Editorial: Bringing charter schools into balance?

It took a couple of decades, but we wonder if sentiments might be starting to turn when it comes to the charter school movement in Pennsylvania. Full Story
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Dave

Chambersburg, PA

#1 Apr 6, 2010
Like anything, it became a way to scam the system.

We provide a system of public education which is free.

This is your option. Take it or leave it but if you leave it, you are on your own.

Stop all payments - especially the cyber school fiasco.

It is costing our local districts hundreds of thousands of dollars.
DO YOU KNOW

Chambersburg, PA

#2 Apr 6, 2010
Dave,

Do you really know anything about Cyber School? It actually costs less. Most of the books are on the computer. Lunch is provided at home. One teacher can communicate with many more students than a traditional classroom, at one time. Parents must play an active role in their childs education. All of these are definate pluses. Maybe you should check into it.
ontarget

Englewood, CO

#3 Apr 6, 2010
The parents of private and charter school students pay school taxes, so it is not inappropriate to 'subsidize' them.
Teh public school bureaucrats and their union masters want complete control over education in PA., even at the cost of giving our kids a mediocre education.
ontarget

Englewood, CO

#4 Apr 6, 2010
Dave wrote:
Like anything, it became a way to scam the system.
We provide a system of public education which is free.
This is your option. Take it or leave it but if you leave it, you are on your own.
Stop all payments - especially the cyber school fiasco.
It is costing our local districts hundreds of thousands of dollars.
"It is costing our local districts hundreds of thousands of dollars."

The money belongs to the taxpayers (property owners), not the union-run, mediocre school districts.
Richy Rich

Muncy, PA

#5 Apr 6, 2010
Of course Dave would be against it. It takes the control and power away from the system.
Dave

Chambersburg, PA

#6 Apr 6, 2010
DO YOU KNOW wrote:
Dave,
Do you really know anything about Cyber School? It actually costs less. Most of the books are on the computer. Lunch is provided at home. One teacher can communicate with many more students than a traditional classroom, at one time. Parents must play an active role in their childs education. All of these are definate pluses. Maybe you should check into it.
Do you really think that taking 40 or 50 kids out of a district reduces their cost?

I pay for the public school system. Use it or you are on your own.

Buy your own computer & software.
Dylan

Akiruno, Japan

#7 Apr 6, 2010
Dave wrote:
Like anything, it became a way to scam the system.
We provide a system of public education which is free.
This is your option. Take it or leave it but if you leave it, you are on your own.
Stop all payments - especially the cyber school fiasco.
It is costing our local districts hundreds of thousands of dollars.
I graduated from a Cyber School, my education was better than I ever received from the public school classroom. I still had actual teachers I could communicate with, as well as not being bothered by everyone else in the class. I still had friends, as well as being able to have a job, and in the end I got a normal diploma like the rest of Pennsylvania's graduating students. My local school district may of had to pay $7000 for my tuition, but do you know how much it costs them for me to go to their school. If cyber schools are hurting the district so much, you think they would try and solve the problems causing the students to leave.
Dave

Chambersburg, PA

#8 Apr 6, 2010
ontarget wrote:
<quoted text>
"It is costing our local districts hundreds of thousands of dollars."
The money belongs to the taxpayers (property owners), not the union-run, mediocre school districts.
Unions don't run the schools. The representatives you elect do.

Run for the board & vote down the teacher contracts.

I don't agree with a lot of things in our educational system. But taking money out is not the answer.

We need to pay teachers based on performance. We need a better way of funding education so each district doesn't spend hundreds of thousands of dollars writing for grants.

If your public education was mediocre - look in the mirror buddy. That's where the problem was. There is a great education waiting for the motivated.

Take it or leavre it. Don't expect me to pay for your snot nosed brat to sit at home infont of a computer.
been

Carlisle, PA

#9 Apr 6, 2010
CASD has issues. Check their test scores and online ratings (Try GoodSchools.com )There have been multiple reports of violence in the middle school and junior high school a few resulting in hospital visits, but the police are not notified. The in-school administration turns a blind eye, the teachers are either a part of the problem or ignore it all together.
People can't just move to another district.
IF the district can't be competent then parents SHOULD have the right to provide for their children using other means.
Fordguy

Harrisburg, PA

#10 Apr 6, 2010
Time, as usual, to inject some badly needed facts into the discussion.
Dave wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really think that taking 40 or 50 kids out of a district reduces their cost?
The wrong question. The proper question is whether cyber charter schools waste tax dollars or are represent a more efficient use of tax dollars. The evidence strongly points to the latter.

The cyber charter school suggests a better funding model for education - namely, the money should follow the CHILD, instead of being automatically being funneled to the school district. It should be painfully apparent that the "one size fits all" approach to public education is simply not working for a substantial number of students, both in Pennsylvania and throughout the nation.

Cyber charter schools also spend more on what is supposed to be the purpose of public education - actually educating the child.

School districts spend 11 times the total cost of cyber schools on construction and debt alone. School districts’ construction spending more than doubled from 1996-97 to 2006-06. Instructional spending increased 51 percent in this time.

The revenue that school districts are supposedly "losing" when a child goes to a cyber charter school (more on that latter) isn't necessarily being spent on improving education for the child. School districts with more revenue available spend a higher percentage of their funding on construction and a lower percentage on instruction.
Dave wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really think that taking 40 or 50 kids out of a district reduces their cost?
Again, the wrong question.

All school districts receive a 50 percent subsidy for charter school students in their district.

Thus, school districts are receiving money for a child that they no longer educate.

The key question - in regards to cost - is whether cyber charter schools SAVE TAXPAYERS MONEY.

On average, cyber charter schools spend only $8,300 per student, while public schools in the state spent an average of $11,500, which represents a savings of over $140 million to state taxpayers. And please note that cyber charter schools serve a higher percentage of children from low-income families and a disproportionate number of students come from low-performing districts.

(The type of students who are not being served by poorly performing districts, which are often little more than taxpayer-funded babysitting services for parents who have abdicated their child-rearing duties.)
DO YOU KNOW

Shippensburg, PA

#11 Apr 6, 2010
Dave wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really think that taking 40 or 50 kids out of a district reduces their cost?
I pay for the public school system. Use it or you are on your own.
Buy your own computer & software.
I pay for the school system too and am thankful that I have a choice. I choose to have my child in Cyber School, therefore the taxes I pay go to the Cyber School.

I've had my own computer long before my child started Cyber School. They sent us one anyway. It is not ours to keep, just like the books they give in Public School are not the students to keep. When we are done with schooling, we will send the computer back for the next student to use. Rather than purchasing new books every other year (and never having enough for all the students), one book can be published via Cyber School. Can you imagine Dave--a School District purchasing only one book and broadcasting that one book over the internet for hundreds and hundreds of students to use? The money alone saved on books could build a bigger, better stadium than the one they already built!!

Do I think taking 40 or 50 students out of the picture will reduce costs? Of course not, I'm not an idiot. If you did any research at all, you would know that the numbers are far greater than 40 or 50. But more importantly, those numbers will continue to grow to the point that people will have to start paying better attention to the way things are done in the Public Schools. How about it Dave, are you up for a Educational Revolution? I highly doubt it since you can't seem to think past yourself.

Just in case you feel the urge to mention it, I pay for my own internet also.
Concerned CASD Parent

Hanover, PA

#12 Apr 6, 2010
been wrote:
CASD has issues. Check their test scores and online ratings (Try GoodSchools.com )There have been multiple reports of violence in the middle school and junior high school a few resulting in hospital visits, but the police are not notified. The in-school administration turns a blind eye, the teachers are either a part of the problem or ignore it all together.
People can't just move to another district.
IF the district can't be competent then parents SHOULD have the right to provide for their children using other means.
I completely agree with you. My daughter just started at CAMS this year. I can't begin to tell you the problems I've had to deal with since she entered that school. She is highly intelligent child whose test scores all throughout elementary school placed her on the high end of the spectrum. She received A's and B's in every subject and was touted as one of the brightest children in her classes from 1st to 5th grade. Since entering CAMS, her grades have slipped and she's had to deal with teachers labeling her as a problem student simply because she is one to constantly ask questions and needs a certain level of structure in order to succeed. I've attended conferences with ALL of her teachers, the guidance counselor, and assistant principal which left me wondering how in the world some of these individuals arrived at the positions they hold. I've maintained contact via email, many of which are never answered. They rarely listened to anything I or my husband had to say, did not keep to the agreement we jointly set forth to keep her on the right track, and, after all was said and done, continued to give my child a hard time. The breaking point was when her English teacher point blank told me that there is "no room for creativity in the classroom." This was after she received a failing grade on a poem that she wrote simply because it lacked the "proper header." It's been ridiculous, to say the least.

In reference to Dave's remarks: Please do not worry about my family taking precious money away from your severely damaged school system by homeschooling our child. Instead, we've decided to move to another state entirely so that we will no longer have to pay taxes that support the Chambersburg School Dictatorship. Our children deserve a great deal more than the mediocre education that CASD is offering. It's very sad because I love Chambersburg...but I simply cannot deal with its seriously flawed approach to education any longer.
Sam

Mercersburg, PA

#13 Apr 6, 2010
The problem is public school systems have failed. If TSD's educational quality hadn't eroded into a slum school with little ciriculum value, high drop out rates and low test scores, parents who care about their children wouldn't look for alternatives. Assign the money to the student and allow the parents to choose where to send their students. In that way schools will have to get better to survive, if they don't they don't derserve to.
vim645

New Oxford, PA

#14 Apr 6, 2010
skool distrikt should send all problem students to sharter skhools
IN THE CELLAR

United States

#15 Apr 6, 2010
I put my child in private school. This is my chioce and I pay for it. Yes Dave I also pay taxes for public schools. A good education is one of the BEST things you can do for a child.
mommaof3

Chambersburg, PA

#16 Apr 7, 2010
Concerned CASD Parent wrote:
<quoted text>
I completely agree with you. My daughter just started at CAMS this year. I can't begin to tell you the problems I've had to deal with since she entered that school. She is highly intelligent child whose test scores all throughout elementary school placed her on the high end of the spectrum. She received A's and B's in every subject and was touted as one of the brightest children in her classes from 1st to 5th grade. Since entering CAMS, her grades have slipped and she's had to deal with teachers labeling her as a problem student simply because she is one to constantly ask questions and needs a certain level of structure in order to succeed. I've attended conferences with ALL of her teachers, the guidance counselor, and assistant principal which left me wondering how in the world some of these individuals arrived at the positions they hold. I've maintained contact via email, many of which are never answered. They rarely listened to anything I or my husband had to say, did not keep to the agreement we jointly set forth to keep her on the right track, and, after all was said and done, continued to give my child a hard time. The breaking point was when her English teacher point blank told me that there is "no room for creativity in the classroom." This was after she received a failing grade on a poem that she wrote simply because it lacked the "proper header." It's been ridiculous, to say the least.
In reference to Dave's remarks: Please do not worry about my family taking precious money away from your severely damaged school system by homeschooling our child. Instead, we've decided to move to another state entirely so that we will no longer have to pay taxes that support the Chambersburg School Dictatorship. Our children deserve a great deal more than the mediocre education that CASD is offering. It's very sad because I love Chambersburg...but I simply cannot deal with its seriously flawed approach to education any longer.
I totally agree with you about CASD. I cyber-schooled my daughter in K but then decided to send her to CASD thinking she was missing out. After spending 2 years in the elementary school I can't tell you how much I hate CASD. My daughter has high functioning autism and recieves SPEECH and OT through the school district. I want her to have more help but they refuse. Her teacher bullies her and says she a problem. I have ask for a TSS for her and even special classes and they are like" Sorry we are doing everything we can". I actually worked in the school district for about 6 months as an aide. And the things I saw would shock you. 4th graders bringing condoms to school. 2nd graders talking about being lesbians. And I actually heard a teacher tell a kid. "Well if you don't straighten up, I will get my paddle". I have seen more teachers bully kids then kids bullying kids. And when we would bring up to the teachers that there were kids bullying kids they would say. "oh well kids are kids". My kids hate school so much and it's not that they don't want to learn. They tell me it is so much chaos that the teachers can't control the kids in the classrooms. My kids will be cyber-schooled again next year;)
Dave

Chambersburg, PA

#17 Apr 7, 2010
Fordguy wrote:
Time, as usual, to inject some badly needed facts into the discussion.
<quoted text>
The wrong question. The proper question is whether cyber charter schools waste tax dollars or are represent a more efficient use of tax dollars. The evidence strongly points to the latter.
The cyber charter school suggests a better funding model for education - namely, the money should follow the CHILD, instead of being automatically being funneled to the school district. It should be painfully apparent that the "one size fits all" approach to public education is simply not working for a substantial number of students, both in Pennsylvania and throughout the nation.
Cyber charter schools also spend more on what is supposed to be the purpose of public education - actually educating the child.
School districts spend 11 times the total cost of cyber schools on construction and debt alone. School districts’ construction spending more than doubled from 1996-97 to 2006-06. Instructional spending increased 51 percent in this time.
The revenue that school districts are supposedly "losing" when a child goes to a cyber charter school (more on that latter) isn't necessarily being spent on improving education for the child. School districts with more revenue available spend a higher percentage of their funding on construction and a lower percentage on instruction.
<quoted text>
Again, the wrong question.
All school districts receive a 50 percent subsidy for charter school students in their district.
Thus, school districts are receiving money for a child that they no longer educate.
The key question - in regards to cost - is whether cyber charter schools SAVE TAXPAYERS MONEY.
On average, cyber charter schools spend only $8,300 per student, while public schools in the state spent an average of $11,500, which represents a savings of over $140 million to state taxpayers. And please note that cyber charter schools serve a higher percentage of children from low-income families and a disproportionate number of students come from low-performing districts.
(The type of students who are not being served by poorly performing districts, which are often little more than taxpayer-funded babysitting services for parents who have abdicated their child-rearing duties.)
So I ask one question & its wrong twice. Another brilliant anaysis.

To the school system that we provide, two things happen.

1) The school saves little or no money when one student leaves.

2) It costs the district money - even if they get a subsidy for part of it.

I don't know about you but if see an item with a 50% off price tag, it isn't free.

We provide a system of public education. Take it or leave it. If you find something better, then go for it - don't ask me to pay for it.

Sam

Greencastle, PA

#18 Apr 7, 2010
mommaof3 wrote:
<quoted text>
I totally agree with you about CASD. I cyber-schooled my daughter in K but then decided to send her to CASD thinking she was missing out. After spending 2 years in the elementary school I can't tell you how much I hate CASD. My daughter has high functioning autism and recieves SPEECH and OT through the school district. I want her to have more help but they refuse. Her teacher bullies her and says she a problem. I have ask for a TSS for her and even special classes and they are like" Sorry we are doing everything we can". I actually worked in the school district for about 6 months as an aide. And the things I saw would shock you. 4th graders bringing condoms to school. 2nd graders talking about being lesbians. And I actually heard a teacher tell a kid. "Well if you don't straighten up, I will get my paddle". I have seen more teachers bully kids then kids bullying kids. And when we would bring up to the teachers that there were kids bullying kids they would say. "oh well kids are kids". My kids hate school so much and it's not that they don't want to learn. They tell me it is so much chaos that the teachers can't control the kids in the classrooms. My kids will be cyber-schooled again next year;)
On behalf of the teachers, THANK YOU.
Parent of 3

Hagerstown, MD

#19 Apr 7, 2010
I have 3 students at different schools within CASD 2 with straight A's and one with solid B's and I'm thankful to each teacher they have had so far. Like I've mention before on this forum that it takes not only the district, community, teachers, parents but also the STUDENT to make it a successful learning experience. We as parents, administrators, teachers, community leaders set the standards for our youth so low and then when they fail we try to find someone to blame. Stop trying to lay the blame on our over sending administrators/school board members, unconcerned teachers, not involved parents, not interested community and frankly I don't care students on just one person it is everyones problem and it is not getting any better stop blaming and start looking for solutions!

“Don't tread on me!”

Since: Oct 08

Location hidden

#20 Apr 7, 2010
Dave wrote:
<quoted text>
Do you really think that taking 40 or 50 kids out of a district reduces their cost?
.
Cyber Schools.
Shalom
CVCS
Corpus Christi
other smaller schools
home schooling.

This is more than just "40 or 50".

But as someone has already stated, Davey boy is a dyed in the wool liberal. Their main goal is control as has been seen in the health care debate.

Anything that takes control away from the libs is bad.

They need to be defeated or America will be defeated.

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