4/07: Letters to the editor

4/07: Letters to the editor

There are 159 comments on the Orlando Sentinel story from Apr 6, 2009, titled 4/07: Letters to the editor. In it, Orlando Sentinel reports that:

I read with interest the article in Sunday's Sentinel about the clueless kids who are controlling air traffic at Orlando International Airport .

Join the discussion below, or Read more at Orlando Sentinel.

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Michael Grant

Apopka, FL

#141 Apr 15, 2009
change agent wrote:
<quoted text>
when governments control industry for what they believe is "the greater good", by definition, that is facism if the companies are privately owned. it is communisim when the business is actually owned by the government. that is effectively what TARP 1 and TARP 2 are about - not to mention
Okay, so what is it when business come to the government asking for handout? Welfare?

Your arguements are faulty. The government did NOT go to the banks and demand they do anything. The banks went to the government asking for assistance (otherwise they'd be bankrupt -- which is yet ANOTHER form of assistance).
Republicans Have No Honor

Palm Bay, FL

#142 Apr 15, 2009
change agent wrote:
<quoted text>
no one said the workers had to stay employed with an oppressive company.
When all companies are oppressive...

Since: Apr 08

Butler, New Jersey

#143 Apr 16, 2009
Margo wrote:
See how far back you have to go to find a Dem who didn't kowtow to the Soviets?
What does time matter when one has the "us and them" football game mentality that is favored by Republicans. Imagine a Large corporation being successful with two opposing groups like we have developed in our country. Do you think they would be successful? This mentality is a big part fo the problem with our government. We should all work together toward a common goal, not the "Tea Bag" mentality that is being played out right now. Look how silly it is for the Democrats to sit on one side of the chambers and the Republicans to sit on the other? It is no wonder America is in the shape that it is. This is ridiculus, and we follow their same childish behavior as well. If our military acted the same way, it would be a failure as well.
change agent

Leesburg, FL

#144 Apr 16, 2009
Michael Grant wrote:
<quoted text>
Okay, so what is it when business come to the government asking for handout? Welfare?
Your arguements are faulty. The government did NOT go to the banks and demand they do anything. The banks went to the government asking for assistance (otherwise they'd be bankrupt -- which is yet ANOTHER form of assistance).
what is it called? groveling. i don't agree with it. when the govt says yes, buys into those groveling CEO's arguments and then not only gives them the money but prohibits them from giving it back is smacks of fascism
change agent

Leesburg, FL

#145 Apr 16, 2009
Republicans Have No Honor wrote:
<quoted text>
When all companies are oppressive...
all companies ar oppressive. all of them. guess you don't work. so maybe the oppresive companies should all go out of business. then where would you get your job?
Margo

Sanford, FL

#146 Apr 16, 2009
2008bill wrote:
<quoted text>
What does time matter when one has the "us and them" football game mentality that is favored by Republicans. Imagine a Large corporation being successful with two opposing groups like we have developed in our country. Do you think they would be successful? This mentality is a big part fo the problem with our government. We should all work together toward a common goal, not the "Tea Bag" mentality that is being played out right now. Look how silly it is for the Democrats to sit on one side of the chambers and the Republicans to sit on the other? It is no wonder America is in the shape that it is. This is ridiculus, and we follow their same childish behavior as well. If our military acted the same way, it would be a failure as well.
Typical Liberal thinking, dissent BAD, everybody must proceed in lockstep. No 'Diverstiy' in opinion tolerated!

Since: Apr 08

Butler, New Jersey

#147 Apr 17, 2009
Margo wrote:
<quoted text>
Typical Liberal thinking, dissent BAD, everybody must proceed in lockstep. No 'Diverstiy' in opinion tolerated!
Diversity in opinion is certainly welcome. Colaboration, brainstorming, discussion, group process...all these things are welcome. Football memtality, is not welcome. Football mentality is what we have. Case in point, the Tea Baggers! Did you know that the majority of Regan's Term the upper tax rat was at 50%? Did you know that the upper range of income started at 106,000 instead of 250,000? did you know that the lower range at 11% ended at 2100 of income? I bet not. This is the problem with the foot ball mentality.

If looking for truth, instead of believing the republican rhetoric is the typpical liberal mentality, then YES you are right on that!
Margo

Sanford, FL

#148 Apr 21, 2009
The Liberal idea of coming together is for everybody to believe as they do. Diversity of skin color and gender YES. Diversity of opinion HELL NO!

You may genuinely believe you are welcoming, bill, but trust me, your party is NOT.
The Forgotten Man

Miami, FL

#149 Apr 21, 2009
2008bill wrote:
<quoted text>
Diversity in opinion is certainly welcome. Colaboration, brainstorming, discussion, group process...all these things are welcome. Football memtality, is not welcome. Football mentality is what we have. Case in point, the Tea Baggers! Did you know that the majority of Regan's Term the upper tax rat was at 50%? Did you know that the upper range of income started at 106,000 instead of 250,000? did you know that the lower range at 11% ended at 2100 of income? I bet not. This is the problem with the foot ball mentality.
If looking for truth, instead of believing the republican rhetoric is the typpical liberal mentality, then YES you are right on that!
It is really great the you preach this "all welcoming" message but then troubling a few words later have to start call people degrading names. You might want to go out and actually educate yourself about the TEA party (instead of plagiarizing MSNBC).

Did you know that the bottom 42% of tax payers don't actually pay income tax and most of them get EITC payment (nothing in but they get a refund)?

Did you know that the top 25% pay 86% of all income tax?

How is that fair? And Obama is going to push it further a skew (48% no income tax and who knows where the top end ends up).

Actually there is no such thing as fair when it come to progressive government tax policy.

(is the 106,000 vs 250,000 in adjusted dollars?)

Look who is holding the football now...
Michael Grant

Apopka, FL

#150 Apr 21, 2009
The Forgotten Man wrote:
<quoted text>
It is really great the you preach this "all welcoming" message but then troubling a few words later have to start call people degrading names. You might want to go out and actually educate yourself about the TEA party (instead of plagiarizing MSNBC).
Did you know that the bottom 42% of tax payers don't actually pay income tax and most of them get EITC payment (nothing in but they get a refund)?
Did you know that the top 25% pay 86% of all income tax?
How is that fair? And Obama is going to push it further a skew (48% no income tax and who knows where the top end ends up).
Actually there is no such thing as fair when it come to progressive government tax policy.
(is the 106,000 vs 250,000 in adjusted dollars?)
Look who is holding the football now...
Yawn.

Did you know that the bottom 42% of people don't pay income taxes?

Yep. But let's play fair. How many of them are housewife, unemployed, etc? How many *HAVE* an income.

My mom does. She doesn't work and is living off her investments (64). You want her to pay taxes...when she's not making any money?

Oh, I know, how about my brother. He's not working either (and not taking unemployment). He made nothing but you want to take money FROM him?

People with incomes pay taxes. It's why employment numbers are important. It's why Clinton said "It's the economy, stupid."

And you can whine about Obama, but he put the Iraq war on budget (Bush was running with it off budget).

I rather had a man give me honest bad numbers than someone who gives me fake good ones.
The Forgotten Man

Miami, FL

#151 Apr 21, 2009
Michael,

1) where did I ever say anything about Bush?

2) did you see where I said 42% of tax payers?

Not all people that earn income pay income tax. The bottom 42% of earners currently don't pay any income tax. Not only that but most of those people get EITC. So to recap, not only do they not pay tax on their income but they end up getting a refund.

Because we try so hard to make things fair we actually make things worse. The govenment can't make things fair...in fact our constitution only give us the guarantee of equal opportunity, not equal out come.

Obama is spending money like made (Bush x 4...maybe x6 by the end of the week) and has pledge not to raise takes on people making under 250k. So guess what, the load carried by the top end is going to get larger and the load carried by the others is going to smaller. Fair?

If we continue in this path we are not making the poor richer just the rich poorer. Eventually you get to the point there is no incentives left. We are all equal.

We the tax payers (at all levels) can't afford the government we have grown. We need to get to a more sensible (dare I say sustainable) budget and a tax code that treats us more equal.

Obama is going looking to 100 million dollars from budget (for the coming year)...that is how much we currently spend every 2 hours on interest on the current debt! In the same week has proposed giving the IMF 100 billion dollars.

Well at least he is honest...
The Forgotten Man

Miami, FL

#152 Apr 21, 2009
sorry...edit

"Obama is going looking to 100 million dollars from budget (for the coming year)...that is how much we currently spend every 2 hours on interest on the current debt! In the same week has proposed giving the IMF 100 billion dollars."

Obama is looking for 100 million dollars for the budget...

Since: Apr 08

Butler, New Jersey

#153 Apr 21, 2009
Margo wrote:
The Liberal idea of coming together is for everybody to believe as they do. Diversity of skin color and gender YES. Diversity of opinion HELL NO!
You may genuinely believe you are welcoming, bill, but trust me, your party is NOT.
I do not sit in the Senage and in the Congress so I can not make a statement about who is right and who is wrong. I think both sides are wrong if they can not work together like is normal for a successful organization/system. It defies all the management skills that leaders are supposed to emulate.

Since: Apr 08

Butler, New Jersey

#154 Apr 21, 2009
The Forgotten Man wrote:
<quoted text>
It is really great the you preach this "all welcoming" message but then troubling a few words later have to start call people degrading names. You might want to go out and actually educate yourself about the TEA party (instead of plagiarizing MSNBC).
...
I came up with my own references and logic, "forgotten"..I don't need MSNBC. Perhaps you are the mouthpiece for FOX NEWS and think that I mirror your style of drivel.
The Forgotten Man wrote:
<quoted text>

Not the case. Did you know that the bottom 42% of tax payers don't actually pay income tax and most of them get EITC payment (nothing in but they get a refund)?...
Actually about 60 percent of the Single with Children , and 65% of the head of household types do not pay taxes. I am not sure what you consider the bottom 42% is in terms of cut off. All I know is that I only had $47,000 in taxable income this year and still had to pay 13.9 percent of that in Federal taxes which ended up being over $6,000 dollars. BTW Reagan was the one that instituted the EITC payment.
The Forgotten Man wrote:
<quoted text>
Did you know that the top 25% pay 86% of all income tax? How is that fair?....
Under Regan's plan anyone making making over $106,000 paid 50% of the amount above, is that fair to you? Obama is going to bring back the 2001 39.6% for taxpayers who make over $250,000. I think that is much better than your man Reagan
The Forgotten Man wrote:
<quoted text>

And Obama is going to push it further a skew (48% no income tax and who knows where the top end ends up).

Actually there is no such thing as fair when it come to progressive government tax policy.

(is the 106,000 vs 250,000 in adjusted dollars?)
Look who is holding the football now...
Now you are using smoke and mirrors. Lets just keep it simple. Which is worse? 50% or $1000 or 39.6% of $1000? You see the dollars are dollars no matter what year you are in and 50% is half of your money no matter what year you are in. In fact under Republican presidents and some Democrats, those rates have even been higher. I think you are getting confused with the facts. Why not go to www.ntu.org again and bone up on who had the highest tax rates again. Also look up who borrowed and spent the most, the Democrats or the Republicans? Let me know what you come up with. thanks

Bill
The Forgotten Man

Delray Beach, FL

#155 Apr 21, 2009
Bill, You are so stuck on the Republican/Democrat thing.

If you don't understand the difference in adjusted dollars...

Anyway what we have is a spending problem. Once we get that taken care we can talk about the tax fairness issue.

Since: Apr 08

Butler, New Jersey

#156 Apr 22, 2009
The Forgotten Man wrote:
Bill, You are so stuck on the Republican/Democrat thing.
If you don't understand the difference in adjusted dollars...
Anyway what we have is a spending problem. Once we get that taken care we can talk about the tax fairness issue.
If you look at the history of spending you will see that we have had a spending problem for many year. For example our cost overruns in defense have been 300 billion per year, and this in the past has been hidden. We have a weapons system that is spread over 44 states that is not being used at all right now (135/F-22s) and we have two wars going on. These are the kinds of issues that Obama and Gates are working on to cut spending. This has nothing to do with your adjusted dollars it has to do with apeasing the big companies and spreading the "wealth" of spending over 44 states for political reasons rather than efficiency reasons. You are taking pot shots at Obama without reading up on how he is going to make the change that he speaks about. Adjusted dollars mean nothing because People in general have adjusted their WANTS to become NEEDS and they do not live by their means because they want instant gratification. Have you gone out to buy your $1500+ HD wide Screen TF Yet. You better hurry it is something that we all NEED! LOL!

Since: Apr 08

Butler, New Jersey

#157 Apr 22, 2009
TF=TV
Michael Grant

Apopka, FL

#158 Apr 22, 2009
The Forgotten Man wrote:
Michael,

2) did you see where I said 42% of tax payers?
Not all people that earn income pay income tax. The bottom 42% of earners currently don't pay any income tax. Not only that but most of those people get EITC. So to recap, not only do they not pay tax on their income but they end up getting a refund.
1) It's not a refund, we're giving them money.

2) We're approx 300 million in the US. 42% of 300 million is approx. 126 million. In 2007, 24 million received any EITC (not most).

3) EITC requires a child, care for a child, combat pay or some other special cases (hurricanes...really, you get EITC for sitting through a hurricane...sigh)

I'm *STILL* arguing that the VAST majority of that 126 million HAVE NO MONEY. You can tax the snot outta them all you want, they don't HAVE any.(They are housewives, elderly, clergy, fighting forces, handicapped, etc). They have no money.
The Forgotten Man wrote:
...
Obama is spending money like made (Bush x 4...maybe x6 by the end of the week) and has pledge not to raise takes on people making under 250k.
Yep, Obama is spending a lot of cash. He's got that TARP thing...wait...nope, that was under Bush.(Off Budget -- so of COURSE Bush's budget looks good)

And there's that Iraq war..wait...off-budget...again , Bush's budget looks good.

Are you sure of that 4x to 6x? It looks a LOT like he's spending what Bush was...he just put it on budget instead of off.
The Forgotten Man wrote:
So guess what, the load carried by the top end is going to get larger and the load carried by the others is going to smaller. Fair?
If we continue in this path we are not making the poor richer just the rich poorer. Eventually you get to the point there is no incentives left. We are all equal.
We the tax payers (at all levels) can't afford the government we have grown. We need to get to a more sensible (dare I say sustainable) budget and a tax code that treats us more equal.
You had me going pretty good until your 3rd paragraph.

You can't have more equal unless you have equal income..which kills that whole incentive thing.

A lot of people argue that the 1950's were great times...(they aren't minorities, mind you)..but the 1950 had some of the highest tax rates and the strongest middle class.

We've been killing the middle class to give tax breaks to the richest individuals (and to corporations). We've laxed our regulatory constraints until banks are failing. We don't investigate and prosecute ponszi schemas (Madoff).

When are we going to start enforcing some rules again?

Want to get rich? Start a company. Do well. No one said it would be EASY.

Since: Apr 08

Butler, New Jersey

#159 Apr 23, 2009
Michael Grant wrote:
<quoted text>
1) It's not a refund, we're giving them money.
2) We're approx 300 million in the US. 42% of 300 million is approx. 126 million. In 2007, 24 million received any EITC (not most).
3) EITC requires a child, care for a child, combat pay or some other special cases (hurricanes...really, you get EITC for sitting through a hurricane...sigh)
I'm *STILL* arguing that the VAST majority of that 126 million HAVE NO MONEY. You can tax the snot outta them all you want, they don't HAVE any.(They are housewives, elderly, clergy, fighting forces, handicapped, etc). They have no money.
<quoted text>
Yep, Obama is spending a lot of cash. He's got that TARP thing...wait...nope, that was under Bush.(Off Budget -- so of COURSE Bush's budget looks good)
And there's that Iraq war..wait...off-budget...again , Bush's budget looks good.
Are you sure of that 4x to 6x? It looks a LOT like he's spending what Bush was...he just put it on budget instead of off.
<quoted text>
You had me going pretty good until your 3rd paragraph.
You can't have more equal unless you have equal income..which kills that whole incentive thing.
A lot of people argue that the 1950's were great times...(they aren't minorities, mind you)..but the 1950 had some of the highest tax rates and the strongest middle class.
We've been killing the middle class to give tax breaks to the richest individuals (and to corporations). We've laxed our regulatory constraints until banks are failing. We don't investigate and prosecute ponszi schemas (Madoff).
When are we going to start enforcing some rules again?
Want to get rich? Start a company. Do well. No one said it would be EASY.
Great Post Michael. Perhaps "forgotten Man" FORGOT to whine about the 14 states in which school teachers do not pay into the social security, and the thousands of police and firefighters, as well as state workers who do not pay into social security. That's a lot of people making money and not paying. Realizing that they don't take out from it either, but who does that leave paying for the people who did not pay into it, but still draw from it now? The "Forgotten Man" has a lot of work yet to do, trying to make all these programs equitable. His job is never done!

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