed into law. I don't care if the school providing an opportunity for a child to learn in a safe environment prays to Jesus, Allah or the UN when the other option is to doom them to attending Hannah or William Penn.
Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#18 Feb 2, 2011
Concerned Taxpayer wrote:
NO, NO, NO - In no uncertain terms do I want my tax money used to issue school vouchers. If someone wants to send their child to private school that is their choice, but I do not want my tax dollars paying for it. Yes, some public schools need improvement, but issuing vouchers is not the answer.
Excuse ME, but it is not merely YOUR tax money. It is part of EVERYONES property tax. The property tax that YOU pay, that portion is YOURS to educate your children. But, it's kind of like a pool. If you have more kids than your property tax covers, others pay YOUR tax.

Besides, if people would step BACK and really take a look at it, they'd realize that education for their children, is not a MATTER of money, but of attitude. Yes buildings, teachers and supplies cost money; but beind the scenes is a bloated bureaucracy that being supported too. Numerous cuts could be done and STILL preserve education.

As I said in another thread, it has been broken down how much a good education costs for EACH child per year. And believe it or not, you can get just as good an education, if not BETTER homeschooling or going to a private school FOR LESS. I've spent a decade studying this.

If parents and kids have the right ATTITUDE toward education, money is not much of an issue; especially when we have life, the internet and libraries to rely on.
Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#19 Feb 2, 2011
Concerned Taxpayer wrote:
You have missed the whole point. Parents have the right to send their child to private school. Just don't ask me to help pay the tuition. I'm sorry if the parents can't afford it.I can't afford a fancy car or expensive house, but I'm not expecting you to buy things for me with tax dollars.
YOU are not paying the tuition for private schools. They are. So who's paying for YOUR kids?
Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#20 Feb 2, 2011
Man in Black wrote:
<quoted text>
Public schools are just that. Free to the public.(free as in no tuition costs) Parents ALWAYS have the choice to send their child elsewhere, charter schools, or home school. To say that parents who send their kids to private school still have to pay taxes also would include people who have no children who pay those taxes. If it is unfair to the former what would it be for the later?
Vouchers would only bring a struggling system further down. then when the charters and private schools start to fail for the same reasons a public schools and they close up shop (that's right they are privately owned and operated they can close at the drop of a hat) without notice dumping hundreds of kids BACK into a public school system. A School system that would then be far worst than it is now due to lack of funds, facilities, and staff. Let us not forget that public schools are mandated to be available. We can not easily close them up entirely.
Quite frankly it ISN'T fair for those who are old or with no children to have to pay for the education of others unless they WANT to and realize the need.

Once again, you are focused, not on education, but money. Sorry I've WORKED for the school system once and I know the fluff they still have. They don't want that precious amount taken from them. In fact, they act like spoiled children when it comes to more tax time. In our area education makes up more than 50% of our property taxes, they get REQUIRED "donations" from commercial enterprises like your local grocery store, they get monies from the federal government, and lastly from the "lottery" of your state if you have one. So MY wonder is just how much is enough? When I see them spend monies that could have been spent on a teacher's salary or supplies for free pizza parties and to employ 'guest speakers' for the counselors and children it makes me wonder.

It's despicable that these bureaucrats USE the kids in this manner to satisfy their greed. What the kids really NEED cannot be measured in money, but in attention and discipline and in more inspirational study.
Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#21 Feb 2, 2011
Man in Black wrote:
<quoted text>
Public schools are just that. Free to the public.(free as in no tuition costs) Parents ALWAYS have the choice to send their child elsewhere, charter schools, or home school. To say that parents who send their kids to private school still have to pay taxes also would include people who have no children who pay those taxes. If it is unfair to the former what would it be for the later?
Vouchers would only bring a struggling system further down. then when the charters and private schools start to fail for the same reasons a public schools and they close up shop (that's right they are privately owned and operated they can close at the drop of a hat) without notice dumping hundreds of kids BACK into a public school system. A School system that would then be far worst than it is now due to lack of funds, facilities, and staff. Let us not forget that public schools are mandated to be available. We can not easily close them up entirely.
Ah, from "Washington, D.C."? Now you know why common people are so fed up with you people. So are you a member of the NEA?
Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#22 Feb 2, 2011
Get Real wrote:
Man in Black get some facts. Public schools have misappropriated funds for generations. Public dollars are spent in private industry everyday. Education is and will no longer be the sacred cow that it always has... Open it up to the free market. I guarantee you will get better results in the long term. Anything is better then the failure you have now.
You go, "get real". It's about time these lazy cows were responsible for what they're given and learn to 'make do' with what they have LIKE THE REST OF US.
Question Authority

Dumfries, VA

#23 Feb 2, 2011
Ed Stem wrote:
Our commitment is to educate our children. We have several options in place to provide that promised education. Unfortunately, there are taxpayer funded, public schools that, for a variety of reasons, have been unable to achieve our goal for the children that are assigned to attend them.
This plan liberates the poorest children (Family income meets 130% of the federal poverty level). Their family's poverty is what keeps them trapped in these failing schools. York City schools would qualify. Their outcomes are abysmal http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/York_City_School... .
It is very telling that most of the teachers in these failing schools, live in another community so that their children are not sentenced to endure the mediocrity of these failing schools.
I would expect the teachers in these failing schools, who so often complain about class size, would be pleased to see enrollment decline.
The teachers in these failing schools often blame the poor parenting. Well rejoice when those "bad" parents take their kids elsewhere.
Teachers in these failing schools blame badly behaving kids for the problems. They should back this bill. Those kids will enroll elsewhere and no longer disrupt their classroom.
Indeed, there is much in this plan for teachers in the bottom 5% of schools to celebrate and embrace. Their issues are being addressed. They'll have smaller class sizes and many of the problem parents will be gone!
Bottom line. After 15 years of pouring billions of dollars and countless hours of professional support into these schools, it s time to empower the parents and to liberate the kids.
The teachers and the schools have proven conclusively that they cannot educate these kids. Agreed.
I believe it can be done. Let someone else do it.
report abuse vote down vote up
Don't follow your last line, but pretty much agree with what you said, which supports my theory that it's NOW all about the money.

I might add that our kids attended BOTH public and private schools during their academic lives and they fared better in the private ones.

One BIG reason, believe it or not, was that (and parents need to open their ears to this) PRIVATE SCHOOLS DO NOT HAVE TO ACCEPT YOUR TUITION OR YOUR CHILDREN, IF they determine that the child(ren) cannot properly behave.

In order to learn, you MUST be disciplined. You MUST be ready to be quiet and listen, to ASK and COMMENT in an ORDERLY fashion, and to do the work required of you, etc.. I think you get my drift.

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