The real education problem

Dec 26, 2008 Full story: www.gastongazette.com 21

The Dec. 4 Gaston Gazette editorial on school vouchers and the Obama school decision misses the very real problems our school children face right here at home.

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Since: Oct 07

Location hidden

#1 Dec 26, 2008
Weeeell said Mr. Toole, weeell said!!!

It tis a shame that that our education is in a current state...I dooo hope the new president will banquish the failed Bush no child left behind policies...

I will be watching DC the next several months with optimistic anticipation..

“I Seek Not?”

Since: Aug 08

Belmont

#2 Dec 26, 2008
Money, Consulting and Big Thinkers is what got us here.

We don't need more money unless we keep letting developers overcrowd our districts.

We need real leadership and real change.

We need teacher empowerment. Bottom-Up.

Top-Down does not work. It is what has gotten out of hand. Too many chiefs....

The same economic realities affect schools and banks. Ex: Wachovia, bigger and bigger until it became unmanageable and out of control. Our school systems have become the same way. The larger the district; the more obvious the problems although the problems are the same regardless of size.

The schools districts payroll; LOOK AT IT FOR THE PAST TEN YEARS.

Administrators. More Admin staff. Psychologists, Behavior specialists, specialization, Language pathologists, etc., etc. Everybody with a better mousetrap or theory to "teach" kids. We go out and buy our kids the most expensive books in the world when a $1 paperback would do better with the right teacher. An empowered teacher (which is far beyond my scope here).

Our schools have received more and more funding. They have received more and more staff. IE. Our hospitals, case in point, we spend more money than any other western nation and get lower quality care. Same as the schools. IT IS THE SYSTEM.

You could take every classroom in the county down to private school teacher-student ratios and still not have any numerical improvement.

IT IS THE SYSTEM. The same system in the government agencies. The same system in jails. The same system in private companies. The same system in the BANKS. On and on and on.

We have the same theories at work in all our societal machinations.

Everybody read the same BOOK.

Think about the difference in Health Care now versus thirty years ago.

NO HUMANS. No humanity.

The schools are simply a very clear and early indicator.

It will change OR this country will cease in your lifetimes.

Read your history.

Just that simple:)
justsayin

Concord, NC

#3 Dec 26, 2008
BardDeBelmont wrote:
Money, Consulting and Big Thinkers is what got us here.
We don't need more money unless we keep letting developers overcrowd our districts.
We need real leadership and real change.
We need teacher empowerment. Bottom-Up.
Top-Down does not work. It is what has gotten out of hand. Too many chiefs....
The same economic realities affect schools and banks. Ex: Wachovia, bigger and bigger until it became unmanageable and out of control. Our school systems have become the same way. The larger the district; the more obvious the problems although the problems are the same regardless of size.
The schools districts payroll; LOOK AT IT FOR THE PAST TEN YEARS.
Administrators. More Admin staff. Psychologists, Behavior specialists, specialization, Language pathologists, etc., etc. Everybody with a better mousetrap or theory to "teach" kids. We go out and buy our kids the most expensive books in the world when a $1 paperback would do better with the right teacher. An empowered teacher (which is far beyond my scope here).
Our schools have received more and more funding. They have received more and more staff. IE. Our hospitals, case in point, we spend more money than any other western nation and get lower quality care. Same as the schools. IT IS THE SYSTEM.
You could take every classroom in the county down to private school teacher-student ratios and still not have any numerical improvement.
IT IS THE SYSTEM. The same system in the government agencies. The same system in jails. The same system in private companies. The same system in the BANKS. On and on and on.
We have the same theories at work in all our societal machinations.
Everybody read the same BOOK.
Think about the difference in Health Care now versus thirty years ago.
NO HUMANS. No humanity.
The schools are simply a very clear and early indicator.
It will change OR this country will cease in your lifetimes.
Read your history.
Just that simple:)
I agree. We don't need more new money...just better management of the money that is already being spent. We need administrators who inspire and who have the power to get rid of mediocre teachers and we need to pay the excellent teachers what they are worth. The money is there if they would get rid of the middle level management who keep office hours but never have an impact on the classroom.
justsayin

Concord, NC

#4 Dec 26, 2008
Teachers need accountability and competition. There is no one gunning for their jobs so they continue performing at or below acceptable levels.
There is also no one holding us truly accountable for scores. This would never fly in any other industry but teachers get extremely offended when you ask them why their scores are low or what they intend to do about it.

“I Seek Not?”

Since: Aug 08

Belmont

#5 Dec 27, 2008
justsayin wrote:
Teachers need accountability and competition. There is no one gunning for their jobs so they continue performing at or below acceptable levels.
There is also no one holding us truly accountable for scores. This would never fly in any other industry but teachers get extremely offended when you ask them why their scores are low or what they intend to do about it.
AND this says so much.

Yes thy Bard is never wrong which most would see as a gift but life has taught me it is the worst curse of all.

Teachers (good ones) should be offended which ask about test scores because they have their own measurement tools based on direct and daily observations.

Teachers as a rule are not monetarily motivated and the market has generally priced their compensation correctly although some incentive pay should be used to supplement based on performance constructed at the local level with national and state guidance.

IT IS not the teachers fault nor the parents. That is exactly what you have been instructed by the Ministry of Truth to think about the problem.

The biggest financial mistake the schools make is based on ONE item: Building & Construction.

Yep, think about it. The same bugaboo everywhere.

Hospitals? Yep. Anybody ever wonder what happened to County-owned Hospitals? One explanation is that they WERE too little to compete. The other reason is it was a good way to transfer millions of government assets to companies owned by politicians. ITS TRUE.
Roads? Yep.

Them greedy old developers screwing the tax payers without them knowing it cause they make the rules in the Houses of legislature.

Follow the money right to their pockets just about every time.

NOW, HOW do this apply to Belmont?

Look and Think.
GET a life

United States

#6 Jan 2, 2009
BardDeBelmont wrote:
<quoted text>
AND this says so much.
Yes thy Bard is never wrong which most would see as a gift but life has taught me it is the worst curse of all.
Teachers (good ones) should be offended which ask about test scores because they have their own measurement tools based on direct and daily observations.
Teachers as a rule are not monetarily motivated and the market has generally priced their compensation correctly although some incentive pay should be used to supplement based on performance constructed at the local level with national and state guidance.
IT IS not the teachers fault nor the parents. That is exactly what you have been instructed by the Ministry of Truth to think about the problem.
The biggest financial mistake the schools make is based on ONE item: Building & Construction.
Yep, think about it. The same bugaboo everywhere.
Hospitals? Yep. Anybody ever wonder what happened to County-owned Hospitals? One explanation is that they WERE too little to compete. The other reason is it was a good way to transfer millions of government assets to companies owned by politicians. ITS TRUE.
Roads? Yep.
Them greedy old developers screwing the tax payers without them knowing it cause they make the rules in the Houses of legislature.
Follow the money right to their pockets just about every time.
NOW, HOW do this apply to Belmont?
Look and Think.
Bard..you must have killed 2 hours of your life on this topic..
do your think you're writing for a newpaper ..or a successful blog site?
you're not..
HOW SAD it is that you wrote all that crap..
and 3 people will read it..
if you want more exposure..
just send spam emails with your "brilliant take" on things..
you WASTED 45 minutes of your life to compose an answer to a MEANINGLESS QUESTION..that only 3-4 people MAX...will read..
you have a SAD LIFE my friend..

TAKE my advise...
log off the computer...and live
Keemosabee

Belmont, NC

#7 Jan 6, 2009
bs
abbie

New Haven, CT

#9 Jan 16, 2009
justsayin wrote:
Teachers need accountability and competition. There is no one gunning for their jobs so they continue performing at or below acceptable levels.
There is also no one holding us truly accountable for scores. This would never fly in any other industry but teachers get extremely offended when you ask them why their scores are low or what they intend to do about it.
This is so true, you can see this on these boards. Educators get nasty when they feel they need to make the same sacrifices as the rest of the taxpayers.

“I Seek Not?”

Since: Aug 08

Belmont

#10 Jan 17, 2009
Please people, Thy Bard is trying to have serious conversation with hisself.

Quiet Pleez.
abbie

New Haven, CT

#11 Jan 18, 2009
justsayin wrote:
<quoted text>
I agree. We don't need more new money...just better management of the money that is already being spent. We need administrators who inspire and who have the power to get rid of mediocre teachers and we need to pay the excellent teachers what they are worth. The money is there if they would get rid of the middle level management who keep office hours but never have an impact on the classroom.
The problem is all the 'entitlements' written into the contracts. The union should go. Educators need to understand that all the other taxpayers are strapped. We can't afford to carry you anymore. Not only should educators have no pay increase for several years (like most of us had to endure) but they need to pay for more of their own expensive retirement benefits. I do feel educators work hard, but so don't the rest of us, and we don't have guaranteed raises, guaranteed jobs (tenure), summers off, and retirement health benefits subsidized by all taxpayers. We need to take back our towns and have more of a say. If educators agreed with this, they may actually save the job of a colleague.
justsayin

Concord, NC

#12 Jan 18, 2009
abbie wrote:
<quoted text>
I do feel educators work hard, but so don't the rest of us, and we don't have guaranteed raises, guaranteed jobs (tenure), summers off, and retirement health benefits subsidized by all taxpayers. We need to take back our towns and have more of a say. If educators agreed with this, they may actually save the job of a colleague.
Teachers do not get summers off. We are only contracted for 10 months of the year and have to save our money or have our salary spread out over the year by the school system or the bank. We also have to get CEU's on our own time and at our own expense during the summer.

The problem with your argument is that if you do not make the pay and benefits you will not attract good job candidates. It's a career not a charity.

The best way to fix education (among many other things) is to pay teachers what they are really worth and hold them accountable for the growth and development of the students in their classrooms.
FYI

Stanfield, NC

#13 Jan 18, 2009
There is no teacher's union in NC.
justsayin

Concord, NC

#14 Jan 18, 2009
You are right, FYI.

No union here. NC is a right to work state.
Wondering

Rockingham, NC

#15 Jan 18, 2009
I've never understood why my child needs a flat screen tv and cable in his classroom at Belmont Central.

“I Seek Not?”

Since: Aug 08

Belmont

#16 Jan 19, 2009
Teachers are priced in the market according to qualities and certification required for the position.

The traditional argument for teacher's pay rests on the principle of progression. After five years, ten, twenty and so on. The point being a person is stuck and is not upwardly mobile.

This problem persists because without any other variables, the person is still doing the same thing everyday after 5, 10 or 20 years.

In other professions, you advance in position and salary. In teaching, you progress out of the central role of teaching or you do not progress on a salary basis other than time progression standard.

Hence, the perceived salary inequity.

Teacher pay is not the problem.

Management. The bureaucracy is the problem. The apparatus of the Pharisees.

Revert control of funds back to States.

Overall management and control at the State level.

Counties/LEAs representing districts reporting to the State.

Gut the system.

Fire about half of the administrative staff and all of the consultants.

Take out all social programs, especially those centered on Psychiatry.

Pay for everything and still have money leftover by SLASHING BUILDINGS & GROUNDS budgets.(OINK-OINK)

But at the end of the day...Management.

Poor, poor management.

Its all in the budgets. Paperwork, that is what your paying for. And waste through big fat contracts to OUTSIDE VENDORS.

“I Seek Not?”

Since: Aug 08

Belmont

#17 Jan 19, 2009
Here's how it works:

Congress passes the Law (NCLB) then the President signs only the parts he likes into effect.

They give it to the Dept of Education, who administers the parts it likes while realizing they don't have the "assets" to do the job BUT they got money.

Then they call some friends (former lobbyists/educators) who just happen to have consulting businesses that CAN do the job for a set contract price.

The rest...is in the Bank.

“I Seek Not?”

Since: Aug 08

Belmont

#18 Jan 19, 2009
A clue?

Every LAW they pass COSTS money.

Every LAW they pass GIVES money.

Where does the money go?

Every piece of paper costs money. Where does it come from. Where should it go.

Where did ALL that LOTTERY money go?

The only loser is the apparition of the American Taxpayer that doesn't exist.
FYI

Stanfield, NC

#19 Jan 19, 2009
Wondering wrote:
I've never understood why my child needs a flat screen tv and cable in his classroom at Belmont Central.
They don't "need" it - it enhances. Cable is provided free to the classroom. It has news channels, PBS, C-SPAN, etc.... Flat screen? Easier to see.

Also, with an inexpensive AverKey device you can easily hook a computer to the TV and use it for the Unitedstreaming service available to all teachers in this county - thousands of educational clips to complement learning objectives.

And, teachers can use PowerPoint and project it on the wide screen for students to easily see.

Instead of griping about it - you should be thankful your child has the technology in the class!
justsayin

Concord, NC

#20 Jan 19, 2009
Wondering wrote:
I've never understood why my child needs a flat screen tv and cable in his classroom at Belmont Central.
Children these days are inundated with media and technology. That's how they learn. We learned with books because that's all there was. We use the tools they will need to compete in the global market place to teach them. Cable in the Classroom is an invaluable tool to provide instruction on current events but history, geography and science lessons.

Here's an idea...go to your child's classroom. Watch a lesson or two. Be grateful and thank your child's teacher for his/her planning around your child's learning style.
justsayin

Concord, NC

#21 Jan 19, 2009
BardDeBelmont wrote:
Teachers are priced in the market according to qualities and certification required for the position.
The traditional argument for teacher's pay rests on the principle of progression. After five years, ten, twenty and so on. The point being a person is stuck and is not upwardly mobile.
This problem persists because without any other variables, the person is still doing the same thing everyday after 5, 10 or 20 years.
In other professions, you advance in position and salary. In teaching, you progress out of the central role of teaching or you do not progress on a salary basis other than time progression standard.
Hence, the perceived salary inequity.
Teacher pay is not the problem.
Management. The bureaucracy is the problem. The apparatus of the Pharisees.
Revert control of funds back to States.
Overall management and control at the State level.
Counties/LEAs representing districts reporting to the State.
Gut the system.
Fire about half of the administrative staff and all of the consultants.
Take out all social programs, especially those centered on Psychiatry.
Pay for everything and still have money leftover by SLASHING BUILDINGS & GROUNDS budgets.(OINK-OINK)
But at the end of the day...Management.
Poor, poor management.
Its all in the budgets. Paperwork, that is what your paying for. And waste through big fat contracts to OUTSIDE VENDORS.
I agree about poor management. I still believe merit pay for teachers is called for.

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