Pa. Education Secretary: School distr...

Pa. Education Secretary: School districts can't blame charters

There are 18 comments on the York Dispatch story from Jun 7, 2011, titled Pa. Education Secretary: School districts can't blame charters. In it, York Dispatch reports that:

Department of Education Secretary Ronald Tomalis had a clear, direct message on Tuesday that might send chills up the spines of York City School District officials.

Join the discussion below, or Read more at York Dispatch.

X-Ray

AOL

#1 Jun 8, 2011
This is the same philosophy that does not allow us to blame Hitler for the Holocaust either. Stupid is as stupid does...... Do the charters take special education and discipline problem laden students too?
GOD

Philadelphia, PA

#2 Jun 8, 2011
Why give the public a choice. We should rely on a fail system that mirrors the goverment system.
Shut down the useless and replace them with more choices.
jpb

York, PA

#4 Jun 8, 2011
X-Ray wrote:
This is the same philosophy that does not allow us to blame Hitler for the Holocaust either. Stupid is as stupid does...... Do the charters take special education and discipline problem laden students too?
Those of us who are old enough can remember schools with no special education classes and a discipline program administered in the principal's office, at the end of a paddle. For the most part, the educational outcome was successful.
YouSaidIt

Dover, PA

#5 Jun 8, 2011
"Amazed at parental involvement"...that is the genuine difference between charter and public schools.
Money down the rat hole

York, PA

#6 Jun 8, 2011
YouSaidIt wrote:
"Amazed at parental involvement"...that is the genuine difference between charter and public schools.
Exactly, when parents (plural) care enough to spend 'big bucks' to send their children to private school/s, they surely will be constantly monitoring their progress. With the advent of charter schools and vouchers, kids are shifted from one school to the next until someone is able to 'attempt' to educate the garbage. If not, they are dumped back into the PUBLIC SCHOOL SYSTEM. When this fiasco fails, they will dump money into another 'no child left behind' folly. Kick a## and take names; PARENTING is the ONLY answer for a workable school system. And it would also help if a parent/s fed their own children over weekends and the SUMMER recess!!!
Idea

York, PA

#7 Jun 8, 2011
If these schools are so wonderful, then let them take only the students who aren't achieving, have limited English proficiency or are special ed and see what they can do.
Also, if this voucher system goes through then I would like to see vouchers be offered to individual students who aren't making progress (since all the big shots think it is the school that is failing and not the families of these children) in their current setting instead of the children who are making progress. If all the other districts are better than these city schools then let them have the underachieving/disruptive students instead of the students who are achieving and are in school to learn.

As far as parents being given a choice as to going to another school-- they do, it is called move to a district that you feel is successful. That is why I choose to live where I do. I wonder how taxpapers and parents in all of these non-city districts feel about all of these children being bused to their child's school and placed in their classroom. Won't be long before more districts are labeled as "failing".
seriously

Moorestown, NJ

#8 Jun 8, 2011
Charter Schools also have special ed and ELL (English Language Learner) students. Crispus Attucks YouthBuild Charter School is a good example of a charter school that accepts those students (lots of them, when you look at the stats/demographics) and helps them actually graduate with a high school diploma.

Since: Dec 08

Dover, PA

#9 Jun 8, 2011
Competition among schools is healthy ... both in athletics and academics! The only people who have a problem with charter schools are those who have a vested interest in their local education monopoly!
Teacher at LCS

York, PA

#10 Jun 8, 2011
Charter Schools are public schools. At Lincoln Charter, Helen Thackston and all other charters in Pennsylvania they have children from every demographic including ELL, and Special Education. I am a city resident, own my home and have earned the right to choose for my children. I should not have to move in order for my students to have a quality education. No other industry could have the failure rate the city schools have had and still be in business. The change needs to continue in all failing schools.
Teacher and parent

Lancaster, PA

#11 Jun 8, 2011
Yes, Many Charter schools have special education and ELL students. However, they can pick and choose who they take and that is a fact. Until charters accept ANY student that applies, then you cannot compare test scores. Until that time, it is comparing apples to oranges, folks!
Questioning

Seward, PA

#12 Jun 8, 2011
Teacher and parent wrote:
Yes, Many Charter schools have special education and ELL students. However, they can pick and choose who they take and that is a fact. Until charters accept ANY student that applies, then you cannot compare test scores. Until that time, it is comparing apples to oranges, folks!
Why reward the schools that discriminate against students with ADHD, autism, etc?

(Charter schools, for those in Sinsheim)

Why punish the schools that take them all and try to make to the best for those who have been dealt a hard hand in life?
Shadowchb

Emmaus, PA

#13 Jun 9, 2011
Poverty and total lack of parent involvement is a recipe for a poor result. If Piccolla really wanted to know why students are performing poorly and some parents want to move out of the school they are in, he would find out that it is outside conditions that are the root cause of the problem. Until someone in the legislature has the balls to tackle the problems head on in those school's neighborhoods, nothing will be solved. Vouchers don't solve anything, they just move the problem to somewhere else, kicking the can down the road so Piccolla won't take the blame for failing his legislative duty to provide for a thorough and efficient PUBLIC school system.
Just a thought

York, PA

#14 Jun 9, 2011
Teacher at LCS wrote:
Charter Schools are public schools. At Lincoln Charter, Helen Thackston and all other charters in Pennsylvania they have children from every demographic including ELL, and Special Education. I am a city resident, own my home and have earned the right to choose for my children. I should not have to move in order for my students to have a quality education. No other industry could have the failure rate the city schools have had and still be in business. The change needs to continue in all failing schools.
As it was said before, it is not the city schools that are failing, it is certain sudents and their families that are failing their children. If you are as good of a parent as you sound, your child would be successful regardless to whether they attend LCS or YCS. As a taxpayer, why should your child have to go to another school, why shouldn't the students who aren't progressing or are disruptive go to another school?

Just for the record, as a teacher in YCS, I have had students who were asked to leave Lincoln because of behaviors or because they can't meet their needs. Interestingly up until the past year or two, it was always close to PSSA time.
bre-bre

York, PA

#15 Jun 10, 2011
wow good job lincoln charter i wish that was me who got to part of the meeting
Teacher at LCS

York, PA

#16 Jun 11, 2011
Teacher and parent wrote:
Yes, Many Charter schools have special education and ELL students. However, they can pick and choose who they take and that is a fact. Until charters accept ANY student that applies, then you cannot compare test scores. Until that time, it is comparing apples to oranges, folks!
Lincoln Charter School does not pick and choose students of any kind. I am not sure where you get that information. Parents sign up and then there is a lottery for the open spaces. I believe the big difference is that students enter in kindergarten and stay until the graduate the fifth grade. We have 6 kindergarten rooms the spaces have always been filled with open enrollment from the immediate neighborhood children. We area public school and always have been.
Teacher at LCS

York, PA

#17 Jun 11, 2011
Just a thought wrote:
<quoted text>
As it was said before, it is not the city schools that are failing, it is certain sudents and their families that are failing their children. If you are as good of a parent as you sound, your child would be successful regardless to whether they attend LCS or YCS. As a taxpayer, why should your child have to go to another school, why shouldn't the students who aren't progressing or are disruptive go to another school?
Just for the record, as a teacher in YCS, I have had students who were asked to leave Lincoln because of behaviors or because they can't meet their needs. Interestingly up until the past year or two, it was always close to PSSA time.
We never just kicked kids out. We have to follow the same laws as you. Just becasue parents and stduents say it does nto make it true. Kudos to you for having this discussion. I actually raised four children in the city. My two oldest went to Christian School of York for Elementary and the two youngest spent half of their time at Devers and half of their time at Lincoln. They all four went to Smith Middle School, and my middle child graduated from York High. I agree my children would have been successful anywhere because; I am their mother and failure was not an option for them or their teachers.“This is a no excuse zone.”
I do not know what school you are at, but there is a huge difference among the elementary city schools and Smith Middle School is nothing but a failure producing machine. I live a block away from Smith Middle Schooland another child was jumped on the way home a week ago and taken to the hospital. I have called that school for the last ten years if not longer asking for teachers to be posted on the hill. Their answer has always is the teachers leave immediately that cannot do that.
There is the difference between LCS and YCS there is no union telling us what we can do. If there is a need we solve it. We do not stand there and say “not my job”. I am sure you are a great teacher because you at least want to be informed enough to have an opinion. I am mad that my taxes continue to go up in the city and they keep cutting teachers, I am mad they overfill classrooms, and do not value the arts. My children had me as their advocate, many children do have parents who can or will demand excellence, and so they need their teachers to demand change. Your unions who had teachers back early on or now are just cash machines taking teachers pay and not saving their jobs. I will look forward your response.
Teacher and parent

Chicago, IL

#18 Jun 11, 2011
Again- public schools have to take whoever walks in the door: students coming out of placements, detention centers, jail, treatment facilities, you name it. Tell you what Charter schools-next time they get one of these students, the public school will send them your way! I'm sure you will work your magic on them.
Eggman

York, PA

#19 Jun 12, 2011
Just remember, the owners of the charter schools are not educators. They are business men.

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